Kidney OUT

[sid]

the IRFU is not run by idiots. There are financial consequences in retaining the services of an inadequate head coach too.

I haven't seen any evidence for this so far.

[Blue not red blood]

I have a brilliant idea.

Maybe the Lions could take Kidney off our hands

[tate]

I have a brilliant idea.

Maybe the Lions could take Kidney off our hands

The Lions are sh!t anyway, so I vote yes!!

[Ultra Vires]

New Zealand are a bl**dy good team but there is no way we should be losing 60-0 to anyone. That's the kind of score that gets put on minnows at the world cup, not treble HC winners. It's beyond embarrassing. We'll be lucky to ever be invited back to tour there again. All Blacks won't want to waste their time with these training matches against us.

We have to emulate the RFU and get rid of our Johnson and build this team again with a modern playing style and a Kiwi coach.

[Vamos los azules]

I have a brilliant idea.

Maybe the Lions could take Kidney off our hands

Only the IRFU would hire Kidney at the moment.

[RichardP]

Not a peep on this thread for ten days then all the slieveens feel it's safe to come out and vent their spleens again. Hardy men!

[RichardP]

Double post

[sid]

Not a peep on this thread for ten days then all the slieveens feel it's safe to come out and vent their spleens again. Hardy men!

Go on, defend him. I could do with a laugh.

[caomhan]

Any of the top flight coaches would be sacked and told to pay for their own flight home after that debacle and its debacle after debacle with this coach. IRFU need to look at themselves and ask if they are willing to accept these kinds of defeats . The team doesnt play for him, they only seem to turn up when everyone writes them off and they are massive underdogs and the pride in the jersey is absent. His selections and tactics are dire. No game time for one of our best preforming centres in Cave, no game time for henry or marshell, fitzpatrick despite proving himself is plonked on bench for the rest of series i bet he would be replaced by hayes if he was still available. Wallace drafted in from a beach in Portugal what does that say to the other players i dont think kidney has any eye for talent whatsoever and is the farthest thing from a progressive coach you can get. What age is cruden what age is kane same age / younger than Madiagn, Rys ruddock, D Ryan et al. whole ireland setup it needs a complete overhaul id nearly change the name at this stage its so bad.

[ronk]

It's the same reactive shyte from him. Totally unprepared for the first test, change tactics (to what we should have done from the beginning) and back to unprepared for the 3rd. After we showed we could compete at the breakdown, they had a look and we made no effort to stay ahead of them.

Coming close in the 2nd test didn't spur us on, it made us complacent and unfocused. Concentration was really poor today.

[cwebber82]

Kidney's limitations have been exposed for a while now. I doubt he would have any sustained success as a coach outside Munster. The first year in charge of Ireland was a one off. We have not had any consistency since. Very, very limited coach and his "amateur psychologist" approach to management would not wash with top class players.

Having said all that Schmidt would be favourite to replace him and I'd rather have Kidney managing Ireland than Schmidt leaving Leinster to manage Ireland.

Anyway, the media are in Kidney's corner. Can you imagine the abuse Eddie O' Sullivan would have got after that rubbish? Thornley, O'Reilly, Fanning and their pals have a man crush on Kideny. They will have plenty of excuses for him unlike the vitriol they unleashed on EOS after the November 2005 internationals. Shame on them.

[Dexter]

Kidney's limitations have been exposed for a while now. I doubt he would have any sustained success as a coach outside Munster. The first year in charge of Ireland was a one off. We have not had any consistency since. Very, very limited coach and his "amateur psychologist" approach to management would not wash with top class players.

Having said all that Schmidt would be favourite to replace him and I'd rather have Kidney managing Ireland than Schmidt leaving Leinster to manage Ireland.

Anyway, the media are in Kidney's corner. Can you imagine the abuse Eddie O' Sullivan would have got after that rubbish? Thornley, O'Reilly, Fanning and their pals have a man crush on Kideny. They will have plenty of excuses for him unlike the vitriol they unleashed on EOS after the November 2005 internationals. Shame on them.

I'm not sure there's much for the media to defend at this stage. Today was completely and utterly unacceptable (as was the way we arrived at today over the last few years) and would not be tolerated in any other tier 1 rugby nation.
The national team has declined steadily and relatively quickly over 3 years or so. The gap to NZ, and probably the other SH countries, has widened, and we have fallen behind England and Wales. The IRB ranking is just as precarious as it was 4 years ago but there is nothing on the horizon to brighten the outlook.
It's reached crisis point, if not gone past.

[Logorrhea]

Someone over on MF posted this. Stark reading.

Kidneys record post-2009: 14 wins 1 draw 21 defeats (38% win rate)
Kidneys record post-2009 against Top 6 sides: 4 wins 1 draw 16 losses (19% win rate)

[lummix]

It was a poor performance, you could argue the players looked tired etc. I think the right team was selected HOWEVER the really concerning thing is once we seperate combinations that play regularly together the team goes to bits, again we looked clueless in defence and attack which points to a poorly prepared teams where the players are unsure what they are being asked to do. The fact that Wallace was on a beach and then straight into the team point to the fact that we haven't looked to try and develop our gameplan a bit, otherwise how could you bring in a player who hasn't been in the squad for the past month... Kidney either has no gamplan structure etc or he has lost the players either way he can't continue in the job

[hugonaut]

Kidney's limitations have been exposed for a while now. I doubt he would have any sustained success as a coach outside Munster. The first year in charge of Ireland was a one off. We have not had any consistency since. Very, very limited coach and his "amateur psychologist" approach to management would not wash with top class players.

Having said all that Schmidt would be favourite to replace him and I'd rather have Kidney managing Ireland than Schmidt leaving Leinster to manage Ireland.

Anyway, the media are in Kidney's corner. Can you imagine the abuse Eddie O' Sullivan would have got after that rubbish? Thornley, O'Reilly, Fanning and their pals have a man crush on Kideny. They will have plenty of excuses for him unlike the vitriol they unleashed on EOS after the November 2005 internationals. Shame on them.

Fanning certainly doesn't, not by any means. I don't know how you can come to that opinion. O'Reilly gives Kidney some leeway, but isn't a fan club member. GT is all about Kidney. Farrelly is even more firmly in the DK camp, as in "DK can do no wrong".

Fairly or unfairly, the buck stops with the head coach ... that's just how things go. You're responsible for performances and you're responsible for results. DK got plenty of credit for a Grand Slam [which Brian O'Driscoll delivered to him on a plate, in my opinion], and in fairness to him, was quick to point out that Eddie O'Sullivan had done a lot of good work in previous years.

60-0 is an absolutely horrific result. It really is. Disgraceful, even. I thought that those days were long behind Irish rugby. You're simply not doing a good job as a coach if your team loses 60-0. Like I said before, fairly or unfairly, you're ultimately responsible for the performance of every single one of your players on the pitch as a head coach ... it doesn't matter if you train them really well and they just don't have a good game, you're still responsible.

That's how it works. Every performance is a reflection on the coach: the good [vs Aus in RWC11 and vs Eng in 6N11] as well as the bad [vs Eng in 6N12, vs NZ in Hamilton]. You can be prouder of some of them than others, but you're responsible for them all – why else are you there?

I see no point whatsoever in retaining DK as head coach – while the IRFU might find it distasteful to oust the man who coached Ireland to a first GS in 60 years, they've got to make the call. He should either resign [preferably] or be sacked. Look at the downward trend of results in the Six Nations under his tenure: 2009 P5 W5; 2010 P5 W3; 2011 P5 W3; 2010 P5 W2. Any logical reading of that graph shows that Ireland have become less competitive under Kidney.

More to the point, can you imagine what it will be like as a player to return to an Irish set-up in November with your last result a 60-0 loss ... and the same coach still in charge? No other reasonable team in rugby would retain their coach after a performance and a result like that.

One answer would be to ask IRFU-contracted Mike Ruddock to step in as interim head coach for the 2012 November Internationals and the 2013 Six Nations [while JS is contracted to Leinster], look at the performances and results at the end of that period and either offer Ruddock or Schmidt the job up to and including RWC15. Brian McLaughlin would be another candidate [either to step in as U20s coach if Ruddock were asked to be interim coach, or interim coach himself]. Obviously an awful lot of variables there, but as far as I can tell, all three are contracted either directly or indirectly [i.e. through a province] to the IRFU already.

To continue with Kidney after this series of results [2011-12: P17 W6 D1 L10] would betray an acceptance of mediocrity.

[Hickiefan]

Mediocrity would be something to aspire to after a match like that. This felt worse than anything from RWC 2007. He got lucky with the 09 slam the same was EOS was unlucky in 07. Since then we've unquestionably gone backwards. He can't stay. He really can't. If he doesn't do the decent thing I hope the IRFU will force the issue. I'm far from confident though.

[ceemec]

I have to say I was impressed by Thornley's match report where he managed to get two excuses in the very first sentence:

"The 17th test of Ireland’s 51-week season proved a bridge too far, all the more so without their half dozen injured Lions."

To be honest, the tired excuse does hold some sway with me but it was DK who put those players out there. 10 of our starting side had started all the tests with very little rotation. The players had put in a serious shift a week ago and were very drained looking. They looked poorly motivated and jaded. These guys have spent 2 of the last 9 months in NZ along with a 6N and lengthy HEC campaign.

Why didn't Chris Henry get a run at some point? He was full of energy when he came on. Mike McCarthy never got a second who could have given some impetus. Darren Cave could have taken some pressure off BOD just for 25 minutes. Romano, Cane and Messam all came in today not having started a previous game and were looked on a different planet in terms of energy levels. You can't go to NZ or SA and try and play the same side each week. England recognised this and made 6 changes to their starting line up for this week. Why the hell did we think we didn't have to do the same? 1 change in the front 5 from the first test which was due to Ross returning.

[Oldschool]

Kidney's limitations have been exposed for a while now. I doubt he would have any sustained success as a coach outside Munster. The first year in charge of Ireland was a one off. We have not had any consistency since. Very, very limited coach and his "amateur psychologist" approach to management would not wash with top class players.

Having said all that Schmidt would be favourite to replace him and I'd rather have Kidney managing Ireland than Schmidt leaving Leinster to manage Ireland.

Anyway, the media are in Kidney's corner. Can you imagine the abuse Eddie O' Sullivan would have got after that rubbish? Thornley, O'Reilly, Fanning and their pals have a man crush on Kideny. They will have plenty of excuses for him unlike the vitriol they unleashed on EOS after the November 2005 internationals. Shame on them.

Maybe joe has a younger or older brother in the coaching business.

[Cianostays]

That was horrific today. Really awful. How did we get so close to them last week? Did they get the preperation horribly wrong this week? What the hell happened today

We haven't strung together a series of decent results since 2009. That simply isn't good enough. Time to walk away.

[ceemec]

DK won't walk away. He already said he's going to continue so like it or not, we're with him for another year because the IRFU certainly aren't going to give him the boot when they're concentrating on their accounts.