BOD/Lions

[simonokeeffe]

When is the squad announced roughly ?

The day after it's announced gently.

[Muriel]

When is the squad announced roughly ?

Just before the HEC semi last time anyway.

[Golf Man]

Its rare for captain and coach to be from the country - but would have thought it pretty much as rare for the captain to come from the same country three tours in a row. I cannot see BOD as captain - whoever is captain has to be guaranteed to start - as BOD was in 2005 and POC was in 2009. BOD is by no means at all guaranteed to start.

I wouldn't put it past him to get into the team but a guaranteed starter - no way. He may not even make the squad - if Gatland thinks that Tuilagi and Davies for example are better threats (and there is an arguement there) does he want the likes of BOD playing mid week (and does BOD want that?). This whole possible test team, possibly not in squad - can't see a captain being picked on that basis.

There are very few viable candidates for captaincy. Warburton is obviously favourite and I still think he will get it. Robshaw is going from strength to strength and I wouldn't rule him out of the test team - I would never have said that a year ago but have been hugely impressed with him. POC is still an option, but I don't think he'll get it. Ford is the only option from Scotland really and Hartley and Best would have to be ahead of him at the moment ( who could both be said to be captaincy options btw)

Who is pretty much a guaranteed starter at this stage? - Unless Warburton goes massively backward i can't see it being anyone else.

[suisse]

Its rare for captain and coach to be from the country

True but I'd be utterly amazed if Warbuton was not captain. If he's fit, he'll go as captain. Whether he makes the first test remains to be seen. I think Best has a good shout though. I think he's a nailed on starter.

[Golf Man]

Its rare for captain and coach to be from the country

True but I'd be utterly amazed if Warbuton was not captain. If he's fit, he'll go as captain. Whether he makes the first test remains to be seen. I think Best has a good shout though. I think he's a nailed on starter.

I don't see Best as nailed on Hartley has been playing particularly well and his throwing is probably better than Bests - I do think the two are well ahead of the pack and I would pick Best

If you actually go through the team there are very very few nailed on - I think that Warburton is and Roberts probably is as well. Pretty much every other position is open with maybe three players contesting the spot

[gleesonisgod]

I'm betting Warburton doesn't make it. He's made of glass. If he's fit(which I hope he is) he's first choice.

Strauss could tour or maybe even start.

[mtleinster]

Captain as per paddy power. (I like the look of Jamie at 80-1)

Bets will be settled on the initial official captain named for the 2013 tour.

S Warburton 1/3
R Ford 16/1
J Heaslip 80/1

C Robshaw 5/1
R Best 35/1
M Rees 80/1

P O'Connell 14/1
J Sexton 40/1
R Gray 150/1

A Wyn Jones 16/1
D Hartley 40/1
S O'Brien 150/1

B O'Driscoll 16/1

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'm a massive fan of Warburton but I don't think he's been great recently, Tupuric could well steal the jersey off him for Wales, he's a class act as well.

If Warburton is fit and firing come the 6N then I'd have him has captain though. It's not a bad shout that CiaranIrl made about Heaslip. There's plenty of other players in the pack who can provide power and aggression but his experience and nous at the back of the scrum and his work in defence and at the breakdown could be massive and he's in great form. Plus Denton is playing 6 for Edinburgh (as he was last season tbf) and the England jersey would appear to be up for grabs. Felatau is probably his biggest rival imo but they both have very different styles and I suppose it's about the style that Gatland wants to play. Having said that, can't see it happening.

Australia looked a bit better on Saturday, hopefully they'll keep improving because if they maintain some of the form they had in the Championship then the Lions series will be dreadful.

[Golf Man]

Don't really see Heaslip as having any chance of the captaincy - he is also far from a shoo in. Faletau, Denton and Morgan were all better than him in last years 6N, although he has started the season pretty well. They will take at the very most 2 specialist 8's, if that (the likes of Denton, SOB, Robshaw offer versatility for this position.

He'll probably make the squad and probably start but won't be captain (Best is a far better shout)

[suisse]

Australia looked a bit better on Saturday, hopefully they'll keep improving because if they maintain some of the form they had in the Championship then the Lions series will be dreadful.

Must be a brutal job picking and managing the Lions. Wouldn't wanna be the one to tell Hartley or the likes of Ashton they're gonna be trekking it with the Wednesday XV. There must be a lot of behind-the-scenes squabbling.

Love the Lions though. There seems to be a lot of mistrust of the concept in Ireland though, not just here, but across the internet. Is it cos some ignorant people in the SH can't differentiate between Britain and Ireland?

[fourthirtythree]

Don't really see Heaslip as having any chance of the captaincy - he is also far from a shoo in. Faletau, Denton and Morgan were all better than him in last years 6N,

Jesus, more RTE analysis. He was our best player against Wales. Our second row was destroyed by Wales and France in particular though. But keep up the Geo. Hook school of Heaslip bashing!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Personally, I lost my mojo for the Lions a bit in 2005. Woodward just ruined it for me.

Then the lack of crowds in SA didn't help either.

I'm still looking forward to this tour but it certainly doesn't capture my imagination the way it used to....not that I'm too old, the first one I watched was 2001.

[suisse]

Thought the 2nd test was one of the best games I've ever seen (The Pretoria game) and seeing 4 Leinstermen in the starting XV was excellent.

ALways loved waking up at 8am for a breakfast in the 12th Lock, Castleknock. The 2001 Lions was my first one too. Don't remember anything of 1997

[gleesonisgod]

Personally, I lost my mojo for the Lions a bit in 2005. Woodward just ruined it for me.

Then the lack of crowds in SA didn't help either.

I'm still looking forward to this tour but it certainly doesn't capture my imagination the way it used to....not that I'm too old, the first one I watched was 2001.

I don't know how you could lose your mojo after 2009. First and secont test were the two best games I've ever watched. I nearly wet myself when O'Driscoll was saying "bring it on"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5Rmc7Xj4lE

I think The Lions is the greatest thing in rugby.

[Golf Man]

Don't really see Heaslip as having any chance of the captaincy - he is also far from a shoo in. Faletau, Denton and Morgan were all better than him in last years 6N,

Jesus, more RTE analysis. He was our best player against Wales. Our second row was destroyed by Wales and France in particular though. But keep up the Geo. Hook school of Heaslip bashing!

1. Not sure what the performance of the second rows has to do with Heaslip
2. I compared him to his direct opposition in the 6N last year - I never said he was poor (even though I don't think he was at his best) just so happened that his direct opposites really stood out (Denton and Morgan were stand out players for Scotland and England to my mind)
3. Hook is always selective in his opnions and ignores what is plain to see in front of him - have a look at the last line that I wrote

[suisse]

Sean Maitland is now Scottish. Bolter for the Lions?

Maitland, Hogg and Visser. If SCotland can give them clean ball, that is a quality back 3

[simonokeeffe]

Maitland not ruled out by NZ u20 games or Maori? Good player but his eligibility looks suspect
I could be wrong but looks to me like they have another Steve Shingler on their hands

[thepunter]

Its rare for captain and coach to be from the country - but would have thought it pretty much as rare for the captain to come from the same country three tours in a row. I cannot see BOD as captain - whoever is captain has to be guaranteed to start - as BOD was in 2005 and POC was in 2009. BOD is by no means at all guaranteed to start.

I wouldn't put it past him to get into the team but a guaranteed starter - no way. He may not even make the squad - if Gatland thinks that Tuilagi and Davies for example are better threats (and there is an arguement there) does he want the likes of BOD playing mid week (and does BOD want that?). This whole possible test team, possibly not in squad - can't see a captain being picked on that basis.

There are very few viable candidates for captaincy. Warburton is obviously favourite and I still think he will get it. Robshaw is going from strength to strength and I wouldn't rule him out of the test team - I would never have said that a year ago but have been hugely impressed with him. POC is still an option, but I don't think he'll get it. Ford is the only option from Scotland really and Hartley and Best would have to be ahead of him at the moment ( who could both be said to be captaincy options btw)

Who is pretty much a guaranteed starter at this stage? - Unless Warburton goes massively backward i can't see it being anyone else.

Interesting thoughts Golfman.

Warburton and Robshaw for me have gone off the boil (robshaw particularly), and with the amount of injuries he has and Tipuric putting his hands up at seven for Wales, im not sure Warburton will get it. Hartley has no chance the way I see it. Best could be a bolter alright.

[Golf Man]

Its rare for captain and coach to be from the country - but would have thought it pretty much as rare for the captain to come from the same country three tours in a row. I cannot see BOD as captain - whoever is captain has to be guaranteed to start - as BOD was in 2005 and POC was in 2009. BOD is by no means at all guaranteed to start.

I wouldn't put it past him to get into the team but a guaranteed starter - no way. He may not even make the squad - if Gatland thinks that Tuilagi and Davies for example are better threats (and there is an arguement there) does he want the likes of BOD playing mid week (and does BOD want that?). This whole possible test team, possibly not in squad - can't see a captain being picked on that basis.

There are very few viable candidates for captaincy. Warburton is obviously favourite and I still think he will get it. Robshaw is going from strength to strength and I wouldn't rule him out of the test team - I would never have said that a year ago but have been hugely impressed with him. POC is still an option, but I don't think he'll get it. Ford is the only option from Scotland really and Hartley and Best would have to be ahead of him at the moment ( who could both be said to be captaincy options btw)

Who is pretty much a guaranteed starter at this stage? - Unless Warburton goes massively backward i can't see it being anyone else.

Interesting thoughts Golfman.

Warburton and Robshaw for me have gone off the boil (robshaw particularly), and with the amount of injuries he has and Tipuric putting his hands up at seven for Wales, im not sure Warburton will get it. Hartley has no chance the way I see it. Best could be a bolter alright.

Like a lot of the Welsh guys (if not all) they impress far more in internationals than with their club sides. Tipuric from what I've seen, which admittedly isn't a huge amount, seems a little over hyped - I'd absolutely expect Warburton to be in situ for the AIs and the 6N. Don't agree on Robshaw - Quins are second in the table and top of their HC group -> I don't think he will get into the team but he is an excellent captain and is a very very efficient player - practically no mistakes and takes the right options

I'd be very suprised if the captain was a bolter like Best. If and its a really big if - Warbuton isn't picked by Wales in the 6N and drops out of teh running, its wide open - I'd probably have POC then (far more likely than BOD to be in the team imo)

Long time to go obviously - there'll be 10 at most from Ireland though I'd say

[suisse]

Maitland not ruled out by NZ u20 games or Maori? Good player but his eligibility looks suspect
I could be wrong but looks to me like they have another Steve Shingler on their hands

Maori doesn't rule you out. Riki Flutely represented them.

Can't imagine Maitland leaving Canterbury for Glasgow - with all the fuss over his Scottish grandparents - if he wasn't looking for international rugger