Team V NZ 1st test. 2012

[Oldschool]

Quite frankly Hugo, you are defending the indefensible when you defend Murray.
He shouldn't have been selected for the RWC squad. The evidence for his continued selection has subsequently for both Munster and Ireland been very iffy.
Definition for iffy is not ready yet, and that's if you're being optimistic or kind. It wasn't and still isn't necessary to pick him for Ireland.
We have better options and we should be using them.
Not all of it has been his fault. He has been totally mismanaged, blooded at international level in a totally inappropriate way and as a result his own opinion of himself is grossly over-exaggerated. The ten caps he has got would have been better spent on Marshall, if we were going to take a punt on a player.
And that's what should have happened and it's still not too late for the gnome to do something about it.

I have no issue with selecting him for the RWC squad. We needed 3 scrumhalves. I had a small issue with giving him his first start in the opener as there was a sufficient schedule of warm-up games.

The crazy part was picking him to start against Italy and Wales and this bizarre tactic of using him as a primary ball carrier. He makes almost no yards, he's never made a clean break for Ireland and has beaten two defenders in total. NZ fanned at ruck time and might have been vulnerable to some action at the pillars, it appears both scrumhalves were under orders not to break.

We didn't need him for the RWC and his selection was a total punt and out of order. We could just as easily picked Marshall or Stringer (His experience alone was worth the trip) Having Murray even there lead to the inevitable - Dekko made him first choice at precisely the wrong time.

[ronk]

It was Murray or O'Leary, there were no other options

[Peg Leg]

It was Murray or O'Leary, there were no other options

For the squad- yes
For the team- No

[ronk]

It was Murray or O'Leary, there were no other options

For the squad- yes
For the team- No

Please explain in more detail (just in case Kidney/embedded journalist reads this).

[Oldschool]

It was Murray or O'Leary, there were no other options

Was Marshall fit. Was Stringer fit. If the answer to either is yes then there were options.

You could add Murphy from Connacht or even Williams from Munster.
There are always options. Paddy Wallace can play SH too, I believe. (ouch)

[suisse]

But he should not be making bad selection choices.

Yet you're talking about bringing/playing D. Kearney and D. Toner?

The selection errors were Murray at 9, McFadden at 14 and Zebo at 11. In my opinion. Others agree, others disagree. Kidney doesn't need to get the approval of leinsterfans.com before submitting his team because everyone has their own ideas. This is a website that has seen some people use the word "disappointing" to describe a team(s) selected by Joe Schmidt. When we're winning and losing, armchair or Internet fans are never happy.

[lummix]

Kidney now has too if there's any logic to him at all pick either (a) the same team adjusting for Ross(who would have started and darcy for earls, as If he believed they were his best team last week then surely he will give them another go or b he selects combinations that play regularly together, munster second row, Leinster backro, Leinster half backs, Leinster centres. I would take option b. If he goes somewhere in between, I give up cus we don't have a fn clue what were trying to do.

[Twist]

anyone know what the diddly dee potatoes banner in the stadium was about?

Yeah, they can f*ck off with this. A bunch of people who get upset if they perceive any "disrespect" to their culture (the Haka) shouldn't be resorting to stereotyped based unfunny humour. Have you ever told a Kiwi to make the man some f*cking eggs? It doesn't go down well. Kinda like in the movie, wahey!

[Amz]

I read on another forum that it's the catch phrase of Scottish-Indian "comedian" Danny Bhoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Bhoy

I've never seen his stuff, nor have I any desire to. Seems he's popular down there and obviously they think this is the height of hilarity.

Doesn't make me any less annoyed by it.

[Hickiefan]

It's ignorant is what it is. Jim Davison style 'humour' at best.

There was a very odd vibe in the stadium. Some kiwi supporters were dishing out abuse behind us like I've never experienced. There was a but of a scrap, not sure if a middle aged Irish man got fed up and popped the ringleader who was a young lad or what as I didn't see it but security just told everyone to stop boozing. There were some NZ ladies behind us who were mortified by the whole thing and wanted the idiots thrown out. I've been to grounds around the world and never experienced the like. Maybe Loftus Versfeldt was as bad outside the ground after the game but not during. Was honestly really bizarre. Heard reports from other Irish there that it was not an isolated incident. Was not expecting it at all. Just goes to show that we all have our idiot brigade.

Hopefully Christchurch will be better on all fronts but between injuries and Kidney's squad selection I'm not hopeful. A 15 point loss would be a result. I really feel for the team.

[Dexter]

There was a very odd vibe in the stadium. Some kiwi supporters were dishing out abuse behind us like I've never experienced. There was a but of a scrap, not sure if a middle aged Irish man got fed up and popped the ringleader who was a young lad or what as I didn't see it but security just told everyone to stop boozing. There were some NZ ladies behind us who were mortified by the whole thing and wanted the idiots thrown out. I've been to grounds around the world and never experienced the like. Maybe Loftus Versfeldt was as bad outside the ground after the game but not during. Was honestly really bizarre. Heard reports from other Irish there that it was not an isolated incident. Was not expecting it at all. Just goes to show that we all have our idiot brigade.

Some of that was caught on the TV.. a very brief shot of what sounds like the guy mentioned above getting pretty annoyed at some Kiwi's around him, standing up and giving it back.

[kendalgerty]

Kiwis are the oddest bunch. I was down for the RWC and a more polite and friendly people you could not meet, especilly after we beat Australia. But put them in front of their rugby team (or behind the wheel of a car, incidentally) and they completely change.

[Dexter]

Kiwis are the oddest bunch. I was down for the RWC and a more polite and friendly people you could not meet, especilly after we beat Australia. But put them in front of their rugby team (or behind the wheel of a car, incidentally) and they completely change.

I kinda agree with this (not sure about the driving part). Kiwi friends told me that after living in Ireland for a while they formed the impression that there is an OTT rugby obsession in NZ, especially with the national team. If they lose its always a disaster, no matter against whom or what the circumstances, and if they win it's just expected - but the performance is never good enough. They felt that we enjoyed the sport a lot more here, and that even though we're not as good it just seemed more fun.
There's a huge amount of bar stool critisism but actual support of the various teams isn't that great, a lot just aren't bothered turning up and will watch on TV.
I have no personal experience of this, I've never been, so just going on their observations.

[Xanthippe]

Kiwis are the oddest bunch. I was down for the RWC and a more polite and friendly people you could not meet, especilly after we beat Australia. But put them in front of their rugby team (or behind the wheel of a car, incidentally) and they completely change.

I kinda agree with this (not sure about the driving part). Kiwi friends told me that after living in Ireland for a while they formed the impression that there is an OTT rugby obsession in NZ, especially with the national team. If they lose its always a disaster, no matter against whom or what the circumstances, and if they win it's just expected - but the performance is never good enough. They felt that we enjoyed the sport a lot more here, and that even though we're not as good it just seemed more fun.
There's a huge amount of bar stool critisism but actual support of the various teams isn't that great, a lot just aren't bothered turning up and will watch on TV.
I have no personal experience of this, I've never been, so just going on their observations.

On that subject - there's an interesting article in today's NZ Herald where Chris Rattue questions why New Zealand never travel to the Pacific Islands and at one point wonders if "Maybe the NZRU fears the All Blacks losing should they regularly venture to Suva, Nuku'alofa and Apia - their one trip to the region did almost end in defeat to Fiji, after all"

Full article here but be warned - it's not very complimentary to Ireland

[Dave Cahill]

Kiwis are the oddest bunch. I was down for the RWC and a more polite and friendly people you could not meet, especilly after we beat Australia. But put them in front of their rugby team (or behind the wheel of a car, incidentally) and they completely change.

I kinda agree with this (not sure about the driving part). Kiwi friends told me that after living in Ireland for a while they formed the impression that there is an OTT rugby obsession in NZ, especially with the national team. If they lose its always a disaster, no matter against whom or what the circumstances, and if they win it's just expected - but the performance is never good enough. They felt that we enjoyed the sport a lot more here, and that even though we're not as good it just seemed more fun.
There's a huge amount of bar stool critisism but actual support of the various teams isn't that great, a lot just aren't bothered turning up and will watch on TV.
I have no personal experience of this, I've never been, so just going on their observations.

On that subject - there's an interesting article in today's NZ Herald where Chris Rattue questions why New Zealand never travel to the Pacific Islands and at one point wonders if "Maybe the NZRU fears the All Blacks losing should they regularly venture to Suva, Nuku'alofa and Apia - their one trip to the region did almost end in defeat to Fiji, after all"

Full article here but be warned - it's not very complimentary to Ireland

The reason NZ don't go to the Islands is because the Islanders don't want to play them at home. Its worth more for them financially to play New Zealand in the larger NZ grounds where they get paid their share of the gate in NZ dollars