Autumn Internationals 2013

[TheFergmeister]

What do you think the team will be for the 3 games?

[TheFergmeister]

I would like to see:
1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. O'Connell
6. O'Brien
7. O'Donnell
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Marshall
13. B.O.D
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
SUBS:
16. Sherry
17. Kilcoyne
18. Fitzpatrick/Hagan
19. Henderson
20. O'Mahoney
21. Marmion
22. Madigan
23. Gilroy

O'Connell as captain.

[ribs]

Would like it to be based on form in the 1st two rounds of the hec. First 2 games are joe's chance to experiment and develop a squad so that injuries in proper games are no longer an excuse. Bnz game to have strongest team - but only that game as we are a season behind everyone else in the world cup cycle.

[hugonaut]

I would like to see:
1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. O'Connell
6. O'Brien
7. O'Donnell
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Marshall
13. B.O.D
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
SUBS:
16. Sherry
17. Kilcoyne
18. Fitzpatrick/Hagan
19. Henderson
20. O'Mahoney
21. Marmion
22. Madigan
23. Gilroy

O'Connell as captain.

A very decent team. I think I'd go for O'Mahony at No6 and O'Brien at No7, as the former gives an exceptionally good lineout option [which would squeeze him ahead of O'Donnell in my book].

Very tough call to make on the No23 jersey. McFadden had a great year last season and ended it with a test hat-trick while Earls is a great broken field runner and gives better cover at No13 [and arguably fullback] than Gilroy. Luke Fitz is a wildcard – his comeback in January of last season was pretty sensational, so ideally he'll hit the ground running again in a few weeks.

[Munsterboy]

I would like to see:
1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. O'Connell
6. O'Brien
7. O'Donnell
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Marshall
13. B.O.D
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
SUBS:
16. Sherry
17. Kilcoyne
18. Fitzpatrick/Hagan
19. Henderson
20. O'Mahoney
21. Marmion
22. Madigan
23. Gilroy

O'Connell as captain.

On recent form I'd be happy enough with that but as Hugonaut says, the back row and no.23 are tough calls.

Come to think of it, the back three could be a bit of a toss up. Kearney hasn't been infantastic form for a while and could face a challenge from Zebo for the FB slot, making room for Earls, Gilroy, Fitz or McFadden on the wing.

Hooker is the other position that is difficult to be sure of. Rory Best could come back into form. He was playing well up to and including the Wales game last season. He's far from finished at the top level.

[JB1973]

from an outsiders view point

1) McFadden has to be on the bench, earles can play lost of positions but is average in all of them and can be a real turnstile in defence
2) Best looks shot and I wouldn't have him in the squad let alone the team
3) Madigan should get a start at 10 in one of the games
4) If Ferris is fit (a huge if I know) how good would a back row of him sob and heaslip be!!!
5) outsider for the test 23 your young prop McGrath I expect big things from him this season

[TheFergmeister]

A very decent team. I think I'd go for O'Mahony at No6 and O'Brien at No7, as the former gives an exceptionally good lineout option [which would squeeze him ahead of O'Donnell in my book].

Very tough call to make on the No23 jersey. McFadden had a great year last season and ended it with a test hat-trick while Earls is a great broken field runner and gives better cover at No13 [and arguably fullback] than Gilroy. Luke Fitz is a wildcard – his comeback in January of last season was pretty sensational, so ideally he'll hit the ground running again in a few weeks.

I picked O'Brien at 6 because I think that it is his best position. O'Donnell is a very good 7 in my book and had a great season but I'd say that the back row will be O'Mahoney/O'Brien going by experience but I would still like to see O'Brien/O'Donnell.
I don't rate Earls too highly, I think Gilroy is far more talented. McFadden has an outside chance if he plays well fro the next few weeks.

[TheFergmeister]

from an outsiders view point

1) McFadden has to be on the bench, earles can play lost of positions but is average in all of them and can be a real turnstile in defence
2) Best looks shot and I wouldn't have him in the squad let alone the team
3) Madigan should get a start at 10 in one of the games
4) If Ferris is fit (a huge if I know) how good would a back row of him sob and heaslip be!!!
5) outsider for the test 23 your young prop McGrath I expect big things from him this season

Yeah, I think it's McFadden v Gilroy for #23.
I also think Best is gone, he was awful on the Lions tour.
Yeah, maybe start Madigan against Samoa.
Ferris won't be back until 2014.
I don't think McGrath is as good as Kilcoyne.

[TheBear]

from an outsiders view point

1) McFadden has to be on the bench, earles can play lost of positions but is average in all of them and can be a real turnstile in defence
2) Best looks shot and I wouldn't have him in the squad let alone the team
3) Madigan should get a start at 10 in one of the games
4) If Ferris is fit (a huge if I know) how good would a back row of him sob and heaslip be!!!
5) outsider for the test 23 your young prop McGrath I expect big things from him this season

Yeah, I think it's McFadden v Gilroy for #23.
I also think Best is gone, he was awful on the Lions tour.
Yeah, maybe start Madigan against Samoa.
Ferris won't be back until 2014.
I don't think McGrath is as good as Kilcoyne.

Has Ferris not signed a six-month deal with Ulster? Or is it for the second half of the season?

[Alternative Ulster]

Yes. But he will be out injured until then.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Can't believe people are writing Rory Best off. From the world cup until the start of the last 6N he was one of the best hookers in the world. He was never going to keep up that form for much longer but I'm also shocked at how badly his form dropped. People are saying that he's finished on the back of 3/4 months of bad form out of 8/9 year career though, madness.

[HenryFitz]

McFadden is Mr Average, scores tries against Zebre and Canada or in meaningless time against Clermont and Ulster. Schmidt has always picked Fitzgerald ahead of him, and he will do again, I reckon. Fitzgerald is the better player. It remains to be seen how it shakes out between Fitzgerald and Earls for the 23 jersey. Gilroy is not versatile enough to be an option. If Fitzgerald plays a few games in the centre this season, he'll have a good chance.

[Dave Cahill]

McFadden is Mr Average, scores tries against Zebre and Canada or in meaningless time against Clermont and Ulster. Schmidt has always picked Fitzgerald ahead of him, and he will do again, I reckon. Fitzgerald is the better player. It remains to be seen how it shakes out between Fitzgerald and Earls for the 23 jersey. Gilroy is not versatile enough to be an option. If Fitzgerald plays a few games in the centre this season, he'll have a good chance.

That try was the most important try we scored in the HEC last season, without it the games against Scarlets and Exeter would have been dead rubbers - it gave us a chance to qualify, no matter how slim, which we wouldn't have had without that losing bonus point.

[HenryFitz]

That try was the most important try we scored in the HEC last season, without it the games against Scarlets and Exeter would have been dead rubbers - it gave us a chance to qualify, no matter how slim, which we wouldn't have had without that losing bonus point.

Clermont were cruising at the time.

[Dave Cahill]

That try was the most important try we scored in the HEC last season, without it the games against Scarlets and Exeter would have been dead rubbers - it gave us a chance to qualify, no matter how slim, which we wouldn't have had without that losing bonus point.

Clermont were cruising at the time.

Irrelevant

[hugonaut]

Can't believe people are writing Rory Best off. From the world cup until the start of the last 6N he was one of the best hookers in the world. He was never going to keep up that form for much longer but I'm also shocked at how badly his form dropped. People are saying that he's finished on the back of 3/4 months of bad form out of 8/9 year career though, madness.

I don't think he's finished by any means, but he has been really, really poor in the last six months and deserves to be dropped. It's as simple as that, from my point of view.

One of the main criticisms that was aimed at both Kidney and O'Sullivan was that it was harder to get out of the team than get into it, that good form wasn't rewarded and that bad form went unpunished. Best is way out of form and like pretty much everybody else should play his way back into form with his province/club, not at test level.

We should be in a very good position given the calibre and spread of hookers in Ireland - Best at Ulster, Strauss and Cronin at Leinster, Sherry and Varley at Munster. There should be great competition between all those guys for the starting jersey [and while I realise that Varley's throwing is even more hit-and-miss than Best's, he's exceptionally good over the ball as a jackal and is kind of an under-rated player], but if the jersey's not up for grabs, it doesn't help.

[HenryFitz]

That try was the most important try we scored in the HEC last season, without it the games against Scarlets and Exeter would have been dead rubbers - it gave us a chance to qualify, no matter how slim, which we wouldn't have had without that losing bonus point.

Clermont were cruising at the time.

Irrelevant

The attitude of an opponent is relevant. It's generally more difficult to score when they're trying harder.

[Dave Cahill]

Can't believe people are writing Rory Best off. From the world cup until the start of the last 6N he was one of the best hookers in the world. He was never going to keep up that form for much longer but I'm also shocked at how badly his form dropped. People are saying that he's finished on the back of 3/4 months of bad form out of 8/9 year career though, madness.

I don't think he's finished by any means, but he has been really, really poor in the last six months and deserves to be dropped. It's as simple as that, from my point of view.

One of the main criticisms that was aimed at both Kidney and O'Sullivan was that it was harder to get out of the team than get into it, that good form wasn't rewarded and that bad form went unpunished. Best is way out of form and like pretty much everybody else should play his way back into form with his province/club, not at test level.

We should be in a very good position given the calibre and spread of hookers in Ireland - Best at Ulster, Strauss and Cronin at Leinster, Sherry and Varley at Munster. There should be great competition between all those guys for the starting jersey [and while I realise that Varley's throwing is even more hit-and-miss than Best's, he's exceptionally good over the ball as a jackal and is kind of an under-rated player], but if the jersey's not up for grabs, it doesn't help.

One thing you left out, and something thats going to be key this season, is the ability to actually hook. We have absolutely no idea where any of the hookers in the country stand at this point in time as pretty much none of them will have done it before, at least not properly.

[Dave Cahill]

The attitude of an opponent is relevant. It's generally more difficult to score when they're trying harder.

If they were cruising then they were cruising for all the other players on the team - they didn't take the chance though, McFadden did.

[OTT]

I would have thought McFadden would be a shoe in for the 23 jersey. He is consistent and is capable of playing the rugby Joe Schmidt likes to play. It is also incorrect to say Schmidt never picked him at Leinster. The opposite is actually true he nearly always picked him just in different positions because he trusted him. you can make the arguement that it was because someone was injured but that is convenient and when you go through the last two seasons and the big games he is almost an ever present.

I would have thought Earls could be the biggest victim of the new regime. He runs very fast, wont (or cant?) pass and hopes he makes the line or if not that he doesnt get islolated and turned over. He will have to add a few strings to his bow to play the way I hope we are going to try and play. He has been at it five years now so you would have to wonder. No contest between the two in defence.