Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

[jimbobjoe]

Did you hear Meyer's interview about picking Lambie at outhalf?

The word kicking was mentioned about 14 times in the space of three sentences, no mean feat.

And we are going to play a guy who is not a fullback at fullback and a winger who can not help his fullback out at 11. Against a team who is going to kick, and kick, and kick. When they do get behind us with their pace, we are going to need a covering back three who understand positioning, anchored by a full back who will be a game-reading, committed last line of defence.

This could be ugly from a defensive pov and Declan Kidney is not in a position to have that happen. I applaud his bravery, because if I was him I'd be playing Hurley, Duffy, David Kearney ahead of Zebo and would be looking at Zebo for the left wing if anything. Am I correct that Zebo has never played FB?

3 Ulstermen in the team and one on the bench,despite them being undefeated and the HEC finalists. Hmmm.

Zebo has played a bit of fullback for Con but that's it. Still, huge left boot and very good in the air so I think he'll be ok. Trimble on the wing is the worry in a kicking duel.

As for the Ulstermen situation. Who would you have picked? They are playing very well but a number of their star performers (Pienaar, Afoa, Payne etc.) are NIQ. Simple fact is, the lads who deserve it are pretty much all in there. Only other Ulsterman I would have considered is Jackson for the bench. The guy keeping Gilroy out is the same guy keeping him out up north.

I'd like to see Marshall in the squad. I appreciate that he's behind Pienaar at ulster but so would any of Ireland's scrumhalves. It seems Deccy will never drop Murray (from the matchday squad) unless he has a TOL type breakdown. So unfortunately Reddan will have to go if Marshall is ever going to be capped. Have to feel sorry for the chap.

[jimbobjoe]

When they played together in the A match last season, Dave Kearney looked a far better all round player than Zebo. Hell even Uncle Deccie agreed and put him in the Six Nations squad ahead of Zebo. He missed the summer tour because he had to have hip surgery. Now that he's back and has played a couple of games and done quite well too. But he may as well retire according to Golf Man because every other fit winger in the country has overtaken him in that time away bar Fionn Carr.

And you accuse Leinster fans of being one-eyed parochialists!

Kearney made his debut in 2009 - his progression should have been ahead of Zebo. This year, and arguably last Zebo has looked better than Kearney has ever looked. Same goes for Gilroy.

There's nothing parochial about it - I think options from all four provinces are better/will be better than him

As I said he is a safe pair of hands, but he is essentially a decent winger, who doesn't score whole lot, and can do a job at full back in an emergency.

He is Ian Dowling

Do any Leinstre fans really think that he is going to establish himself as a first choice in Leinster - or even in the 23???

Yes; he definitely will. To say he's Ian Dowling is just insulting.

[Oldschool]

Think you've both been smoking something to be honest

Gilroy is not an option to start at the moment - if BOd is fit then Zebo/ Earls and Trimble are all ahead of him
Moore? Loughney? Hagan han't developed as looked like he would

On no planet is Strauss ahead of Best

Ryan is better than McCarthy and Tuohy arguably is as well

Madigan and Keatley are both behind Jackson

Zebo and McFadden - as a starting wing there is no contest - McF is probably a better sub. Dave Kearney has loads ahead of him and isn't realistically in the mix

Is this post your opinion of these players, in which case you haven't got a clue OR
Is this post your opinion of Dekko's opinion of these players, in which case Dekko hasn't got a clue and you may know what you're talking about (See next line) OR
Is this post your opinion of Dekko's opinion of these players and you agree with him, in which case neither of you have a clue.

You're thinking too much again

If this is adressed to me - and who knows you it is adressed to, I'd be suprised to find many that would disagree with the points above

Careful lads, the Munster Thought Police are on patrol!

[Broken Wing]

As I said he is a safe pair of hands, but he is essentially a decent winger, who doesn't score whole lot, and can do a job at full back in an emergency.

He is Ian Dowling

Do any Leinstre fans really think that he is going to establish himself as a first choice in Leinster - or even in the 23???

Yes; he definitely will. To say he's Ian Dowling is just insulting.

I agree. He's just back from injury, has played twice and scored once. (That's a 1 try every 2 games scoring rate compared to Simon "second coming" Zebo's 1 try every 3 games this season.) He played at FB against Ospreys but if Isa was fit Baby K'd be on the wing ahead of Fionn Carr just like he was for Cardiff. He will definitely cement his starting place over the next few months.

[fourthirtythree]

Yes; he definitely will. To say he's Ian Dowling is just insulting.

Was this Ian Dowling fellow blessed with great pace and the ability to play all across the back line? Must have been a cracking player to be as good as Dave K.

That's just bizarre statement.

[dropkick]

11 is up for grabs IMO. Trimble is honest but not great, he's had lots of caps but always gets caught out by the best teams. Then it's who ever is starting for their provence and playing well - Zebo, Gilroy and D Kearney (fingers crossed on Luke) head that list. Earls and McFadden have to fit somewhere though prob starting 12/13 when Darce/BOD retire/get injured.

Had forgotten about Fitz - he is definitely ahead of D Kearney as well

I don't see him as any kind of option to be honest - even taking Darcy and BOD out you still have Earls/Bowe/Kearney/McFadden/Zebo/Fitz/Trimble/Gilroy dfinitely ahead of him - I'd also have Jones and Marshall ahead of him and reckon he'll be overtaken by Conway/O Halloran/McSharry/O Dea/O Malley

I think if everybody was fit, he'd be lucky to make the Wolfhounds squad to be honest

D Kearney was playing superb rugby last season. Popping up everywhere, offloading, good running lines and scoring tries. With an injury free run he has a chance to regain that form.

[Golf Man]

Yes; he definitely will. To say he's Ian Dowling is just insulting.

Was this Ian Dowling fellow blessed with great pace and the ability to play all across the back line? Must have been a cracking player to be as good as Dave K.

That's just bizarre statement.

Kearney and Nacewa are obvious starters in the back 3, and having them there means that the ability to play full back isn't really an advantage. A fit Fitzgerald will start ahead of him. If Darcy is selcted at 12, McFadden will be ahead of him. Conway amd O Malley could be ahead of him as well.

Not sure if Kearney has all this pace that you claim

Dowling won 2 Heineken Cups, was a great defender, and always made ground, but was not a great winger (socring about 1 in every 6 games), but absolutely never let Ireland down at HC level. Was never a realistic proposition for Ireland, but got a few caps

Kearney scores about 1 in every 5, doesn't really make that many mistakes, not going to cause any great concerns for opposition defenders either

Actually it is a bizarre statement - Dowling managed to be first choice for the top team in Europe for 3/4 years - Dave Kearney won't get to that level

He is a solid, dependable excellent squad player - be delighted for him to prove me wrong, but just don't see it at all

Dropkick - I'm not saying he's not a good player, but all that rugby is at Rabo level - Zebo and Gilroy for example have done it at Rabo and HC level.

[simonokeeffe]

we turn this into an arm wrestle/kicking duel we wont win, certainly not playing Saffers at own game

Zebo will have to counter attack, especially from garryowens, if theres even a sniff of something being on
any turnovers, advantages etc will have to go wide/be attacked with

[jezzer]

Did you hear Meyer's interview about picking Lambie at outhalf?

The word kicking was mentioned about 14 times in the space of three sentences, no mean feat.

And we are going to play a guy who is not a fullback at fullback and a winger who can not help his fullback out at 11. Against a team who is going to kick, and kick, and kick. When they do get behind us with their pace, we are going to need a covering back three who understand positioning, anchored by a full back who will be a game-reading, committed last line of defence.

This could be ugly from a defensive pov and Declan Kidney is not in a position to have that happen. I applaud his bravery, because if I was him I'd be playing Hurley, Duffy, David Kearney ahead of Zebo and would be looking at Zebo for the left wing if anything. Am I correct that Zebo has never played FB?

3 Ulstermen in the team and one on the bench,despite them being undefeated and the HEC finalists. Hmmm.

Zebo has played a bit of fullback for Con but that's it. Still, huge left boot and very good in the air so I think he'll be ok. Trimble on the wing is the worry in a kicking duel.

As for the Ulstermen situation. Who would you have picked? They are playing very well but a number of their star performers (Pienaar, Afoa, Payne etc.) are NIQ. Simple fact is, the lads who deserve it are pretty much all in there. Only other Ulsterman I would have considered is Jackson for the bench. The guy keeping Gilroy out is the same guy keeping him out up north.

There's much more to being a fullback than having a big boot. I think it's the most under-rated position on the pitch, in terms of difficulty. Positioning is massive and if you're not good at positioning (see early Rob Kearney) yourself for the flow of the game, your defence is reduced to nothing after a linebreak. Somebody who doesn't play FB at a decent level is dead cert guaranteed to have his positioning exposed in an international test. It IS going to happen. I don't care if that player is Zebo or anyone else, it WILL happen. To pick Zebo at FB when you will certainly be fielding a non-kicking left winger in Trimble/Gilroy/McFadden is a big risk. Trimble has had his own positioning troubles in defence before (and I am in general a Trimble fan).

As for the lack of Ulster players, Tuohy, Gilroy, Marshall, Jackson, Cave could have been bench options virtually on masse. I can see why we might not play Gilroy with Zebo at 15, but as above I wouldn't have played Zebo at 15.

[Cianostays]

Does anyone else have the horrible feeling that the rationale behind the Zebo at 15 call is very similar to the Luke at 15 call for the 2011 6 Nations? I seem to recall he was also a winger who was a good fielder and had a big boot on him. Look what happened

Also, as Jezzer has pointed out, this is a kicking team. They are a kicking team who are the kickiest team to ever kick. Did I mention the fact that they'll kick. Zebo has gone pretty well this season, is a more rounded player, and fully merits his selection........................................on the wing.

I hope he's a stormer but I've a bad feeling he'll be caught out. It seems an unnecessary risk with Earls fit and available also.

[CiaranIrl]

Kearney and Nacewa are obvious starters in the back 3, and having them there means that the ability to play full back isn't really an advantage. A fit Fitzgerald will start ahead of him. If Darcy is selcted at 12, McFadden will be ahead of him. Conway amd O Malley could be ahead of him as well.

Not sure if Kearney has all this pace that you claim

Dowling won 2 Heineken Cups, was a great defender, and always made ground, but was not a great winger (socring about 1 in every 6 games), but absolutely never let Ireland down at HC level. Was never a realistic proposition for Ireland, but got a few caps

Kearney scores about 1 in every 5, doesn't really make that many mistakes, not going to cause any great concerns for opposition defenders either

Actually it is a bizarre statement - Dowling managed to be first choice for the top team in Europe for 3/4 years - Dave Kearney won't get to that level

He is a solid, dependable excellent squad player - be delighted for him to prove me wrong, but just don't see it at all

Dropkick - I'm not saying he's not a good player, but all that rugby is at Rabo level - Zebo and Gilroy for example have done it at Rabo and HC level.

The reason Munster won two Heineken Cups was the pack + ROG, as well you know. Dowling just happened to be on the same pitch. Ben Cohn didn't win the 2003 world cup for the England team, their pack of Hill, Back, Dallaglio, Johnson etc + Wilkinson won it for them. If David Kearney was in those squads, he would have absolutely started ahead of Ian Dowling. Dowling and Cohn completely deserve their medals, but they aren't some sort of evidence of being all time great wingers.

If the only way he can be judged as better is the number of HEC medals he has, then are you happy to agree that McLaughlin is better than O Mahony, that Reddan is better than Murray, that McFadden is better than Earls etc. etc.?

[gleesonisgod]

Kearney and Nacewa are obvious starters in the back 3, and having them there means that the ability to play full back isn't really an advantage. A fit Fitzgerald will start ahead of him. If Darcy is selcted at 12, McFadden will be ahead of him. Conway amd O Malley could be ahead of him as well.

Not sure if Kearney has all this pace that you claim

Dowling won 2 Heineken Cups, was a great defender, and always made ground, but was not a great winger (socring about 1 in every 6 games), but absolutely never let Ireland down at HC level. Was never a realistic proposition for Ireland, but got a few caps

Kearney scores about 1 in every 5, doesn't really make that many mistakes, not going to cause any great concerns for opposition defenders either

Actually it is a bizarre statement - Dowling managed to be first choice for the top team in Europe for 3/4 years - Dave Kearney won't get to that level

He is a solid, dependable excellent squad player - be delighted for him to prove me wrong, but just don't see it at all

Dropkick - I'm not saying he's not a good player, but all that rugby is at Rabo level - Zebo and Gilroy for example have done it at Rabo and HC level.

The reason Munster won two Heineken Cups was the pack + ROG, as well you know. Dowling just happened to be on the same pitch. Ben Cohn didn't win the 2003 world cup for the England team, their pack of Hill, Back, Dallaglio, Johnson etc + Wilkinson won it for them. If David Kearney was in those squads, he would have absolutely started ahead of Ian Dowling. Dowling and Cohn completely deserve their medals, but they aren't some sort of evidence of being all time great wingers.

If the only way he can be judged as better is the number of HEC medals he has, then are you happy to agree that McLaughlin is better than O Mahony, that Reddan is better than Murray, that McFadden is better than Earls etc. etc.?

Compare the players DK is competing with with the ones Dowling was competing with. Fair play to him for edging out Mossy Lawlor, John Kelly and Anthony Horgan. It's not comparing like with like.

[fourthirtythree]

Yeah, jumped the shark with that troll GM. How many ways is it nonsense? Many, many. How would you rank Leinster at that time? 10th best in Europe? He wouldn't have had a contract here.

Great lad. Tackled well and ran into contact when he had the ball. How many tries did he score in the ERC again? Did he get two? I really can't remember but it really is bizarre to bring up his try scoring record as evidence of his ability. He wasn't really an attacking threat. Munster didn't want to complicate stuff at the time.

[suisse]

Had forgotten about Fitz - he is definitely ahead of D Kearney as well

I don't see him as any kind of option to be honest - even taking Darcy and BOD out you still have Earls/Bowe/Kearney/McFadden/Zebo/Fitz/Trimble/Gilroy dfinitely ahead of him - I'd also have Jones and Marshall ahead of him and reckon he'll be overtaken by Conway/O Halloran/McSharry/O Dea/O Malley

This is fishing comment. "Conway/O Halloran/McSharry/O Dea/O Malley" - why don't you include yourself in that list? DK benched in the 6 Nations, but soon he'll be overtaken by lads who won't even see a 6 Nations 23 man squad. For what its worth, I think D. Kearney is a better winger than Trimble (why is Trimble "definitely ahead of him"? - Trimble is an average winger) and I'd have him ahead of Ferg too.

[Munsterboy]

There's much more to being a fullback than having a big boot. I think it's the most under-rated position on the pitch, in terms of difficulty. Positioning is massive and if you're not good at positioning (see early Rob Kearney) yourself for the flow of the game, your defence is reduced to nothing after a linebreak. Somebody who doesn't play FB at a decent level is dead cert guaranteed to have his positioning exposed in an international test. It IS going to happen. I don't care if that player is Zebo or anyone else, it WILL happen. To pick Zebo at FB when you will certainly be fielding a non-kicking left winger in Trimble/Gilroy/McFadden is a big risk. Trimble has had his own positioning troubles in defence before (and I am in general a Trimble fan).

As for the lack of Ulster players, Tuohy, Gilroy, Marshall, Jackson, Cave could have been bench options virtually on masse. I can see why we might not play Gilroy with Zebo at 15, but as above I wouldn't have played Zebo at 15.

I never said there wasn't more than a big boot. My point was that Zebo has some of the raw materials (size, pace, kicking and good in the air). Whether he has the positional sense is something we'll find out. Yes, it's a risk but I'll wait to see if it pays off before I complain. On the basis of what I've seen of Zebo this season I'm more excited than concerned.

Gilroy and Cave? Both only cover one position and neither covers 12. McFadden is more versatile and crucially, is the only credible replacement for D'Arcy.

Marshall is playing well but, like Gilroy, he's not actually starting for the team you say should be better represented because of its results. If you want a small, quick scrum half who is starting in a successful team, Reddan is still your man.

Tuohy is a reasonable call. Ryan is probably the luckiest to be picked, given he's been playing at 6 and not particularly well. McCarthy and DOC are both in very good form.

Jackson is the OH I would have picked for the bench myself.

[suisse]

There's much more to being a fullback than having a big boot. I think it's the most under-rated position on the pitch, in terms of difficulty. Positioning is massive and if you're not good at positioning (see early Rob Kearney) yourself for the flow of the game, your defence is reduced to nothing after a linebreak. Somebody who doesn't play FB at a decent level is dead cert guaranteed to have his positioning exposed in an international test. It IS going to happen. I don't care if that player is Zebo or anyone else, it WILL happen. To pick Zebo at FB when you will certainly be fielding a non-kicking left winger in Trimble/Gilroy/McFadden is a big risk. Trimble has had his own positioning troubles in defence before (and I am in general a Trimble fan).

As for the lack of Ulster players, Tuohy, Gilroy, Marshall, Jackson, Cave could have been bench options virtually on masse. I can see why we might not play Gilroy with Zebo at 15, but as above I wouldn't have played Zebo at 15.

I never said there wasn't more than a big boot. My point was that Zebo has some of the raw materials (size, pace, kicking and good in the air). Whether he has the positional sense is something we'll find out. Yes, it's a risk but I'll wait to see if it pays off before I complain. On the basis of what I've seen of Zebo this season I'm more excited than concerned.

Gilroy and Cave? Both only cover one position and neither covers 12. McFadden is more versatile and crucially, is the only credible replacement for D'Arcy.

Marshall is playing well but, like Gilroy, he's not actually starting for the team you say should be better represented because of its results. If you want a small, quick scrum half who is starting in a successful team, Reddan is still your man.

Tuohy is a reasonable call. Ryan is probably the luckiest to be picked, given he's been playing at 6 and not particularly well. McCarthy and DOC are both in very good form.

Jackson is the OH I would have picked for the bench myself.

Ulster's case, take some, lose some. I wouldn't have Trimble anywhere near the team - or squad - even with all the injuries.

Earls; Bowe, Cave, Darce, Zebo; Sexton, Reddan; Heaslip (c), Henry, POM; Touhy, Ryan; Ross, Strauss, Healy

Cronin, Bent, Court, McCarthy/DOC, Henderson, Marshall, Jackson, McFadden

(4 Munster, 8 Ulster, 10 Leinster, 1 Connacht)

Fairer reflection on the standard of the Irish teams. I have included Strauss and Bent because they are legally eligable to play. But I don't agree with it.

[Donny B.]

When they played together in the A match last season, Dave Kearney looked a far better all round player than Zebo. Hell even Uncle Deccie agreed and put him in the Six Nations squad ahead of Zebo. He missed the summer tour because he had to have hip surgery. Now that he's back and has played a couple of games and done quite well too. But he may as well retire according to Golf Man because every other fit winger in the country has overtaken him in that time away bar Fionn Carr.

And you accuse Leinster fans of being one-eyed parochialists!

Kearney made his debut in 2009 - his progression should have been ahead of Zebo. This year, and arguably last Zebo has looked better than Kearney has ever looked. Same goes for Gilroy.

There's nothing parochial about it - I think options from all four provinces are better/will be better than him

As I said he is a safe pair of hands, but he is essentially a decent winger, who doesn't score whole lot, and can do a job at full back in an emergency.

He is Ian Dowling

Do any Leinstre fans really think that he is going to establish himself as a first choice in Leinster - or even in the 23???

Ian Dowling? And you think Oldschool's been on the wacky-baccy?

When DK first emerged I must admit I didn't think he's be a first teamer, but he's improved massively in the last two years. I'm very much glad to have him back in the mix for the HC games, which will hopefully allow us to move Isa back to full back. As for Zebo looking better than him last season, you're obviously wearing those Munster glasses again, remembering the tries he scored against mostly cr@p teams and forgetting the huge amount of defensive, handling and option-taking errors he made. Last season, Zebo had a bit of the Fionn Carr about him. Could be spectacular with ball in hand but concentration could wander resulting in very silly errors.

Now Zebo has improved a good bit this season, but if they were both in the Leinster squad and fit Kearney would still be ahead of him.

[Donny B.]

Does anyone else have the horrible feeling that the rationale behind the Zebo at 15 call is very similar to the Luke at 15 call for the 2011 6 Nations? I seem to recall he was also a winger who was a good fielder and had a big boot on him. Look what happened

Also, as Jezzer has pointed out, this is a kicking team. They are a kicking team who are the kickiest team to ever kick. Did I mention the fact that they'll kick. Zebo has gone pretty well this season, is a more rounded player, and fully merits his selection........................................on the wing.

I hope he's a stormer but I've a bad feeling he'll be caught out. It seems an unnecessary risk with Earls fit and available also.

Yeah, and against the one international team who are guaranteed to bombard him with high kicks all day. Just hope he gathers the first few and gets some confidence cause if he doesn't and he has a horror show (ala Luke) his confidence could be very badly damaged.

[hugonaut]

Zebo is going great at the moment and is clearly in the better form of the two. In fairness to DK, he's coming back off hip surgery and only started his season two weeks ago. The lad [Kearney Jnr] has got 17 starts [6 tries] for Irish U20s over two seasons and two positions [winger and fullback] under his belt, he's obviously a big talent.

They played in the same Wolfhounds team against the Saxons before the Six Nations, and it was abundantly clear that Kearney had the better game of the two – an opinion validated by the fact that even the ludicrously parochial DK picked the Leinster man for the bench against Wales over his Munster counterpart.

Golfman is entitled to his opinion, but he's a bluffer who's over-keen on stating said opinions as fact, so I'll leave him to it.

[jezzer]

I never said there wasn't more than a big boot. My point was that Zebo has some of the raw materials (size, pace, kicking and good in the air). Whether he has the positional sense is something we'll find out. Yes, it's a risk but I'll wait to see if it pays off before I complain. On the basis of what I've seen of Zebo this season I'm more excited than concerned.

Gilroy and Cave? Both only cover one position and neither covers 12. McFadden is more versatile and crucially, is the only credible replacement for D'Arcy.

Marshall is playing well but, like Gilroy, he's not actually starting for the team you say should be better represented because of its results. If you want a small, quick scrum half who is starting in a successful team, Reddan is still your man.

Tuohy is a reasonable call. Ryan is probably the luckiest to be picked, given he's been playing at 6 and not particularly well. McCarthy and DOC are both in very good form.

Jackson is the OH I would have picked for the bench myself.

You haven't watched much Ulster then? Cave has started at 12 this season and played well. "Small Paul" Marshall has started 6 out of 9 games for Ulster so far and played well. 3 tries in 6 games so far.