Team V NZ 1st test. 2012

[Skinfull]

ok... so kick off... what time will it be in Dublin when the game starts? I've heard a few different times and I dont wanna miss a second of this game!

[Donny B.]

ok... so kick off... what time will it be in Dublin when the game starts? I've heard a few different times and I dont wanna miss a second of this game!

8.35

[RichardP]

I'm generally quite happy with team

Earls at centre is interesting. He was one of our best players in 6N and playing him with BOD can only improve him and generally it will be an exciting combination. Earls stupidly went public saying he wants to play centre but I don't think that should be held against him. He has been a good player all year for club and country and playing with BOD will help him a lot. No complaints there.

McFadden on the wing instead of centre is another area of debate. McFadden seems to be a jack of all trades and master of none as another poster pointed out. Good solid player in all aspects but I'm happier with Earls there

Zebo on wing. Happy enough here. People are on his back about his defensive liabilities which are valid but he is an exciting talent and has bucket loads of potential. He is a natural finisher and we could do with that hopefully in this series. If Gilroy had travelled and started here instead of him there would have been no arguments from me but Zebo is making his debut and I think people should lay off a little bit and get behind him.

Murray instead of Reddan. Murray is the future and it is important that he builds a partnership with Sexton. A lot of Leinster fans on Murray's back but he is a young player just after finishing his first full season and he has loads of potential and is a good player. I probably would have preferred Reddan to start because of the relationship he already has with Sexton and his style of play but I also think Reddan coming off bench will make a far better impact than Murray would coming off bench.

Delighted for Fitzpatrick on his debut. Was only option really with Ross being injured. Could be in for long day but he is a good technical prop so hope he responds well to the pressure he will undoubtedly come under. Hope Loughney gets decent amount of time also so we can see what he can do at that level.

So happy with the team overall. DOC out of time and probably would not be in panel if it were at full strength fitness wise. Would have prefered Toner in squad but it is a start and hopefully DOC will be moved on after this tour. D'arcy also not in match day squad is probably the right move. He was terrible for Ireland in 6N and is probably heading the same road as DOC. While saying that though D'arcy finished the year quite strong with BOD back but I can understand the logic for dropping him for Earls. Also ironic how so many people are now saying Wallace should be in team after the abuse he took over the years and I agree that he should have been in squad based on his form. Interesting how things can change

Also a lot of people on Kidneys back over the changes. I'm no fan of his and would much rather Schmidt to be Irish coach like the vast majority of people on this Island, but Kidney is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He is trying things and probably has one eye on the future by what he is doing. I don't agree with people hoping that Ireland are beaten badly over the test series. If Ireland can win one of the games it will ne one of the best results in the history of Irish rugby. A lot of players in this team and squad have given a lot over the years to Irish rugby and this would be a highlight in their career. Do I think it will happen? No probably not but does that mean I support them any less. Not a chance. People wishing we lose by cricket scores just so Kidney might be sacked can't call themselves real fans. The players at the very least deserve all our support. As I said I'm no fan of Kidney but I would not let that get in the way of supporting players like BOD and ROG and Best and all of the boys who will go out and give everything for this country

Excellent post

[thepunter]

right, there seems to be genuine confusion all over as to what time the game kicks off. Paddy power says 835, a couple of online places say 735, and the lads on Dropkickrugby.com think its 735.

Which is it? 835 and i can manage a few pints saturday night. 735, and I wont get out of the bed if I have beers Friday.

Help?

[hugonaut]

0835 in Ireland

[thepunter]

Even Paddy Wallace would have made more sense in this team.

After his performance in the HEC Final, I'd have started Paddy Wallace.

after his performances since he came back this season, I'd have at least had him on teh bench. He has been superb

[Cianostays]

Fair play to you and your source CT

Very excited for this game now. Perhaps it's unfounded optimism but I think we'll go well. I reckon the defensive system will be aggresive and, although the players may not be giants, we do have some players who can make big impact tackles (Healy, Best, Ryan, Tuohy, SO'B, Sexton, BO'D and Ferg are all big hitters). Hit the backstards hard and early and let them know they are in for one hell of a fight

Offensively, in the past 2 games, BO'D has put people into space leading to tries. NZ are obviously a big step up in class but, if he can put Earls into space..................game on

A massive test for the pack at scrum time and the breakdown but they really need to adopt the following attitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bzK8r4c6Xc&feature=fvst

Time to for the senior players to demand a career defineing performance from themselves. Time to deliver. Believe.

[Donald]

Good team with a blend of youth and experience. Kidney knows he is on the ropes so was "beated" into naming a very experimental team for the 1st test and if it fails he can give some excuses and still has two more tests to play. However in saying that I am happier with this team than the tried and trusted so thank you Deccie. If we cant experiment in 6 Nations each year then we need to look at a minimum of one summer test and AI test where we can experiment. However I still would be happier to see Reddan at SH as I don't really rate Murray and does not play well with Sexton. Also would prefer to see Fergie Ferg either in the centre or on the bench to come into the centre later in the game.

[hugonaut]

A massive test for the pack at scrum time and the breakdown but they really need to adopt the following attitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bzK8r4c6Xc&feature=fvst

Wrong. They need to adopt this attitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwq5cMFPkK8

Admittedly, this is my answer to everything.

[sid]

No, this attitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE

[hugonaut]

No, this attitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE

Touché. Nobody can compete with the infamous "geography teacher sweat pattern".

[future international]

Threw together a few betting picks for the weekend, including this game and the JWC on my blog here http://greyhoundowner.blogspot.ie/2012/ ... nting.html. I'm sure there are few different opinions so let me know what you think.

[rookie]

Good team with a blend of youth and experience. Kidney knows he is on the ropes so was "beated" into naming a very experimental team for the 1st test and if it fails he can give some excuses and still has two more tests to play. However in saying that I am happier with this team than the tried and trusted so thank yo cant experiment in 6 Nations each year then we need to look at a minimum of one summer test and AI test where we can experiment. However I still would be happier to see Reddan at SH as I don't really rate Murray and does not play well with Sexton. Also would prefer to see Fergie Ferg either in the centre or on the bench to come into the centre later in the game.

Reddan was never as good as Murray at this age.

[ronk]

Reddan was never as good as Murray at this age.

Perhaps. Kidney didn't pick him though.

[ellandleinster]

I am sort of looking forward to this game and am happy with the selection. looked at the player listings of both sides today in the IT and it may be (and probably is) totally rash optimism but I did not see many if any total mismatches and I think with a strong sense of belief and a totally agressive approach from the off we have a chance. From a purely personal perspective I am sick to death of dragging myself out of bed on a saturday morning only to see us take a hammering or even worse a fighting defeat. (At least with the hammerings i can just go back to bed berating myself for my stupidity in getting up in the first place !!)

I also think that Kidney to his credit has taken a brave approach and stance albeit he may have had no other options. I too am no great fan of his but he must know he is under a lot of pressure and that the stakes are high. I know what people are saying about the contractual issues making him unsackable but I think if we take a real pasting which could easily happen he will be under real pressure given Leinster's Hcup successes. Tickets need to be sold for the AI's etc and I would not be surprised if Dekko falls or is pushed onto his sword if things go badly wrong in NZ.

in any event come on you boys in green.

[ronk]

I am sort of looking forward to this game and am happy with the selection. looked at the player listings of both sides today in the IT and it may be (and probably is) totally rash optimism but I did not see many if any total mismatches and I think with a strong sense of belief and a totally agressive approach from the off we have a chance. From a purely personal perspective I am sick to death of dragging myself out of bed on a saturday morning only to see us take a hammering or even worse a fighting defeat. (At least with the hammerings i can just go back to bed berating myself for my stupidity in getting up in the first place !!)

I also think that Kidney to his credit has taken a brave approach and stance albeit he may have had no other options. I too am no great fan of his but he must know he is under a lot of pressure and that the stakes are high. I know what people are saying about the contractual issues making him unsackable but I think if we take a real pasting which could easily happen he will be under real pressure given Leinster's Hcup successes. Tickets need to be sold for the AI's etc and I would not be surprised if Dekko falls or is pushed onto his sword if things go badly wrong in NZ.

in any event come on you boys in green.

Kidney is a master at playing the political game. He hasn't really come under that much pressure at all, someone else is always there to take the blame. There's nothing brave about his selection, he's looking after his base knowing that he can count on their support, it's a masterstroke. He has excuses for big failure if he needs to use them, the result is unimportant now.

I've been speaking to Munster fans today who've been practically wetting themselves in excitement. They got exactly everything they've been looking for. Every Munster player on the tour is in the squad except Sherry (he of the one Heineken Cup start). The two players with the worst form get dropped to the bench (DOC and ROG) but are still around. BOD is being moved around to accomodate Earls. Young talents Zebo and O'Mahony go straight into the starting team. There are no fit Munster players at home with any claim to be on the tour, not even close, they all got picked.

It's like all those bad selections are forgotten forever. He experimented by doing exactly what Munster fans have been calling for. But this isn't new selection policy, it's conservative Kidney. We're storing up the same old problems where form isn't really rewarded and players are left outside the setup too easily.

Ulster finally got to the point where they're genuine contenders and there are no excuses to easily ignore players, Connacht have Heineken Cup experience. This should be brilliant news for the development of Irish rugby. It's not really working out that way. It'll take a lot more than this to persuade me that Kidney is progressive and actively trying to play a modern game reflective of the current state of Irish rugby rather than a talented but limited provincial hack.

[tate]

ronk that is begrudgery taken to a new level. Leave the petty provincial sh!t aside at least until you've seen the game.

[Golf Man]

Kidney is a master at playing the political game. He hasn't really come under that much pressure at all, someone else is always there to take the blame. There's nothing brave about his selection, he's looking after his base knowing that he can count on their support, it's a masterstroke. He has excuses for big failure if he needs to use them, the result is unimportant now.

I've been speaking to Munster fans today who've been practically wetting themselves in excitement. They got exactly everything they've been looking for. Every Munster player on the tour is in the squad except Sherry (he of the one Heineken Cup start). The two players with the worst form get dropped to the bench (DOC and ROG) but are still around. BOD is being moved around to accomodate Earls. Young talents Zebo and O'Mahony go straight into the starting team. There are no fit Munster players at home with any claim to be on the tour, not even close, they all got picked.

It's like all those bad selections are forgotten forever. He experimented by doing exactly what Munster fans have been calling for. But this isn't new selection policy, it's conservative Kidney. We're storing up the same old problems where form isn't really rewarded and players are left outside the setup too easily.

Ulster finally got to the point where they're genuine contenders and there are no excuses to easily ignore players, Connacht have Heineken Cup experience. This should be brilliant news for the development of Irish rugby. It's not really working out that way. It'll take a lot more than this to persuade me that Kidney is progressive and actively trying to play a modern game reflective of the current state of Irish rugby rather than a talented but limited provincial hack.

And you are the master of provincial bullshit

Leinster - 12 in the overall squad, 10 in the match day squad, Ross is injured - Darcy misses out, which is being welcomed by most posters

Munster - 8 in the overall squad, 7 in the match day squad - Sherry misses out which most agree with (mot importantly here is the dropping of DOC to the bench - with POC out I did not see this happening - he is effectively down to 4th choice lock - again a good thing

Ulster - 7 in the overall squad, 4 in the match day squad - Marshall misses out whoch again most agree with, Henry is unlucky (with McL being the beneficiary), Trimble is probably unlucky (McF/SZ the beneficiaries)

Connacht - 3 in the overall squad, 1 in the match day squad - Wilkinson and McCarthy miss out - both were late call ups and I would imagine most agree

Can you please post here what team you would have selected from the 30 man squad?

The selection I expected (once Ross was out) was

CH/RB/DF/DR/DOC/SOB/CH/JH/CM/JS/GD/BOD/KE/AT/RK (SC/RL/DT/POM/ER/ROG/McF) => Leinster 7 (3), Munster 4 (2), Ulster 4 (1), Connacht (1)

This election has the same number of Leinster & Connacht players in the 22 and 1 more/less Munster/Ulster player, but is a far bolder selection and something that we haven't seen in years - actual experimentation against a top team (something people have been calling out for ages)

By all means criticise Kidney for his game plan and his record, but do you not get tired of being on autopilot and just giving a stock response to everything that happens with the Irish team???

The team selection is forward thinking and should be applauded - the gameplan is something else, but lets actually wait until we see it

[ceemec]

It possibly is, Tate and I don't think DK is that conniving to include players from his own province in such a manner. As I've said previously though, he is far, far more comfortable introducing players quickly from his own province to the side than from elsewhere though. Take the players that have been brought into the match day squad during his time: POM, Zebo, Earls, SOB, Ross, Ryan, Tuohy, Healy, Murray. Now take a look through the respectvive experience of each player and how long they've been knocking on the door. Ross's non inclusion was insanity. SOB started one game against Samoa in 2010 and had one or two sub appearances and was given a start in the 6N only when both Ferris and Heaslip were unavailable. Leamy had been keeping him out up until then when he was a few months short of being named European player of the year. Tuohy was given a cap due to an injury crisis in 2010 where he was very impressive and hasn't seen a minute since. Healy had about 50 Leinster caps and a HEC winning medal when injury allowed him to get into the side. Sexton, in fairness, was brought in and credit to DK but he has rotated him and dropped him for a now inferior player that he's more familiar with.

Compare that with POM and Zebo who are both starting on the back of their first real breakthrough seasons when there were other experienced options available that have been capped such as Jennings, Henry, McLoughlin, Muldoon, Trimble etc. Ryan was straight into the Irish 22 without ever having started a HEC game. Murray was in on the back of a few games. Earls was given a start on the back of a similar number of appearances.

I'm happy enough to see those guys given a chance as quickly as they have been and they certainly haven't let Ireland down but there's a very strong case that DK has one rule for players that he has more information and access to via his old set up and another rule for those from other provinces.

Regardless, it's an exciting team and, whilst I don't think we stand much of a chance, I look forward to it greatly. Can't be anything but entertaining!

[Logorrhea]

I've been speaking to Munster fans today who've been practically wetting themselves in excitement. They got exactly everything they've been looking for. Every Munster player on the tour is in the squad except Sherry (he of the one Heineken Cup start). The two players with the worst form get dropped to the bench (DOC and ROG) but are still around. BOD is being moved around to accomodate Earls. Young talents Zebo and O'Mahony go straight into the starting team. There are no fit Munster players at home with any claim to be on the tour, not even close, they all got picked.

It's like all those bad selections are forgotten forever. He experimented by doing exactly what Munster fans have been calling for. But this isn't new selection policy, it's conservative Kidney. We're storing up the same old problems where form isn't really rewarded and players are left outside the setup too easily.

Ulster finally got to the point where they're genuine contenders and there are no excuses to easily ignore players, Connacht have Heineken Cup experience. This should be brilliant news for the development of Irish rugby. It's not really working out that way. It'll take a lot more than this to persuade me that Kidney is progressive and actively trying to play a modern game reflective of the current state of Irish rugby rather than a talented but limited provincial hack.

Its sickening isnt it. Good post.