Sevens
Moderator: moderators
- simonokeeffe
- Jamie Heaslip
- Posts: 16777
- Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
- Location: Dublin
- Contact:
Sevens
Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
- RavenhillRaider
- Knowledgeable
- Posts: 428
- Joined: April 3rd, 2010, 11:53 am
- Location: Belfast
Re: Rumour Mill
+1simonokeeffe wrote:Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done
Cant understand the negitivity on here about a sevens team.
BOD is GOD!
- Dave Cahill
- Devin Toner
- Posts: 25535
- Joined: January 24th, 2006, 3:32 pm
- Location: None of your damn business
- Contact:
Re: Rumour Mill
Its very simple. Its a waste of money spent on what is at best only a tiny subset of the game that is utterly unrecoverable and is of no real benefit to actual rugby.RavenhillRaider wrote:+1simonokeeffe wrote:Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done
Cant understand the negitivity on here about a sevens team.
I have Bumbleflex
Re: Rumour Mill
Plenty of internationals have come through the sevens circuit.Dave Cahill wrote:Its very simple. Its a waste of money spent on what is at best only a tiny subset of the game that is utterly unrecoverable and is of no real benefit to actual rugby.RavenhillRaider wrote:+1simonokeeffe wrote:Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done
Cant understand the negitivity on here about a sevens team.
- simonokeeffe
- Jamie Heaslip
- Posts: 16777
- Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
- Location: Dublin
- Contact:
Re: Rumour Mill
that Cuthbert lad at the weekend looked ok
you want to be ruthless its good for tying players to Ireland rather than other countries
I would look at this for 7's usefullness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ne ... sentatives
you want to be ruthless its good for tying players to Ireland rather than other countries
I would look at this for 7's usefullness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ne ... sentatives
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
- Dave Cahill
- Devin Toner
- Posts: 25535
- Joined: January 24th, 2006, 3:32 pm
- Location: None of your damn business
- Contact:
Re: Rumour Mill
No, plenty of internationals have played on the sevens circuit. Theres no proof or correlation that sevens had anything to do with them being or becoming internationals. There are an exponentially larger number of international players who never went next nor near to sevens.AdamK wrote: Plenty of internationals have come through the sevens circuit.
Put it this way. Say we'd joined the world 7s circuit from the get go, spent millions on it. How would that have helped us last year in Twickenham when Mike Ross got injured? How would sevens have helped us develop a player for the most important position on the pitch? The answer is it wouldn't. Because sevens is of no use whatsoever in the real game. How many props or hookers or locks play sevens? Virtually none. Who creates the platform that games are won upon? Props, Hookers and locks.
I have Bumbleflex
- Dave Cahill
- Devin Toner
- Posts: 25535
- Joined: January 24th, 2006, 3:32 pm
- Location: None of your damn business
- Contact:
Re: Rumour Mill
simonokeeffe wrote:that Cuthbert lad at the weekend looked ok
you want to be ruthless its good for tying players to Ireland rather than other countries
I would look at this for 7's usefullness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ne ... sentatives
Salve Tokula is on that list. He certainly looked like a player well prepared for the step up to international rugby.
I have Bumbleflex
- Flash Gordon
- Leo Cullen
- Posts: 11721
- Joined: February 7th, 2006, 3:31 pm
Re: Rumour Mill
Absolutely, there's a finite pot in the IRFU budget that is well outstretched. So that means, the money has to come from an existing budget, like the budget for Leinster for example. Do I want to diminish our ability to keep our squad competitive further to develop a 7's game? Absolutely not!Dave Cahill wrote:Its very simple. Its a waste of money spent on what is at best only a tiny subset of the game that is utterly unrecoverable and is of no real benefit to actual rugby.RavenhillRaider wrote:+1simonokeeffe wrote:Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done
Cant understand the negitivity on here about a sevens team.
Flash ahhhh ahhh, he'll save every one of us
Re: Rumour Mill
i think it's important that Ireland put money into their sevens programme now that rugby has been accepted as an olympic sport in sevens form. The game could grow quickly as a result, with some murmurings even suggesting it might eventually overtake the 15-man game in terms of global popularity (I don't agree with that, but the point is that it's certainly going to grow). We want to put in a respectable showing at the Olympics, and that involves investment.
There's also no doubt that a year or two of sevens rugby would have developed the likes of Conway more quickly than sitting on bench at Leinster. I agree with Dave's point about it not being effective for developing tight-five forwards, but it's definitely good for exposing outside-backs to a high intensity game and improving their skills. We're the only major rugby nation not to have a permanent sevens team, and I think there's definitely scope and obvious benefit in investing more in sevens rugby.
There's also no doubt that a year or two of sevens rugby would have developed the likes of Conway more quickly than sitting on bench at Leinster. I agree with Dave's point about it not being effective for developing tight-five forwards, but it's definitely good for exposing outside-backs to a high intensity game and improving their skills. We're the only major rugby nation not to have a permanent sevens team, and I think there's definitely scope and obvious benefit in investing more in sevens rugby.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- simonokeeffe
- Jamie Heaslip
- Posts: 16777
- Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
- Location: Dublin
- Contact:
Re: Rumour Mill
Like I said, Dublin leg of 7's world series would pay for it or go a long way to pay for it
We've got IRB, RWC, ERC based here so should be arrangeable
Dublin easy as hell to pimp out as a (rugby)(weekend) destination, might even get a gov subsidy if we're bringing in 25k tourists
Pretty obvious we wouldnt get front 5 forwards out of it, but its good exposure for guys 6-15 and is better standard than most of what the sub academy guys at very least would be playing.
Would be great for confidence (not to mention skills) of guys like Conway (who people keep saying has been post injury low on confidence), Hanrahan, SCM, O'Dea etc if theyre running in buckets of tries, helpful if theyre coming back from injury
We've got IRB, RWC, ERC based here so should be arrangeable
Dublin easy as hell to pimp out as a (rugby)(weekend) destination, might even get a gov subsidy if we're bringing in 25k tourists
Pretty obvious we wouldnt get front 5 forwards out of it, but its good exposure for guys 6-15 and is better standard than most of what the sub academy guys at very least would be playing.
Would be great for confidence (not to mention skills) of guys like Conway (who people keep saying has been post injury low on confidence), Hanrahan, SCM, O'Dea etc if theyre running in buckets of tries, helpful if theyre coming back from injury
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
Re: Rumour Mill
If a 7's team could break even it might be worth looking in to purely for entertainment purposes, but to be honest it's just a luxury and an exhibition sport, there's no real benefit to be had from it. In fact, it may even be damaging for players from the 15 man game to get used to stretching their legs in so much space and then coming back to the 15 man game and losing their eye for a small gap or a clever pass. It's about as plausable as any benefit players could get from it anyway.
If it was to lose a single cent of IRFU money then it's no way near worth it, and it wouldn't come close to breaking even as it is under any professional format - and I would imagine that even if Dublin got a leg of the 7's circuit it would only pay "royalties" of sorts, a fraction of the profits.
It's a hybrid, like rugby league, it's not the same sport.
If it was to lose a single cent of IRFU money then it's no way near worth it, and it wouldn't come close to breaking even as it is under any professional format - and I would imagine that even if Dublin got a leg of the 7's circuit it would only pay "royalties" of sorts, a fraction of the profits.
It's a hybrid, like rugby league, it's not the same sport.
Pro12 Champions, Amlin Challenge Cup Champions, British & Irish Cup Champions
- Dave Cahill
- Devin Toner
- Posts: 25535
- Joined: January 24th, 2006, 3:32 pm
- Location: None of your damn business
- Contact:
Re: Rumour Mill
Lets clear one thing up. Rugby is not an Olympic sport. A small subset of the game is. Its like if basketball were replaced at the Olympics with 1on1s or Soccer with 5-a-side football. Its completely meaningless. The Rugby World Cup is our major event, the Olympics are just a sideshow, the games will not get any front channel coverage outside of the already existing rugby countries.neiliog93 wrote:i think it's important that Ireland put money into their sevens programme now that rugby has been accepted as an olympic sport in sevens form. The game could grow quickly as a result, with some murmurings even suggesting it might eventually overtake the 15-man game in terms of global popularity (I don't agree with that, but the point is that it's certainly going to grow). We want to put in a respectable showing at the Olympics, and that involves investment.
There's also no doubt that a year or two of sevens rugby would have developed the likes of Conway more quickly than sitting on bench at Leinster. I agree with Dave's point about it not being effective for developing tight-five forwards, but it's definitely good for exposing outside-backs to a high intensity game and improving their skills. We're the only major rugby nation not to have a permanent sevens team, and I think there's definitely scope and obvious benefit in investing more in sevens rugby.
There is every doubt that Conway would have developed more quickly, theres no proof of that. Its like saying that one can become a better pianist if one practices using only the black keys. In order to become a top rugby player there are a huge number of skills to master, and Sevens obviates the need for most of them.
The idea that participating in sevens will improve the country at the real sport simply doesn't hold water. Fiji have progressively gotten worse over the years, Kenya have made no impression at all, and Scotland, the home of sevens, the european country that plays the most sevens out of any, are a rabble.
Sevens has its place, its the wind up radio of rugby. You use it in developing nations (in a rugby sense) but as soon as the infrastructure is built up, you get rid of it. The IRB has erred here by allowing the likes of Kenya and Fiji divert money away from the sport into the sideshow.
I have Bumbleflex
- Dave Cahill
- Devin Toner
- Posts: 25535
- Joined: January 24th, 2006, 3:32 pm
- Location: None of your damn business
- Contact:
Re: Rumour Mill
You're basing that on what? Sevens rugby doesn't make money. Even Fiji, the Brazil of Sevens, need an IRB subvention to participate, and they're the star attraction.simonokeeffe wrote:Like I said, Dublin leg of 7's world series would pay for it or go a long way to pay for it
I have Bumbleflex
Re: Rumour Mill
Think you're underestimating the lure of the Olympics there Dave, it is a massive draw and for unions in non-traditional countries it opens up funding they simply would never otherwise get.
I'm in Hungary at the moment and the union here are pushing 7's as the way to go. It's evolving into a different beast, no longer for tournaments you played at the end of a season but it's own sport with it's own fans. And in countries where player numbers are low it's the perfect middle ground.
I'm in Hungary at the moment and the union here are pushing 7's as the way to go. It's evolving into a different beast, no longer for tournaments you played at the end of a season but it's own sport with it's own fans. And in countries where player numbers are low it's the perfect middle ground.
Go on, give us a goo! https://twitter.com/DebRugby - rugby from Europe's eastern fringe.
Re: Rumour Mill
Dave Cahill wrote:You're basing that on what? Sevens rugby doesn't make money. Even Fiji, the Brazil of Sevens, need an IRB subvention to participate, and they're the star attraction.simonokeeffe wrote:Like I said, Dublin leg of 7's world series would pay for it or go a long way to pay for it
Australia fund their 7's team from holding the Gold Coast Tournament so there is no reason Ireland can't do the same.....
Fiji don't hold their own tournament that's why they need funding...
After showing Munster how to win a HC final in the first attempt we will now demonstrate how to retain the HC in the following season
Re: Rumour Mill
There's no way this could be in a 7s thread, no?
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”
Re: Rumour Mill
Rugby is dancing with the devil when it deals with the Olympic movement. If 7s takes off in the Olympics then it could easily become the only rugby played in these so called developing nations. 15 man rugby would be stillborn and rugby as we know it would struggle to break any new ground.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
- LeRouxIsPHat
- Jamie Heaslip
- Posts: 15008
- Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 7:49 pm
Re: Rumour Mill
Or other sports or general chat given that it has nothing to do with rugby?CiaranIrl wrote:There's no way this could be in a 7s thread, no?
I enjoy watching the odd 7s game but I don't want us to commit any money to it and really don't see the development benefits. The only thing I'd be in favour of is if it took over/ran alongside social TAG rugby in the summer.
- Dave Cahill
- Devin Toner
- Posts: 25535
- Joined: January 24th, 2006, 3:32 pm
- Location: None of your damn business
- Contact:
Re: Rumour Mill
No they don't, like every other tournament its getting a wedge from the IRB to offset losses because its doing a missionary job, the Gold Coast is the current site where Union and League are doing battle to break out of their Sydney strongholds, thats why the tournament was moved from Adelaide.Aussiedub wrote:
Australia fund their 7's team from holding the Gold Coast Tournament so there is no reason Ireland can't do the same.....
I have Bumbleflex
Re: Rumour Mill
Lads( Ladies ? ), "Rumor Mill" not general discussion mill !!