Ireland v France

[Twist]

We're obliged to fulfil this fixture whether we like it or not....

But what should we even hope for? An unlikely win might paper over the cracks for DK. As much as I don't want to see that happen, I can't ever hope to see Ireland lose. McF for Earls and Madigan on the bench, please.

[Jackie Brown]

Kearney, Gilroy, BOD, Marshall, McF, PJ, Murray
Court, Best, Ross, Ryan, Doc, Henderson, SOB, Heaslip

Bench,
Kilocoyne, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Stevenson, McLaughlin, Reddan, Madigan, Fitzgerald

Would like to see Bossy involved, hard decision to make leaving him out. POM has been well found out. McFadden ahead of Earls and Fitzgerald because he's a better player (nothing to do with place kicking, since he doesn't actually kick for his province either). Toner isn't an international, let's have a look at other options. Madigan ahead of ROG, because ROG isn't capable anymore.

[Peg Leg]

As of Saturday evening, I expected us to lose to Scotland but beat the rabble that France have become.
Home advantage being the difference.

[Mexicola]

Lets just hope Saint Andre gives us a chance in this one...

[Peg Leg]

Kearney, Gilroy, BOD, Marshall, McF, PJ, Murray
Court, Best, Ross, Ryan, Doc, Henderson, SOB, Heaslip

Bench,
Kilocoyne, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Stevenson, McLaughlin, Reddan, Madigan, Fitzgerald

Would like to see Bossy involved, hard decision to make leaving him out. POM has been well found out. McFadden ahead of Earls and Fitzgerald because he's a better player (nothing to do with place kicking, since he doesn't actually kick for his province either). Toner isn't an international, let's have a look at other options. Madigan ahead of ROG, because ROG isn't capable anymore.

If last weekends match against the scarlets was an audition for a place in the squad- Only DK would pick him!!

[the spoofer]

Kearney, Gilroy, BOD, Marshall, McF, PJ, Murray
Court, Best, Ross, Ryan, Doc, Henderson, SOB, Heaslip

Bench,
Kilocoyne, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Stevenson, McLaughlin, Reddan, Madigan, Fitzgerald

Would like to see Bossy involved, hard decision to make leaving him out. POM has been well found out. McFadden ahead of Earls and Fitzgerald because he's a better player (nothing to do with place kicking, since he doesn't actually kick for his province either). Toner isn't an international, let's have a look at other options. Madigan ahead of ROG, because ROG isn't capable anymore.

I have a complete and utter pain in my hole hearing that Toner isn't international class. He is a 6 10 26 old second row who is still maturing.He has 116 Leinster caps with 76 of them starting, 11 of which are HC starts. Where was Donnacha Ryan as a 26 year old? Lewis Stevenson is 28 has started 2 HC games and has a total of 40 pro games,16 as sub. Toners form is very good at the moment with a near man of the match performance against Zebre.

He is as effective a ball carrier as any of our 2nd rows with the possible exception of McCarthy and Ryan. He is an excellent tackler, has good hands and has the added advantage on restarts.

I am firmly of the view that he will be first choice Irish lock at WC 2015 at which stage his body will be fully matured.

[Jackie Brown]

A near MOTM performance vs Zebre, well feck me sideways get him to Australia this summer...

In fairness though, I've never seen anything from Toner to suggest he should be involved. He doesn't carry ball, he saunters from ruck to ruck, he doesn't appear to have the strength in the tight, his only saving grace is he's a lanky fella. A good provincial player (Kinda like a Robbie Diack, Peter O'Mahoney, Rodger Wilson) but that's about it i'm afraid.

[sid]

Maybe we should talk about a gameplan rather than bicker over selections - how should we approach the match, given our obvious limitations? France are there for the taking, but if we put on our usual headless chicken display they'll still beat us. England were far from perfect (probably close to mediocre) for most of their game on Saturday, but they still had a plan that they stuck to and it paid off. France can be demoralized, but not if we capitulate first.

[Logorrhea]

In fairness though, I've never seen anything from Toner to suggest he should be involved. He doesn't carry ball, he saunters from ruck to ruck, he doesn't appear to have the strength in the tight, his only saving grace is he's a lanky fella.

Obviously a few of us will dissagree because we see him week in week out. Would strongly suggest you do the same. His form this year has been really good.

However, Jim Hamilton has just shown what a fairly average lock (by youre standards) can do. He doesnt carry, semi-effective in the tight and no real presence in the loose, but look at the damage he did to Rory Best and the Irish lineout. Look at the difference he made to the overall result. Never underestimate the power of a tall man jumping around 3-4 in the lineout. Terrifies the shite out of opposition hookers.

Maybe we should talk about a gameplan rather than bicker over selections

We'll be playing kicky-hoofy-chasey-chase wont we?

[domhnallj]

Maybe we should talk about a gameplan rather than bicker over selections - how should we approach the match, given our obvious limitations? France are there for the taking, but if we put on our usual headless chicken display they'll still beat us. England were far from perfect (probably close to mediocre) for most of their game on Saturday, but they still had a plan that they stuck to and it paid off. France can be demoralized, but not if we capitulate first.

If we put in the same shift at the set-piece as yesterday the French will beat us out the door. Serious work on the scrum needed and fingers crossed we get CH back. I think PSA made substitution mistakes on Saturday that he won't repeat (or will he!).

[Peg Leg]

Maybe we should talk about a gameplan rather than bicker over selections - how should we approach the match, given our obvious limitations? France are there for the taking, but if we put on our usual headless chicken display they'll still beat us. England were far from perfect (probably close to mediocre) for most of their game on Saturday, but they still had a plan that they stuck to and it paid off. France can be demoralized, but not if we capitulate first.

If we put in the same shift at the set-piece as yesterday the French will beat us out the door. Serious work on the scrum needed and fingers crossed we get CH back. I think PSA made substitution mistakes on Saturday that he won't repeat (or will he!).

Bizzaro use of the bench- which we should plan for.
Play containment for 60mins (don't kick it away please), pack the bench with knuckle dragging giants and have them all run at flash freddie when he comes on- in the bag.

[suisse]

Best opening line to a game thread I've ever seen. Fantastic.

I've no problem with Wee Pawdy getting another run out, but if so, play McF. Although, in fairness, McF deserves a run ahead of Earls. I'm still not convinced Fergus will ever be good enough at this level, but he is literally banging the door down whereas Earls can't find form to save his life. I'd rather play El Madrigal but wouldn't get upset over his non selection - unless you know who makes the cut.

I also think we're scraping the barrel a bit suggesting Toner as an international second row. He has a lot of supporters here, and good for him. But I'd sooner wanna see Leo in that team. We're clearly lacking leadership out there. Cullen mightn't be the greatest second row in Ireland, but he is a damn fine captain and he is playing excellent rugby. I think Wayne Barnes has a lot of respect for Cullen. You could see it during the Clermont SF. But refs seem to have taken a disliking to JH. I think Leo's experience would be invaluable now. Pure short term-ism but FFS, does it really matter anymore? Of course, the chances of this happening are about 10 kms below impossible.

[Logorrhea]

But refs seem to have taken a disliking to JH.

Sorry but your basing that on what exactly?

[Oldschool]

We're obliged to fulfil this fixture whether we like it or not....

But what should we even hope for? An unlikely win might paper over the cracks for DK. As much as I don't want to see that happen, I can't ever hope to see Ireland lose. McF for Earls and Madigan on the bench, please.

Send the girls (Lady's) team along!

[suisse]

But refs seem to have taken a disliking to JH.

Sorry but your basing that on what exactly?

In terms of his international career, have you ever heard Wayne Barnes dress down a player like he did to Jamie v SA? That was a very public rebuking.It was fairly significant. I don't think Heaslip had a happy experience with the officials in the Wales game either. I'm basing this on how I see the match officials deal with our captain. Nothing more. But I noticed even the Times picked up on this last weekend. WRT Barnes, there is history with Heaslip (red card too)/ Only Kaplan was such an arrogant pr!*k to BOD in all his years.

[West Brit]

But refs seem to have taken a disliking to JH.

Sorry but your basing that on what exactly?

In terms of his international career, have you ever heard Wayne Barnes dress down a player like he did to Jamie v SA? That was a very public rebuking.It was fairly significant. I don't think Heaslip had a happy experience with the officials in the Wales game either. I'm basing this on how I see the match officials deal with our captain. Nothing more. But I noticed even the Times picked up on this last weekend. WRT Barnes, there is history with Heaslip (red card too)/ Only Kaplan was such an arrogant pr!*k to BOD in all his years.

To be fair, You Tube and Rugby Dump both have demonstrations of Barnes giving very stern dressing downs to captains, worse than that he delivered to Heaslip.

[West Brit]

To be fair, You Tube and Rugby Dump both have demonstrations of Barnes giving very stern dressing downs to captains, worse than that he delivered to Heaslip.

Here for example
http://www.rugbydump.com/2008/07/613/wa ... -borthwick

[Xanthippe]

But refs seem to have taken a disliking to JH.

Sorry but your basing that on what exactly?

In terms of his international career, have you ever heard Wayne Barnes dress down a player like he did to Jamie v SA? That was a very public rebuking.It was fairly significant. I don't think Heaslip had a happy experience with the officials in the Wales game either. I'm basing this on how I see the match officials deal with our captain. Nothing more. But I noticed even the Times picked up on this last weekend. WRT Barnes, there is history with Heaslip (red card too)/ Only Kaplan was such an arrogant pr!*k to BOD in all his years.

In fairness it was Barnes and that's how he talks to players - he did it again on Sunday when Jamie was trying to talk to him. I know there's a lot of people on here who don't like Nigel Owens but there's a lot that the other refs could learn from him in how he deals with players - he interjects the odd moment of humour and he rarely. if ever, creates a fuss. Barnes appears to need to be the big important man who tells everyone else what to do.

[Peg Leg]

In fairness it was Barnes and that's how he talks to players - he did it again on Sunday when Jamie was trying to talk to him. I know there's a lot of people on here who don't like Nigel Owens but there's a lot that the other refs could learn from him in how he deals with players - he interjects the odd moment of humour and he rarely. if ever, creates a fuss. Barnes appears to need to be the big important man who tells everyone else what to do.

To counter that I give you Nigel, being the big man and creating a fuss:




Sorry Xan, but it was one of the "related links" on West Brits previous post!

[fourthirtythree]

Yeah but I'm with Xanthippe on this, that was... a bit of a gamble which didn't work out too well. But in general he is capable of diffusing situations with humour.

Wayne Barnes admonishing Heaslip against SA was something which he should have reviewed the tape of and then apologised for. Barnes was utterly wrong. He was a pompous, arrogant, and very, very blind and mistaken tw@t. The end result was the late hit on Henry which I hold him responsible for. The SA team clearly saw they were being allowed hit however, whenever, with whatever part of the anatomy (say, knee) they felt like. It was Heaslip's job to inform him that safety was an issue. Barnes's job should have been to look out for player safety instead of looking to verbally one-up the captains.