Ireland Under-20s squad?

[jezzer]

The Leinster centre pairing of Peter Robb and Rory O'Loughlin were quite impressive against England in the U19 international I saw at Donnybrook; Robb wasn't necessarily a big name in schools rugby [compared to O'Loughlin, for example] but looks like a bit of a find at No12. He's got good habits in terms of handling, passing and lines of running, and he looks like a guy who has pushed himself incredibly hard in terms of strength and conditioning [photo: http://www.sportsfile.com/id/738230/ ].

He was one of the few Irish players who was able to physically compete for the full 80 mins with what was an enormous English team. His opposite number was a wee tank, about 5'9 and 17 stone, and Robb was able to stop him in his tracks when it went one-on-one. He's a good, well-rounded player and maybe somebody who has gone a little under the radar but worth keeping an eye out for next season.

Was at that game too and the Irish centre pairing kept us in it, along with a great tackling effort from the whole team. They weren't players I was aware of at the time, but there is definite talent there. O'Loughlin probably looked the better player of the two, imo anyway, but Robb was also impressive.

[goreyguy]

Robb and ROL are promising alright, Robb sort of came out of nowhere this spring. Played for Rock last year but wasn't an obvious standout in the cup and wasn't involved with the schools team.

He is a big kid though and showed some more skills than I personally thought he had in the game against England. Sadly he broke a bone in his hand against France but I think he is fully healed now. ROL is another promising Michael's player, real prospect at 13.

Personally I love Conor McKeon's skillset and footballing ability but he is a small guy. Might limit him down the road, unlike say Ross Byrne who is a tall lanky guy at 10.

Biggest concerns are the size of our pack next year and scrumhalf. Biggest strength will be the backrow(again).

Looking at the other provinces next year(at this early time) looks to be a weak enough year for Ulster prospects while Munster might have their strongest year in some time. Of course we will remain the major contributor and will likely have the captain again with Leavy, hopefully he is healthy for the 6N.

[Peg Leg]

Robb and ROL are promising alright, Robb sort of came out of nowhere this spring. Played for Rock last year but wasn't an obvious standout in the cup and wasn't involved with the schools team.

He is a big kid though and showed some more skills than I personally thought he had in the game against England. Sadly he broke a bone in his hand against France but I think he is fully healed now. ROL is another promising Michael's player, real prospect at 13.

Personally I love Conor McKeon's skillset and footballing ability but he is a small guy. Might limit him down the road, unlike say Ross Byrne who is a tall lanky guy at 10.

Biggest concerns are the size of our pack next year and scrumhalf. Biggest strength will be the backrow(again).

Looking at the other provinces next year(at this early time) looks to be a weak enough year for Ulster prospects while Munster might have their strongest year in some time. Of course we will remain the major contributor and will likely have the captain again with Leavy, hopefully he is healthy for the 6N.

Is it time to start, moving the back-row players about the field positionally when they get to this level?

[hugonaut]

The Leinster centre pairing of Peter Robb and Rory O'Loughlin were quite impressive against England in the U19 international I saw at Donnybrook; Robb wasn't necessarily a big name in schools rugby [compared to O'Loughlin, for example] but looks like a bit of a find at No12. He's got good habits in terms of handling, passing and lines of running, and he looks like a guy who has pushed himself incredibly hard in terms of strength and conditioning [photo: http://www.sportsfile.com/id/738230/ ].

He was one of the few Irish players who was able to physically compete for the full 80 mins with what was an enormous English team. His opposite number was a wee tank, about 5'9 and 17 stone, and Robb was able to stop him in his tracks when it went one-on-one. He's a good, well-rounded player and maybe somebody who has gone a little under the radar but worth keeping an eye out for next season.

Was at that game too and the Irish centre pairing kept us in it, along with a great tackling effort from the whole team. They weren't players I was aware of at the time, but there is definite talent there. O'Loughlin probably looked the better player of the two, imo anyway, but Robb was also impressive.

Yeah, O'Loughlin was good alright. I had my eye on him because I remembered him well from his Senior Cup campaign. Robb I knew very little about, so his performance made a little more impact on me, probably because it was unexpected.

@GoreyGuy: I wouldn't be too worried about the pack for next season. I was really impressed with Connacht's Sean O'Brien for Roscrea and Irish U19s, and he's going into the Connacht Academy. He's a big chap already and if he gets a good year of strength and conditioning behind him I think he'll be a bit of a monster at U20s level.

Ross Molony [Michaels] is going into the Leinster Academy so hopefully he can add 4-5kg on to his frame, because he's a very rounded player – good ball-handler and good line-out jumper, just lacking the bulk to compete on an equal footing with the likes of the English second rows, who are always monsters. Typically guys who have captained their school [as both O'Brien and Molony did] are good workers and mature for their age, so if they can steer clear of injuries, I think they can make a lot of progress in a year.

There's also a guy who played for Irish U18 Clubs this season from the Harlequins academy called Kieran Treadwell [source: http://www.sportsfile.com/id/723835/ ] who looks like a contender as an U19 – very big and athletic. Ruddock is a good man for picking up the Exiles, so I think he might get a look in.

Strong backrow already in place with Leavy, Timmins and O'Donoghue and a good loosehead in Dooley, all of whom played in this year's tournament, so really it's just hooker and tighthead where we don't have any immediate stand-out candidates.

[Armchair]

The Leinster centre pairing of Peter Robb and Rory O'Loughlin were quite impressive against England in the U19 international I saw at Donnybrook; Robb wasn't necessarily a big name in schools rugby [compared to O'Loughlin, for example] but looks like a bit of a find at No12. He's got good habits in terms of handling, passing and lines of running, and he looks like a guy who has pushed himself incredibly hard in terms of strength and conditioning [photo: http://www.sportsfile.com/id/738230/ ].

He was one of the few Irish players who was able to physically compete for the full 80 mins with what was an enormous English team. His opposite number was a wee tank, about 5'9 and 17 stone, and Robb was able to stop him in his tracks when it went one-on-one. He's a good, well-rounded player and maybe somebody who has gone a little under the radar but worth keeping an eye out for next season.

Was at that game too and the Irish centre pairing kept us in it, along with a great tackling effort from the whole team. They weren't players I was aware of at the time, but there is definite talent there. O'Loughlin probably looked the better player of the two, imo anyway, but Robb was also impressive.

Yeah, O'Loughlin was good alright. I had my eye on him because I remembered him well from his Senior Cup campaign. Robb I knew very little about, so his performance made a little more impact on me, probably because it was unexpected.

@GoreyGuy: I wouldn't be too worried about the pack for next season. I was really impressed with Connacht's Sean O'Brien for Roscrea and Irish U19s, and he's going into the Connacht Academy. He's a big chap already and if he gets a good year of strength and conditioning behind him I think he'll be a bit of a monster at U20s level.

Ross Molony [Michaels] is going into the Leinster Academy so hopefully he can add 4-5kg on to his frame, because he's a very rounded player – good ball-handler and good line-out jumper, just lacking the bulk to compete on an equal footing with the likes of the English second rows, who are always monsters. Typically guys who have captained their school [as both O'Brien and Molony did] are good workers and mature for their age, so if they can steer clear of injuries, I think they can make a lot of progress in a year.

There's also a guy who played for Irish U18 Clubs this season from the Harlequins academy called Kieran Treadwell [source: http://www.sportsfile.com/id/723835/ ] who looks like a contender as an U19 – very big and athletic. Ruddock is a good man for picking up the Exiles, so I think he might get a look in.

Strong backrow already in place with Leavy, Timmins and O'Donoghue and a good loosehead in Dooley, all of whom played in this year's tournament, so really it's just hooker and tighthead where we don't have any immediate stand-out candidates.

Eoghan McKeever & Oisin Heffernan will fill the hole at tighthead and I am sure there are a few from Munster and Ulster off our radar that might step up there as well. Robb was with Belvo this year and apart from his size he didn't stand out at all. Hopefully his skill set continues to improve and he keeps improving. Nice to see a bolter every now and again

[dropkick]

In Munster there will be 6 academy players eligible for the U20s next season. Greg O'Shea (winger), David Johnston (utility back), Jack Cullen (scrumhalf), Jack O'Donoghue (8), Gearoid Lyons (outhalf) and John Madigan (lock). Some of those are U18s this year so might not make the U20s next year.

David Johnston is a good footballer as the Aussies say, Greg O'Shea is a sprinter with acceleration not many rugby wingers can match, small but have good skills too. John Madigan has played in the Ulster bank league for Dolphin, is 18 years old and highly rated. Gearoid Lyons is a very good kicker. I havn't seen enough of him to judge his overall game.


As always with U20 teams a few players spring up during the season that nobody saw coming. It looks like next seasons U20 squad could be strong again. Whatever about having a strong team, strong squads are equally important to make an impact in the JWC.


Does anyone know much about the Welsh setup? Do they go into Welsh academies at a younger age than Irish players? They seem to be physically more developed than the Irish players.

[JB1973]

In Munster there will be 6 academy players eligible for the U20s next season. Greg O'Shea (winger), David Johnston (utility back), Jack Cullen (scrumhalf), Jack O'Donoghue (8), Gearoid Lyons (outhalf) and John Madigan (lock). Some of those are U18s this year so might not make the U20s next year.

David Johnston is a good footballer as the Aussies say, Greg O'Shea is a sprinter with acceleration not many rugby wingers can match, small but have good skills too. John Madigan has played in the Ulster bank league for Dolphin, is 18 years old and highly rated. Gearoid Lyons is a very good kicker. I havn't seen enough of him to judge his overall game.


As always with U20 teams a few players spring up during the season that nobody saw coming. It looks like next seasons U20 squad could be strong again. Whatever about having a strong team, strong squads are equally important to make an impact in the JWC.


Does anyone know much about the Welsh setup? Do they go into Welsh academies at a younger age than Irish players? They seem to be physically more developed than the Irish players.

In welsh set up players enter the academies at 16 but i know at the ospreys region at age 15 all of the top players are given a specific 12 week training and education programme to ready for them for academy rugby (i''m guessing ireland have the same school leaving age?) , I know there is a huge focus on strength and conditioning at academy level and the players are getting bigger each year plus once they hit 16 they are pretty much full time players with their time split between college studies and the rugby academy. The college game is seen at the centre piece in youth development the games are shown in full on tv the night they are played and the players are well looked after and given the best in terms of facilities and coaching and treated almost the same as the professional players.
. In terms of youth rugby as a whole the school system in ireland is proably far stronger than in wales (the school game has been on the wane since the teachers strikes in the 80s) and at club level a lot of our youth sides are folding , there are several reasons for this but the main ones in my view are a) the wru have cut the funding for pretty much every junior grass roots side in wales (my club got £23,000 k 5 years ago but now get £2.5k) b ) football is on the rise big time in south wales two premiership sides are attracting kids to watch and play that rather than rugby.
The fact the regions are struggling for finance to recuit or even retain players has helped the under 20's get game a lot more game time with the senior regional sides than the irish lads get (lets face it it's far easier for a talented young player to make the breakthough at the dragons than it is for say leinster) so our 20's at proably more advanced than yours at this stage of their career (we had 3 out in japan on the national side tour who could have been at this competition patchell,robinson and howells ).


So while our best young players are now of a very high standard and will do well at test level and will proably get a good career in the regional game. However there are a lot less of them than say 20 years ago and while the future for the elite players looks very good for rugby as a whole in wales it is very worrying and the community game is the bedrock on whcih rugby in wales is built if that starts to crumble it will affect every thing including the test team


Looking at the state of both unions I'd say your far better placed to be succesful in the long haul

[goreyguy]

The Leinster centre pairing of Peter Robb and Rory O'Loughlin were quite impressive against England in the U19 international I saw at Donnybrook; Robb wasn't necessarily a big name in schools rugby [compared to O'Loughlin, for example] but looks like a bit of a find at No12. He's got good habits in terms of handling, passing and lines of running, and he looks like a guy who has pushed himself incredibly hard in terms of strength and conditioning [photo: http://www.sportsfile.com/id/738230/ ].

He was one of the few Irish players who was able to physically compete for the full 80 mins with what was an enormous English team. His opposite number was a wee tank, about 5'9 and 17 stone, and Robb was able to stop him in his tracks when it went one-on-one. He's a good, well-rounded player and maybe somebody who has gone a little under the radar but worth keeping an eye out for next season.

Was at that game too and the Irish centre pairing kept us in it, along with a great tackling effort from the whole team. They weren't players I was aware of at the time, but there is definite talent there. O'Loughlin probably looked the better player of the two, imo anyway, but Robb was also impressive.

Yeah, O'Loughlin was good alright. I had my eye on him because I remembered him well from his Senior Cup campaign. Robb I knew very little about, so his performance made a little more impact on me, probably because it was unexpected.

@GoreyGuy: I wouldn't be too worried about the pack for next season. I was really impressed with Connacht's Sean O'Brien for Roscrea and Irish U19s, and he's going into the Connacht Academy. He's a big chap already and if he gets a good year of strength and conditioning behind him I think he'll be a bit of a monster at U20s level.

Ross Molony [Michaels] is going into the Leinster Academy so hopefully he can add 4-5kg on to his frame, because he's a very rounded player – good ball-handler and good line-out jumper, just lacking the bulk to compete on an equal footing with the likes of the English second rows, who are always monsters. Typically guys who have captained their school [as both O'Brien and Molony did] are good workers and mature for their age, so if they can steer clear of injuries, I think they can make a lot of progress in a year.

There's also a guy who played for Irish U18 Clubs this season from the Harlequins academy called Kieran Treadwell [source: http://www.sportsfile.com/id/723835/ ] who looks like a contender as an U19 – very big and athletic. Ruddock is a good man for picking up the Exiles, so I think he might get a look in.

Strong backrow already in place with Leavy, Timmins and O'Donoghue and a good loosehead in Dooley, all of whom played in this year's tournament, so really it's just hooker and tighthead where we don't have any immediate stand-out candidates.

Excellent shout regarding Treadwell, surprised he isn't being picked up by an academy system.
Molony is talented alright, just needs to pack on a lot of weight to his frame.
Two other locks who will be in contention assuming they avoid injuries is John Madigan[u19 Munster] and Russell Blair[u19 Ulster], both started for the Irish u18 Club side in 2012. Blair won the Ulster youth player of the year in 2012 but sadly missed the majority of this season with a broken leg. Madigan just joined the Munster Academy and is talked about as being the more talented of the three locks who joined them this season.

[dropkick]

In welsh set up players enter the academies at 16 but i know at the ospreys region at age 15 all of the top players are given a specific 12 week training and education programme to ready for them for academy rugby (i''m guessing ireland have the same school leaving age?) , I know there is a huge focus on strength and conditioning at academy level and the players are getting bigger each year plus once they hit 16 they are pretty much full time players with their time split between college studies and the rugby academy. The college game is seen at the centre piece in youth development the games are shown in full on tv the night they are played and the players are well looked after and given the best in terms of facilities and coaching and treated almost the same as the professional players.
. In terms of youth rugby as a whole the school system in ireland is proably far stronger than in wales (the school game has been on the wane since the teachers strikes in the 80s) and at club level a lot of our youth sides are folding , there are several reasons for this but the main ones in my view are a) the wru have cut the funding for pretty much every junior grass roots side in wales (my club got £23,000 k 5 years ago but now get £2.5k) b ) football is on the rise big time in south wales two premiership sides are attracting kids to watch and play that rather than rugby.
The fact the regions are struggling for finance to recuit or even retain players has helped the under 20's get game a lot more game time with the senior regional sides than the irish lads get (lets face it it's far easier for a talented young player to make the breakthough at the dragons than it is for say leinster) so our 20's at proably more advanced than yours at this stage of their career (we had 3 out in japan on the national side tour who could have been at this competition patchell,robinson and howells ).


So while our best young players are now of a very high standard and will do well at test level and will proably get a good career in the regional game. However there are a lot less of them than say 20 years ago and while the future for the elite players looks very good for rugby as a whole in wales it is very worrying and the community game is the bedrock on whcih rugby in wales is built if that starts to crumble it will affect every thing including the test team


Looking at the state of both unions I'd say your far better placed to be succesful in the long haul

Thanks for the detailed reply. The rise of the soccer teams must be a massive concern alright. On the one hand its great to see but it damages rugby attendances. Are the Welsh fans warming to the Pro 12 yet because it seems to me that of all the countries in it they're the most vocal in talking the league down. I do have sympathy for them though. We're luckier here in that there were 4 provinces already.

In the long haul its difficult to predict what'll happen.

Watching a bit of Wales U20s, Jordan Williams looks a great talent.

[JB1973]

In welsh set up players enter the academies at 16 but i know at the ospreys region at age 15 all of the top players are given a specific 12 week training and education programme to ready for them for academy rugby (i''m guessing ireland have the same school leaving age?) , I know there is a huge focus on strength and conditioning at academy level and the players are getting bigger each year plus once they hit 16 they are pretty much full time players with their time split between college studies and the rugby academy. The college game is seen at the centre piece in youth development the games are shown in full on tv the night they are played and the players are well looked after and given the best in terms of facilities and coaching and treated almost the same as the professional players.
. In terms of youth rugby as a whole the school system in ireland is proably far stronger than in wales (the school game has been on the wane since the teachers strikes in the 80s) and at club level a lot of our youth sides are folding , there are several reasons for this but the main ones in my view are a) the wru have cut the funding for pretty much every junior grass roots side in wales (my club got £23,000 k 5 years ago but now get £2.5k) b ) football is on the rise big time in south wales two premiership sides are attracting kids to watch and play that rather than rugby.
The fact the regions are struggling for finance to recuit or even retain players has helped the under 20's get game a lot more game time with the senior regional sides than the irish lads get (lets face it it's far easier for a talented young player to make the breakthough at the dragons than it is for say leinster) so our 20's at proably more advanced than yours at this stage of their career (we had 3 out in japan on the national side tour who could have been at this competition patchell,robinson and howells ).


So while our best young players are now of a very high standard and will do well at test level and will proably get a good career in the regional game. However there are a lot less of them than say 20 years ago and while the future for the elite players looks very good for rugby as a whole in wales it is very worrying and the community game is the bedrock on whcih rugby in wales is built if that starts to crumble it will affect every thing including the test team


Looking at the state of both unions I'd say your far better placed to be succesful in the long haul

Thanks for the detailed reply. The rise of the soccer teams must be a massive concern alright. On the one hand its great to see but it damages rugby attendances. Are the Welsh fans warming to the Pro 12 yet because it seems to me that of all the countries in it they're the most vocal in talking the league down. I do have sympathy for them though. We're luckier here in that there were 4 provinces already.

In the long haul its difficult to predict what'll happen.

Watching a bit of Wales U20s, Jordan Williams looks a great talent.

The football is a huge problem so is the fact lots of rugby playing areas feel no affilation to their "region" its hard for say pontypridd fans to feel part of a region called the cardiff blues, that play in a cardiff kit, and play every game in cardiff not very inclusive is it? The crowds and success the irish sides get at provinical level puts us to shame and we have football to compete with but you have that plus the GAA sports so your proving it can be

Jordan williams is a cracking runner, he has played all his junior rugby at 10 but 15 or even wing is likely to be his best position, he could be the new shane williams and have a great career but he could also be the new matthew morgan and be too small and sleight to make an impact on the senior game.

The best under 20 talent imo is correy allen the blues and wales 7 centre he is injured at the minute but he has all the skills plus the size and power to go a long way in the game, if he stays fit hell be in the welsh test 23 in the next 12 months

[munster#1]

I am looking forward to seeing what Greg o shea has to offer, as a keen track and field athlete, i have met Greg in the ul training. He is turning his back on sprinting from next year on, and is a big loss to the sport. He is part of the national record holding 4x100 relay team which would make him faster than probably all pro rugby players in Ireland.
He was close to signing for the leinster academy according to a mutual friend, not sure what happened there tbh

[ormond lad]

I am looking forward to seeing what Greg o shea has to offer, as a keen track and field athlete, i have met Greg in ul training. He is turning his back on sprinting from next year on, and is a big loss to the sport. He is part of the national record holding 4x100 relay team which would make him faster than probably all pro rugby players in Ireland.
He was close to signing for the leinster academy according to a mutual friend, not sure what happened there tbh

Big loss to athletics. Hasn't been competing as much the past year or so with concentrating on rugby but still did well when he did race.
was on irish junior relay team that broke national 4x100 junior record recently.
top 2/3 in Ireland in 100/200 at his age grade for past few years
believe was close to signing with Leinster as iirc it was said elsewhere that he was looking at college in Dublin and would be in academy while up in college up in Dublin.
Would be quicker than most pro's if he's doing sub 11 100s

[munster#1]

I am looking forward to seeing what Greg o shea has to offer, as a keen track and field athlete, i have met Greg in ul training. He is turning his back on sprinting from next year on, and is a big loss to the sport. He is part of the national record holding 4x100 relay team which would make him faster than probably all pro rugby players in Ireland.
He was close to signing for the leinster academy according to a mutual friend, not sure what happened there tbh

Big loss to athletics. Hasn't been competing as much the past year or so with concentrating on rugby but still did well when he did race.
was on irish junior relay team that broke national 4x100 junior record recently.
top 2/3 in Ireland in 100/200 at his age grade for past few years
believe was close to signing with Leinster as iirc it was said elsewhere that he was looking at college in Dublin and would be in academy while up in college up in Dublin.
Would be quicker than most pro's if he's doing sub 11 100s

Ya from what i heard leinster were very keen to snap him up, and were offering him a lot of assistance with college and travel etc.
I.would be surprised if there are more than 2/3 pro rugby players as fast as him in world rugby. I know that sprinters are becoming popular in 7s. Hickie was a former sprinter as was zebo, but neither to the level of o shea.
Before it gets said, i am fully aware that fast is not equal to great rugby player, but the noise around Greg is good, so i am interested to see how this pans out for him

[ceemec]

I.would be surprised if there are more than 2/3 pro rugby players as fast as him in world rugby.

You'll be surprised in that case. Irish people simply aren't that fast. GOS runs the 100m in slightly under 11 seconds as a PB. He is listed as 11.00 flat for events only a couple of months ago. All of the renowned speedsters would be as quick and probably quicker: Varndell, Ngwenya, Hababa, Lachie Turner, Chavhanga, Wade, Howlett etc.

Chavhanga and Ngwenya would be definitely quicker and have clocked times that would have them as senior 100m finalists in Ireland. Howlett clocked 10.68 as a schoolboy which would be faster than anything O'Shea has clocked.

Now that he's quitting sprinting and concentrating on rugby, O'Shea's times will slow down as he puts on muscle and isn't training specifically for sprinting.

[dropkick]

Where Greg O'Shea is really fast is his acceleration. Hopefully he doesn't lose much speed as he bulks up but being U18 now he might get faster.

[ceemec]

If he manages to maintain his current speed and bulk up then he'll be a serious weapon. That sort of speed simply isn't found in this part of the world. If he can combine it will elusiveness, he's going to be a winner. Jordan Williams for Wales has really impressed me with his broken field running.

Great little video showcasing his talents from this year's tournament here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbKu534J6QU

[munster#1]

I await the surprise, i am not saying that there are no players faster than that, but it would be a very very small number, and i doubt any of the players you have listed could run sub 11 sec using correct timing equipment, most of the times being thrown around about how fast a rugby player can run is based on hand timing, which is fair inaccurate.

[ceemec]

Howlett, Chavhanga and Ngwenya have all done it in competitive sprints not just training in front of some bloke with a stop watch. Christian Wade ran 10.82 in schools athletics.....as a 16 year old. I would consider Turner possibly the slowest of the players I mentioned and he ran a competitive 100m for charity in 11.1 a few years ago in a one off race.

[Dave Cahill]

Howlett, Chavhanga and Ngwenya have all done it in competitive sprints not just training in front of some bloke with a stop watch. Christian Wade ran 10.82 in schools athletics.....as a 16 year old. I would consider Turner possibly the slowest of the players I mentioned and he ran a competitive 100m for charity in 11.1 a few years ago in a one off race.

Varndell ran a 10.54 for Colstons at a Schools meet, again properly timed.

[ceemec]

And Pierre Spies actually is sub 11 seconds too as a school boy before someone stuck a bike pump up his arse and inflated him!