Sevens

[Dave Cahill]

England beaten (to complete the double) in the playoff so Ireland finish 7th in the womens side of the competition

[Dave Cahill]

Bronze for Ireland with the winning try coming from the great Harry McNulty! Terry Kennedy MOTM with two brilliant pieces of footwork!

[naraic]

Bronze for Ireland with the winning try coming from the great Harry McNulty! Terry Kennedy MOTM with two brilliant pieces of footwork!

Some achievement for the 7s set up. Australia are just after winning the world series so its a massive achievement. Really puts the Irish team among the big boys.

[Barry]

Didn't see the Portugal game, but they were magnificent in the other 4 games.
Big day for the biffos (Lowry & Conroy)

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

[Ruckedtobits]

Excellent performances from Men's & Women's Squads. Doing Irish Rugby proud and deserve bigger rewards (salaries).

[naraic]

Excellent performances from Men's & Women's Squads. Doing Irish Rugby proud and deserve bigger rewards (salaries).

Do you happen to know if Rugby 7s manages to cover its own expenses in Ireland.

The commentator during the bronze medal match mentioned that Terry Kennedy was taking a year off next year. At the end of last season (2020/2021) 5 players in their 20s retired (though that may have been a good thing give the success the current batch has made).

I was wondering if there was any options to increase income for sevens (and therefore salaries).

[jezzer]

I just can't believe that there isn't a role for Terry Kennedy in 15s.

Terrific performance against NZ and probably unlucky to lose it.

Got a bit lucky against Oz but really deserved their win in any event. Fantastic to see Ireland on top so soon after taking it seriously.

[Morf]

Think Terry is turning down a 6 figure contract with 15s for E21,000/yr and a sadistic conditioning regime with 7s if it was offered?

[jezzer]

Think Terry is turning down a 6 figure contract with 15s for E21,000/yr and a sadistic conditioning regime with 7s if it was offered?

I'm sure he wouldn't. I'm just surprised nobody is offering it.

[Ruckedtobits]

Three top class performances against SA, NZ, & Aus. We are now producing top-class performances with regularity against the top teams. Add in Fiji and Argentina and there is a highly competitive group of teams which can defeat each other on any given week. To have reached this level after a mere 5 years since we re-introduced Sevens is almost miraculous and a huge credit to Squad and Coaches involved.

Given that Irish Sevens has also produced a few players for the 15's game, this has been a strategic success, despite the views in the IRFU Committee. Top five in World Series & World Cup will now be followed by Olympic qualification. We do really need to see a Sevens Tournament in Ireland.

[Dave Cahill]

Given that Irish Sevens has also produced a few players for the 15's game

No it hasn't.

[blockhead]

Excellent performances from Men's & Women's Squads. Doing Irish Rugby proud and deserve bigger rewards (salaries).

Do they generate any money for IRFU?

[naraic]

Given that Irish Sevens has also produced a few players for the 15's game

No it hasn't.

That's a matter for debate.

Hugo Keenan played sevens. I think he still would have come through so I'm not sure how much if at all sevens contributed to his development.

There's one or two more like that.

[Dave Cahill]

Given that Irish Sevens has also produced a few players for the 15's game

No it hasn't.

That's a matter for debate.

Hugo Keenan played sevens. I think he still would have come through so I'm not sure how much if at all sevens contributed to his development.

There's one or two more like that.

Hugo Keenan is a product of the Rugby pyramid in Leinster - he is a Schools Cup winner, age grade provincial and international representative and graduate of the Leinster Academy and had already made his Leinster debut as well as a victory over the All Blacks before hitting the sevens circuit.

Until some lad who has never touched a Rugby ball in his life, or only at a very low level, comes through the sevens programme to play for Leinster (or whoever), Sevens can't claim to have produced anyone. Look at the three best players in the Irish squad - Conroy, Kennedy and McNulty - none of them are any closer to a Tier 1 professional contract than they were when they were in their provincial academies. They are Rugby Sevens players, not Rugby Union players. People use the argument about guys who go to sevens and come back to union as being proof of the benefit of sevens, but the reality is actually the opposite. A good union player, from no 6 up, will probably do quite well in sevens, but the best sevens players can rarely make it in Union - William Ryder, Carlin Isles, Cecil Afrika, all greats of the Sevens game have barely caused a ripple in Union

Sevens does have benefits, but none of them are specifically rugby related, the professionalism required, the hard work, the sacrifices you have to make - they are a big benefit for a young player absolutely, but the sport itself? None. If there were a coherent competitive structure for the provincial A/Academy sides then all those benefits would still accrue. Perhaps that is the reason why we don't have that structure - Sevens is a shibboleth at this stage due to David Nucifora's investment in the programmes.

I like Sevens (although in relatively small doses, there's a reason why people who watch a full day of it are drunk!), but Rugby Union's and Rugby Sevens' respective evolutionary pathways have created what are now two different sports. In terms of usefulness to playing Rugby Union, Rugby League is actually a better fit these days. But you will never see the IRFU fund a Rugby League team!

[Oldschoolsocks]

No it hasn't.

That's a matter for debate.

Hugo Keenan played sevens. I think he still would have come through so I'm not sure how much if at all sevens contributed to his development.

There's one or two more like that.

Hugo Keenan is a product of the Rugby pyramid in Leinster - he is a Schools Cup winner, age grade provincial and international representative and graduate of the Leinster Academy and had already made his Leinster debut as well as a victory over the All Blacks before hitting the sevens circuit.

Until some lad who has never touched a Rugby ball in his life, or only at a very low level, comes through the sevens programme to play for Leinster (or whoever), Sevens can't claim to have produced anyone. Look at the three best players in the Irish squad - Conroy, Kennedy and McNulty - none of them are any closer to a Tier 1 professional contract than they were when they were in their provincial academies. They are Rugby Sevens players, not Rugby Union players. People use the argument about guys who go to sevens and come back to union as being proof of the benefit of sevens, but the reality is actually the opposite. A good union player, from no 6 up, will probably do quite well in sevens, but the best sevens players can rarely make it in Union - William Ryder, Carlin Isles, Cecil Afrika, all greats of the Sevens game have barely caused a ripple in Union

Sevens does have benefits, but none of them are specifically rugby related, the professionalism required, the hard work, the sacrifices you have to make - they are a big benefit for a young player absolutely, but the sport itself? None. If there were a coherent competitive structure for the provincial A/Academy sides then all those benefits would still accrue. Perhaps that is the reason why we don't have that structure - Sevens is a shibboleth at this stage due to David Nucifora's investment in the programmes.

I like Sevens (although in relatively small doses, there's a reason why people who watch a full day of it are drunk!), but Rugby Union's and Rugby Sevens' respective evolutionary pathways have created what are now two different sports. In terms of usefulness to playing Rugby Union, Rugby League is actually a better fit these days. But you will never see the IRFU fund a Rugby League team!

Jaysis Dave, you certainly wont need to move your goalposts now

[Dave Cahill]

Jaysis Dave, you certainly wont need to move your goalposts now

?

[Ruckedtobits]

Hugo Keenan, Will Connors & Jimmy O'Brien are the three players of recent vintage who played for Ireland Seven's and returned to XV's with enhanced skills which led to international selection, IMO.

[leinsterforever]

Hugo Keenan is a product of the Rugby pyramid in Leinster - he is a Schools Cup winner, age grade provincial and international representative and graduate of the Leinster Academy and had already made his Leinster debut as well as a victory over the All Blacks before hitting the sevens circuit.

Until some lad who has never touched a Rugby ball in his life, or only at a very low level, comes through the sevens programme to play for Leinster (or whoever), Sevens can't claim to have produced anyone. Look at the three best players in the Irish squad - Conroy, Kennedy and McNulty - none of them are any closer to a Tier 1 professional contract than they were when they were in their provincial academies. They are Rugby Sevens players, not Rugby Union players. People use the argument about guys who go to sevens and come back to union as being proof of the benefit of sevens, but the reality is actually the opposite. A good union player, from no 6 up, will probably do quite well in sevens, but the best sevens players can rarely make it in Union - William Ryder, Carlin Isles, Cecil Afrika, all greats of the Sevens game have barely caused a ripple in Union

Sevens does have benefits, but none of them are specifically rugby related, the professionalism required, the hard work, the sacrifices you have to make - they are a big benefit for a young player absolutely, but the sport itself? None. If there were a coherent competitive structure for the provincial A/Academy sides then all those benefits would still accrue. Perhaps that is the reason why we don't have that structure - Sevens is a shibboleth at this stage due to David Nucifora's investment in the programmes.

I like Sevens (although in relatively small doses, there's a reason why people who watch a full day of it are drunk!), but Rugby Union's and Rugby Sevens' respective evolutionary pathways have created what are now two different sports. In terms of usefulness to playing Rugby Union, Rugby League is actually a better fit these days. But you will never see the IRFU fund a Rugby League team!

I don't think you making a big point of 7s not being rugby union works when you consider rugby league 7s also exists. Admittedly it's rarely played these days; they favour 9s. But my point is that in rugby union 7s the rules around the set piece and at the breakdown are union rules.

Personally, I don't think Keenan would have been nearly as well placed to grasp his Leinster opportunity when it presented itself if he hadn't been exposed to high level, high pressure situations with the 7s. There wasn't much Leinster gametime available to him while he was off focusing on 7s, so any 15s experience he would have been getting instead wouldn't have prepared him as well for the high pressure stuff.

[OTT]

I like 7s. I think it was an opportunity lost years ago when we didn’t bother with a 7s team because I definitely think there would have been huge scope for Dublin to be on the 7s series calendar as a destination and the team could have funded itself through that, Scotland used to be a venue ffs (I had a rant about that on here somewhere years ago).

But the idea that players are found through 7s is not accurate imo, maybe they hone some skills but the example of Hugo Keenan is a bit inaccurate, his greatest ability is to cover the backfield seamlessly, that’s not something he picked up in 7s. He got capped years ago by Leinster and (if I remember correctly) went off injured at half time having not had a great game on the wing. He was subsequently out for a sustained period of time. The same happened Connors. Injury slowed their development/rise through the ranks. Connors biggest attribute is his ability to stop massive men at the gainline, not sure he picked that up in 7s.

At the same time these lads that had spent much time injured they were still getting their contracts renewed by Leinster lads like Dardis, Kennedy, Jack Kelly were all getting cut early from the academy or released on completion. So the truth seems that Leo etc had already earmarked Keenan, JOB and Connors even if as fans we weren’t aware of their standing/progress, so them coming out of nowhere for us was maybe really out of planning by the coaches.

As I said I’m a fan of 7s, I’m happy for academy lads to be used in 7s but I’m still unconvinced the guys who make it are because of their 7s background, if it proves that someone can get back in 15s who have been cut from 7s great but it hasn’t seemed like a road travelled so far in Ireland anyway. Jordan Conroy as an example didn’t make it going through the Connacht academy yet he has been a sensation on the 7s circuit since Ireland came back into it, if 7s is a big contributor to honing their skills that guy would have been brought back years ago to 15s, lots of good coaches over the last 5 years could have had a punt on him but I’d say they suspect his defence isn’t near good enough for 15s and I’d suspect they would be right.

Anyway, really enjoyed the 7s, well done to both the men and women, very entertaining weekend.

[leinsterforever]

To address Dave's point of whether there have been any players who solely played 7s and then went on to be good 15s players, would a fair number of Fijians not fit into that category? 7s is huge in Fiji. It's probably the game players play most over there when they're growing up? And there's a neverending stream of ridiculously able players going to league and union 15s.

I like 7s. I think it was an opportunity lost years ago when we didn’t bother with a 7s team because I definitely think there would have been huge scope for Dublin to be on the 7s series calendar as a destination and the team could have funded itself through that, Scotland used to be a venue ffs (I had a rant about that on here somewhere years ago).

But the idea that players are found through 7s is not accurate imo, maybe they hone some skills but the example of Hugo Keenan is a bit inaccurate, his greatest ability is to cover the backfield seamlessly, that’s not something he picked up in 7s. He got capped years ago by Leinster and (if I remember correctly) went off injured at half time having not had a great game on the wing. He was subsequently out for a sustained period of time. The same happened Connors. Injury slowed their development/rise through the ranks. Connors biggest attribute is his ability to stop massive men at the gainline, not sure he picked that up in 7s.

At the same time these lads that had spent much time injured they were still getting their contracts renewed by Leinster lads like Dardis, Kennedy, Jack Kelly were all getting cut early from the academy or released on completion. So the truth seems that Leo etc had already earmarked Keenan, JOB and Connors even if as fans we weren’t aware of their standing/progress, so them coming out of nowhere for us was maybe really out of planning by the coaches.

As I said I’m a fan of 7s, I’m happy for academy lads to be used in 7s but I’m still unconvinced the guys who make it are because of their 7s background, if it proves that someone can get back in 15s who have been cut from 7s great but it hasn’t seemed like a road travelled so far in Ireland anyway. Jordan Conroy as an example didn’t make it going through the Connacht academy yet he has been a sensation on the 7s circuit since Ireland came back into it, if 7s is a big contributor to honing their skills that guy would have been brought back years ago to 15s, lots of good coaches over the last 5 years could have had a punt on him but I’d say they suspect his defence isn’t near good enough for 15s and I’d suspect they would be right.

Anyway, really enjoyed the 7s, well done to both the men and women, very entertaining weekend.

Dardis and Kelly spent loads of time in the Academy. Four years for Dardis, and was it the same for Kelly? So, they weren't cut early. How does Dardis spend four years in an academy if he isn't being "earmarked"?