Ireland 2015

[Ulster's Best]

Don't like these destructive threads/comments about throwing out half the team as a knee-jerk reaction and playing a team for 2015 from the start of the 2012 Six Nations. We haven't the depth to do that, the Six Nations IS important to Irish rugby and anyway Gatland didn't do that. What he did was pick youngsters he believed to be good enough - not throw out older players when they were still the best bet at the time. And the likes of eg North, Warburton etc could NOT have been selected in Six Nations 2008. We should take it as it comes to some extent. Surely having BOD/POC etc around will help the younger guys grow into the men they need to be to do well in 2015. So let's be sensible.

Who knows what will happen over the next four years in terms of form dropping off or injury issues (eg Ferris shaky situation) or newcomers coming from nowhere at an early age like North etc.

But just to cheer us up, I don't think the canvas is looking too bare for 2015 from this distance even if the likes of BOD and POC (might the latter have a chance of still being our best bet in the second row I wonder) are one-offs.

In the backs we should still have Kearney, Bowe, Trimble, Earls, Sexton, Murray and McFadden from the 2011 squad. Add Jones, Fitzgerald and O'Leary (if he regains form) who might have travelled this time. Add Cave and Keatley who played in the Donnybrook XV. Add Spence who was ruled out of the build-up through summer surgery. Then a few talented youngsters like Conway, Gilroy, Luke Marshall. Not sure who might be the best bet as third scrumhalf - hopefully someone comes through. No BOD will leave an absolutely massive hole but the OVERALL picture looks encouraging.

As for the forwards, we should still have Healy, Best, Cronin, Ryan, Ferris (subject to fitness), O'Brien, Heaslip from the 2011 squad. Add Sherry who was brought out to New Zealand as cover for Best. Strauss will be eligible too, though don't think Diack will make much difference. Those likely to move up include, most obviously, Hagan, Tuohy, Dom Ryan and probably Ruddock. Also Paddy McAllister. Second tighthead hard to know - will Maguire be any good? Could Ross last til then? Maybe, just maybe POC still in the hunt for second row. Hopefully Munster's O'Mahony continues to develop in the back row. Maybe Butler too.

Kind of not bad on paper - and in the four years more may come through though some of the above may fall off or disappear for one reason or another.

Thoughts?

[Oldschool]

Perhaps, the asst. coach positions need to be reviewed, as well. Would people want Schmidt involved? Would Kidney want him involved?
Could Feek do the whole forwards coach thing, for example. Would Kidney want him.
I would also prefer to stay with foreign coaches. They bring a lot more to the table, in terms of experience and openess.

The type of team we pick should be based on the style of rugby we want to play.
We have to assume that Kidney will be the coach.
So, does the coach adapt or should the players? I think it has to be the coach. Ideally, you want a brand Ireland style of rugby.
Kidney, I think it's fair to say prefers a 10 man rugby style. That's being over simplistic TBO.
His half back selections reflect that.
However, by 2015, the likely OH's will be Sexton and Keatley. Neither is a Rog type OH. O'Connor, Jackson and Madigan are other possibilities.
None of the above can play the way Kidney prefers the game to be played, so something has to give.
His choice of OH's will define the team and he has find a new Captain and a new pack leader. (Not all at once BTW)
I wouldn't give it to POC, purely because there is a reasonable chance he won't be there.
Best, right now is the prime candidate, but Kidney has at least a year, I would think, to ponder his decision.
Could Donncha Ryan be a possibility?
And then there is the really big problem to deal with, the Irish psyche. At some point in time on the way to winning a WC, or 6Ns, you are going to have situations where you are the favourite and not the underdog. Ireland doesn't seem to be able to cope with even the slightest whiff of being favourites.
This has to be confronted. It is the reason we are perennial under achievers. We owe it to our players as much as anyone. As an example, the Welsh positively blossom if they are favourites. They like being favourites. They just love to be flattered and they flatter themselves - they believe. The Irish on the other "Never speak well of themselves". This attitude for example annoys Brent Pope (somebody with an outside view) to hell. He hates us talking ourselves down - He's right. Is this Kidney's biggest challenge?

[Ulster's Best]

Perhaps, the asst. coach positions need to be reviewed. Would people want Schmidt involved? Would Kidney want him involved?
Could Feek do the whole forwards coach thing, for example. Would Kidney want him.
I would also prefer to stay with foreign coaches. They bring a lot more to the table, in terms of experience and openess.

The type of team we pick should be based on the style of rugby we play.
We have to assume that Kidney will be the coach.
So, does the coach adapt or should the players? I think it has to be the coach. Ideally, you want a brand Ireland style of rugby.
Kidney, I think it's fair to say prefers a 10 man rugby style. That's being over simplistic TBO.
His half back selections reflect that.
However, by 2015, the likely OH's will be Sexton and Keatley. Neither is a Rog type OH. O'Connor, Jackson and Madigan are other possibilities.
None of the above can play the way Kidney prefers the game to be played, so something has to give.
His choice of OH's will define the team and he has find a new Captain and a new pack leader. (Not all at once BTW)
I wouldn't give it to POC, purely because there is a reasonable chance he won't be there.
Best, right now is the prime candidate, but Kidney has at least a year, I would think, to ponder his decision.
Could Donncha Ryan be a possibility?
And then there is the Irish psyche to deal with. At some point in time on the way to winning a WC, or 6Ns, you are going to have situations where you are the favourite and not the underdog. Ireland doesn't seem to be able to cope with even the slightest whiff of being favourites.
This has to be confronted. It is the reason we are perennial under achievers. We owe it to our players as much as anyone. As an example, the Welsh positively blossom if they are favourites. They like being favourites. They just love to be flattered and they flatter themselves - they believe. The Irish on the other "Never speak well of themselves". (This attitude for example annoys Brent Pope to hell)

Great point re the Welsh. I think it is partly because rugby is their sport and they believe they should be world-class at it. Though on the counter when we as a nation start to get full of the thoughts (like pre France 2007 or pre yesterday) it just doesn't work.

Good point too re the outhalves. But at this stage it looks like Sexton and Keatley will be well out in front of the rest so that's a reality Kidney (if still there) will simply have to deal with. You have to cut your cloth. Haven't formed a definite opinion on Jackson yet and he is still very young.

[berniemac67]

Great point re the Welsh. I think it is partly because rugby is their sport and they believe they should be world-class at it. Though on the counter when we as a nation start to get full of the thoughts (like pre France 2007 or pre yesterday) it just doesn't work.

Good point too re the outhalves. But at this stage it looks like Sexton and Keatley will be well out in front of the rest so that's a reality Kidney (if still there) will simply have to deal with. You have to cut your cloth. Haven't formed a definite opinion on Jackson yet and he is still very young.

Disagree strongly about the Welsh. For one off games they are marginally better than us at carrying favourite status, but when it is sustained and people expect results they often crumble just like us. Remember 2006 and 2009, their post GS years.

I fear that yesterday beating their neighbour may have been their final and the SF their ultimate objective. I think they are better equipped than France to beat Aus or NZ, but I suspect they will either be satisfied with their lot or they will freeze next weekend. I hope I'm wrong because I desparately want somebody to shut up the SH bleating, and I doubt the French are capable fo the 3 consecutive performances they'll need to do it.

[Ulster's Best]

Great point re the Welsh. I think it is partly because rugby is their sport and they believe they should be world-class at it. Though on the counter when we as a nation start to get full of the thoughts (like pre France 2007 or pre yesterday) it just doesn't work.

Good point too re the outhalves. But at this stage it looks like Sexton and Keatley will be well out in front of the rest so that's a reality Kidney (if still there) will simply have to deal with. You have to cut your cloth. Haven't formed a definite opinion on Jackson yet and he is still very young.

Disagree strongly about the Welsh. For one off games they are marginally better than us at carrying favourite status, but when it is sustained and people expect results they often crumble just like us. Remember 2006 and 2009, their post GS years.

I fear that yesterday beating their neighbour may have been their final and the SF their ultimate objective. I think they are better equipped than France to beat Aus or NZ, but I suspect they will either be satisfied with their lot or they will freeze next weekend. I hope I'm wrong because I desparately want somebody to shut up the SH bleating, and I doubt the French are capable fo the 3 consecutive performances they'll need to do it.

I don't think that Wales are all that great and much as I'd like to see it I'd imagine yesterday was their equivalent of our game against Australia. I don't think either there's much between the teams and that, based on one day albeit one all-important day, we can say that Welsh rugby has got everything right and Ireland everything wrong. HOWEVER, in the past six years, Wales have had two Grand Slams to our one and one WC semi-final appearance to our none in spite of the provinces doing better in Europe than their teams and us believing ourselves (with justication based on overall 6N results in the last decade) to have a stronger side.

[berniemac67]

Perhaps, the asst. coach positions need to be reviewed, as well. Would people want Schmidt involved? Would Kidney want him involved?
Could Feek do the whole forwards coach thing, for example. Would Kidney want him.
I would also prefer to stay with foreign coaches. They bring a lot more to the table, in terms of experience and openess.

The type of team we pick should be based on the style of rugby we want to play.
We have to assume that Kidney will be the coach.
So, does the coach adapt or should the players? I think it has to be the coach. Ideally, you want a brand Ireland style of rugby.
Kidney, I think it's fair to say prefers a 10 man rugby style. That's being over simplistic TBO.
His half back selections reflect that.
However, by 2015, the likely OH's will be Sexton and Keatley. Neither is a Rog type OH. O'Connor, Jackson and Madigan are other possibilities.
None of the above can play the way Kidney prefers the game to be played, so something has to give.
His choice of OH's will define the team and he has find a new Captain and a new pack leader. (Not all at once BTW)
I wouldn't give it to POC, purely because there is a reasonable chance he won't be there.
Best, right now is the prime candidate, but Kidney has at least a year, I would think, to ponder his decision.
Could Donncha Ryan be a possibility?
And then there is the really big problem to deal with, the Irish psyche. At some point in time on the way to winning a WC, or 6Ns, you are going to have situations where you are the favourite and not the underdog. Ireland doesn't seem to be able to cope with even the slightest whiff of being favourites.
This has to be confronted. It is the reason we are perennial under achievers. We owe it to our players as much as anyone. As an example, the Welsh positively blossom if they are favourites. They like being favourites. They just love to be flattered and they flatter themselves - they believe. The Irish on the other "Never speak well of themselves". This attitude for example annoys Brent Pope (somebody with an outside view) to hell. He hates us talking ourselves down - He's right. Is this Kidney's biggest challenge?

I couldn't agree more on foreign coaches. We need coaches who can see beyond provinces and politics and who give the clear impression of doing so (DK doesn't do this).

[berniemac67]

Great point re the Welsh. I think it is partly because rugby is their sport and they believe they should be world-class at it. Though on the counter when we as a nation start to get full of the thoughts (like pre France 2007 or pre yesterday) it just doesn't work.

Good point too re the outhalves. But at this stage it looks like Sexton and Keatley will be well out in front of the rest so that's a reality Kidney (if still there) will simply have to deal with. You have to cut your cloth. Haven't formed a definite opinion on Jackson yet and he is still very young.

Disagree strongly about the Welsh. For one off games they are marginally better than us at carrying favourite status, but when it is sustained and people expect results they often crumble just like us. Remember 2006 and 2009, their post GS years.

I fear that yesterday beating their neighbour may have been their final and the SF their ultimate objective. I think they are better equipped than France to beat Aus or NZ, but I suspect they will either be satisfied with their lot or they will freeze next weekend. I hope I'm wrong because I desparately want somebody to shut up the SH bleating, and I doubt the French are capable fo the 3 consecutive performances they'll need to do it.

I don't think that Wales are all that great and much as I'd like to see it I'd imagine yesterday was their equivalent of our game against Australia. I don't think either there's much between the teams and that, based on one day albeit one all-important day, we can say that Welsh rugby has got everything right and Ireland everything wrong. HOWEVER, in the past six years, Wales have had two Grand Slams to our one and one WC semi-final appearance to our none in spite of the provinces doing better in Europe than their teams and us believing ourselves (with justication based on overall 6N results in the last decade) to have a stronger side.

The 2005 GS is a complete anomoly though. They never would have won that if even one of the other 6N thought they were a serious threat. It was a classic sucker punch, and this was clearly emphasised by their 2006 campaign as GS winners.

If viewed purely in terms of GSs then yes Wales have a better recent record, but if we broaden the view a little and include TCs in the analysis then the Irish position looks far superior and is a truer reflection of the relative states of the countries.

[Ulster's Best]

Maybe - but on the other hand that makes the point even more strongly re Wales having (reflectively or otherwise) managed to deliver when it matters most.

[berniemac67]

Maybe - but on the other hand that makes the point even more strongly re Wales having (reflectively or otherwise) managed to deliver when it matters most.

Not sure I follow your logic there. I'm struggling to remember Wales delivering as favourites on the big occassion.

Although their post-GS years illustrate my point quite well I'm not sure they are really relevant as consecutive GSs are so rare as to be considered almost impossible.

Wales deliver frequently, but they are almost always underdogs.

I will take this all back and agree with you if they get to the final in RWC 2011, otherwise they will have failed to deliver as favourites.

[Oldschool]

Maybe - but on the other hand that makes the point even more strongly re Wales having (reflectively or otherwise) managed to deliver when it matters most.

Not sure I follow your logic there. I'm struggling to remember Wales delivering as favourites on the big occassion.

Although their post-GS years illustrate my point quite well I'm not sure they are really relevant as consecutive GSs are so rare as to be considered almost impossible.

Wales deliver frequently, but they are almost always underdogs.

I will take this all back and agree with you if they get to the final in RWC 2011, otherwise they will have failed to deliver as favourites.

I think maybe you've broadened it a bit too much. In the the sense that over the last ten years Wales have been pretty ordinary, but in the two seasons that they got a sniff (Like Ireland beating Australia) of something, they raised their game and won thru. If they were to win the WC this season and finish mid table next season, they be on trend and nobody would be surprised. Playing France will hold no fears for them.
I think, if they get to the final of a WC, they'll have done very well. They don't think like that. They won't be happy unless they win the WC, they'll actually be deeply depressed, because deep down they "believe".
Is that the difference between us and them. We'd have been happy to get to the SF, never mind a F. A SF was even our official goal as set down by the IRFU.
Deep down we didn't believe!

[Ulster's Best]

Maybe - but on the other hand that makes the point even more strongly re Wales having (reflectively or otherwise) managed to deliver when it matters most.

Not sure I follow your logic there. I'm struggling to remember Wales delivering as favourites on the big occassion.

Although their post-GS years illustrate my point quite well I'm not sure they are really relevant as consecutive GSs are so rare as to be considered almost impossible.

Wales deliver frequently, but they are almost always underdogs.

I will take this all back and agree with you if they get to the final in RWC 2011, otherwise they will have failed to deliver as favourites.

I think maybe you've broadened a bit too much. In the the sense that over the last ten years Wales have been pretty ordinary, but in the two seasons that they got a sniff of something, they raised their game and won thru.
I think, if they get to the final of a WC, they'll have done very well. They won't. They won't be happy unless they win, they'll actually be deeply depressed, because deep down they "believe".
Is that the difference between us and them. We'd have been happy to get to the SF, never mind a F. A SF was even our official goal as set down by the IRFU.
Deep down we didn't believe!

Yes, Old School, that was my point - ie 2 Slams and 1 WC semi to 1 Slam and 0 WC semi in spite of us being better over the decade or so at international and 'club' level. And I largely agree with your main theory as I said above ie the this is our place factor (for both countries).

[TerenureJim]

RIght so the planning for England 2015 beings now. Given the age of some frontliners their time in the spotlight is coming to an end/has ended and new blood needs to be developed at six nations time and during the June/November international windows. We have four professional teams who are sucking diesel and getting decent results while missing a lot of frontline players and the provincial set up will help to keep us on the front foot in terms of developing players. So who do people think will come in and who do people think will bow out in the short term?

IMO RO'G is probably gone internatonally, fact is he can't be backed to start anymore because he won't be in England in 2015 so we need to support Sexton's development and if RO'G doesn't want to warm a bench then fine, I'm sure there are players who'd love to have the opportunity. Keatley, Madigan etc. to name but two.

D'Arce and Drico still have a lot to offer but we need to seriously test some other centre combinations out as both even though younger than RO'G most likely won't be here beyond 2013.

PO'C could make 2015, if he keeps fit he could have a SIomon Shaw like career and hopefully that'll be the case but it looks like DO'C and Leo are on the way out so who steps up? Ryan? He has looked hungry and could become a real enforcer.

Backrow, well there isn't really a problem, sure a fetcher 7 is missing but HEaslip on his day can fufil that role and with Ferris, SO'B, Dominic Ryan, Ruddock, Henry etc. etc. the backrow production line seems pretty well set.

Right I'm not going to go into all team sections but lets get the discussion going.....

[Ulster's Best]

RIght so the planning for England 2015 beings now. Given the age of some frontliners their time in the spotlight is coming to an end/has ended and new blood needs to be developed at six nations time and during the June/November international windows. We have four professional teams who are sucking diesel and getting decent results while missing a lot of frontline players and the provincial set up will help to keep us on the front foot in terms of developing players. So who do people think will come in and who do people think will bow out in the short term?

IMO RO'G is probably gone internatonally, fact is he can't be backed to start anymore because he won't be in England in 2015 so we need to support Sexton's development and if RO'G doesn't want to warm a bench then fine, I'm sure there are players who'd love to have the opportunity. Keatley, Madigan etc. to name but two.

D'Arce and Drico still have a lot to offer but we need to seriously test some other centre combinations out as both even though younger than RO'G most likely won't be here beyond 2013.

PO'C could make 2015, if he keeps fit he could have a SIomon Shaw like career and hopefully that'll be the case but it looks like DO'C and Leo are on the way out so who steps up? Ryan? He has looked hungry and could become a real enforcer.

Backrow, well there isn't really a problem, sure a fetcher 7 is missing but HEaslip on his day can fufil that role and with Ferris, SO'B, Dominic Ryan, Ruddock, Henry etc. etc. the backrow production line seems pretty well set.

Right I'm not going to go into all team sections but lets get the discussion going.....

You don't like my thread? Fair enough.

Henry is not international class.

[TerenureJim]

RIght so the planning for England 2015 beings now. Given the age of some frontliners their time in the spotlight is coming to an end/has ended and new blood needs to be developed at six nations time and during the June/November international windows. We have four professional teams who are sucking diesel and getting decent results while missing a lot of frontline players and the provincial set up will help to keep us on the front foot in terms of developing players. So who do people think will come in and who do people think will bow out in the short term?

IMO RO'G is probably gone internatonally, fact is he can't be backed to start anymore because he won't be in England in 2015 so we need to support Sexton's development and if RO'G doesn't want to warm a bench then fine, I'm sure there are players who'd love to have the opportunity. Keatley, Madigan etc. to name but two.

D'Arce and Drico still have a lot to offer but we need to seriously test some other centre combinations out as both even though younger than RO'G most likely won't be here beyond 2013.

PO'C could make 2015, if he keeps fit he could have a SIomon Shaw like career and hopefully that'll be the case but it looks like DO'C and Leo are on the way out so who steps up? Ryan? He has looked hungry and could become a real enforcer.

Backrow, well there isn't really a problem, sure a fetcher 7 is missing but HEaslip on his day can fufil that role and with Ferris, SO'B, Dominic Ryan, Ruddock, Henry etc. etc. the backrow production line seems pretty well set.

Right I'm not going to go into all team sections but lets get the discussion going.....

You don't like my thread? Fair enough.

Henry is not international class.

Apologies didn't see that one there, took yesterday off posting due to onset of the post RWC depression. Guess my eyes are still a bit watery from all the crying.

Also good topic and all but the thread seems to have gotten very much into an Ireland V Wales discussion. I'd like to see discussion re the players. Who's going to retire/be shown the door selection wise, and who's going to step in/up from the provincial level or perhaps schools/AIL bolters etc.

The player depth argurment is nonsense, if you look at the registered numbers we're actually right up there, clearly we can't compete numbers with England and France but the rest of the big teams have similar and in some cases smaller playing pools.

So come on who do people think will start coming into the team?

[Ulster's Best]

RIght so the planning for England 2015 beings now. Given the age of some frontliners their time in the spotlight is coming to an end/has ended and new blood needs to be developed at six nations time and during the June/November international windows. We have four professional teams who are sucking diesel and getting decent results while missing a lot of frontline players and the provincial set up will help to keep us on the front foot in terms of developing players. So who do people think will come in and who do people think will bow out in the short term?

IMO RO'G is probably gone internatonally, fact is he can't be backed to start anymore because he won't be in England in 2015 so we need to support Sexton's development and if RO'G doesn't want to warm a bench then fine, I'm sure there are players who'd love to have the opportunity. Keatley, Madigan etc. to name but two.

D'Arce and Drico still have a lot to offer but we need to seriously test some other centre combinations out as both even though younger than RO'G most likely won't be here beyond 2013.

PO'C could make 2015, if he keeps fit he could have a SIomon Shaw like career and hopefully that'll be the case but it looks like DO'C and Leo are on the way out so who steps up? Ryan? He has looked hungry and could become a real enforcer.

Backrow, well there isn't really a problem, sure a fetcher 7 is missing but HEaslip on his day can fufil that role and with Ferris, SO'B, Dominic Ryan, Ruddock, Henry etc. etc. the backrow production line seems pretty well set.

Right I'm not going to go into all team sections but lets get the discussion going.....

You don't like my thread? Fair enough.

Henry is not international class.

Apologies didn't see that one there, took yesterday off posting due to onset of the post RWC depression. Guess my eyes are still a bit watery from all the crying.

Aye, me too mate - didn't post until this morning either. Wasn't sure if you hadn't seen it or just didn't like the title 'Ireland 2015', though in fact while speculating about who might be around for a squad then I also made the point that I don't think we should just go mad now and throw out good players because of their age.

So no ditching eg BOD etc as some slightly mad people are saying but what I would be doing, certainly, is favouring the likes of Tuohy over Cullen, Jones over Murphy, Hagan over Buckley etc where the older player wouldn't be first choice and/or not much better than the potential replacement even now.

[Twist]

Yeah I totally agree with the idea if intentionally bringing in younger guys, but blooding them alongside established stars. E.g. McF beside BOD, Tuohy beside POC. I wouldn't rush into calling time on anyone's career. Felix Jones could learn a lot from Geordan Murphy, imo, but we do need to give these young lads game time

[Ulster's Best]

Yeah I totally agree with the idea if intentionally bringing in younger guys, but blooding them alongside established stars. E.g. McF beside BOD, Tuohy beside POC. I wouldn't rush into calling time on anyone's career. Felix Jones could learn a lot from Geordan Murphy, imo, but we do need to give these young lads game time

What about McFadden - anyone any idea why Deccie simply didn't see him as a centre option at all when during last Six Nations there was a case for picking him at 12 ahead of D'Arcy and Wallace? And might he even end up missing out on a post-BOD/GDA Ireland squad with say Luke Marshall, Nevin Spence, Luke Fitgerald and Darren Cave as the men in the 2015 squd (ok a long way off) ie if Luke Fitz gets back to his best and the wing spots are congested, if the other Luke develops as a genuine 12/10 type player (Wallace only more physical), Spence progresses and Cave is the closest to BOD as a defensive organiser and smart player in that regard. There's also option of Bowe or Earls moving in, and Barnes at Munster looks useful too as well as O'Malley and the Connacht guy. I think McFadden is too versatile, too good and too useful (with place-kicking option) to be out of the frame but it will be interesting.

[AdamK]

For me I think Ferg will be a 13 more than a 12. I used to rate him at 12 more than a 13, but in reality his pace and ability to finish will make him a great 13. The worry is if BOD is around for another two seasons he'll be 27 before he starts getting decent game time.

I'd love to see Fitzy at 12 and Ferg at 13 for a few games and see how it pans out. Fitzy's off-loading can be quite slick at times and in the Connacht match he was constantly looking to do that.

Unfortunately I think the IRFU will seem to consider Ferg as a 'utility' back and no more. I think he needs some big international games at 13 imo.

[Oldschool]

The replacement process needs to be carefully managed. The older a player is the sooner he gets replaced.
The aim should be to have the changeover more or less complete and certainly well on the way in roughly two years.
This means the younger players have to be eased into the squad over the 2 year period.
We're talking about 12 new faces roughly. Some of the replacement already a work in progress.
Luke, Touhy, McGlaughlin, McCarthy perhaps.
Some positions need urgent action already. The hooker and Prop position for example.
Prop:
We have three functioning props right now, Healy, Ross and Court (And that's being optimistic).
We need another four/five for the WC and we need 2/3as a matter of urgency.
They are in the pipeline, but we need to start exposing them to international competition.
Hooker:
We have Best and Cronin, who is untested. We have Strauss and Sherry in the pipeline.
Second Row:
We have Touhy, McCarthy in the pipeline, with Nagle and Toner as other possibilities.
Back row:
Is probably OK, but we do need a couple of genuine 7s - The WC has proved this and we must adapt. Do we even have a pipeline?
Peter O'Mahoney has impressed for Munster. Dominic Ryan and Ruddock are other possibilities. What's the story with Faloon?
Scrum half:
Looks like a problem area in 4 years time. Murray is being touted as the heir apparent, but he needs competition for the position.
Out half:
Looks OK - Keatley and Madigan are already showing form. Keatley first and then Madigan need international exposure sooner rather than later, because this such a key position.
Centres:
D'Arcy's replacenment first and use Bod to bed him in. Trimble, McFadden and Spense need to be brought in asap.
Bod might be good for another two years and towards the end of that time he should get 50 minutes only as his replacement is introduced.
Bowe, McFadden and Cave are the main contenders.
Wingers:
Earls and Luke are fine, but Gilroy is looking like the real deal already and Hurley looks pretty capable too. Conway is another.
FB:
Kearney and who else - Actually the Connacht FB looks pretty useful.

Marginal Calls:- POC and Ross are two players that fall into this category. Great to have them, if they're OK in four years time, but there is a but.


It should be assumed, quite frankly that anybody posting on this topic is not calling for a slash and burn approach, without having to specifically say so.
It's more about where we should be in 4 years time, than the nitty gritty of how we get there.
A measured but identifiable timeline is required.
We must use our bench, with a strong bias towards giving the next generation their chance.

We also need to look at our coaching team. I think having foreign coaches in the setup is the right way to go.
Do we want to make more use of Greg Feek. Is/Should there be a role for Schmidt.

We need to think about the captaincy and when the changeover should take place.

And we need to look at the reason why we are not doing better in all international competitions.
Over the last 10 years we are the perennial under achievers. Why is this?

My heart wants to give the WC squad, in it's entirety one more shot at a GS. My head says, it's time to start to move on.
Thankfully Declan Kidney has to make that decision.

[Ulster's Best]

The replacement process needs to be carefully managed. The older a player is the sooner he gets replaced.
The aim should be to have the changeover more or less complete and certainly well on the way in roughly two years.
This means the younger players have to be eased into the squad over the 2 year period.
We're talking about 12 new faces roughly. Some of the replacement already a work in progress.
Luke, Touhy, McGlaughlin, McCarthy perhaps.
Some positions need urgent action already. The hooker and Prop position for example.
Prop:
We have three functioning props right now, Healy, Ross and Court (And that's being optimistic).
We need another four/five for the WC and we need 2/3as a matter of urgency.
They are in the pipeline, but we need to start exposing them to international competition.
Hooker:
We have Best and Cronin, who is untested. We have Strauss and Sherry in the pipeline.
Second Row:
We have Touhy, McCarthy in the pipeline, with Nagle and Toner as other possibilities.
Back row:
Is probably OK, but we do need a couple of genuine 7s - The WC has proved this and we must adapt. Do we even have a pipeline?
Peter O'Mahoney has impressed for Munster. Dominic Ryan and Ruddock are other possibilities. What's the story with Faloon?
Scrum half:
Looks like a problem area in 4 years time. Murray is being touted as the heir apparent, but he needs competition for the position.
Out half:
Looks OK - Keatley and Madigan are already showing form. Keatley first and then Madigan need international exposure sooner rather than later, because this such a key position.
Centres:
D'Arcy's replacenment first and use Bod to bed him in. Trimble, McFadden and Spense need to be brought in asap.
Bod might be good for another two years and towards the end of that time he should get 50 minutes only as his replacement is introduced.
Bowe, McFadden and Cave are the main contenders.
Wingers:
Earls and Luke are fine, but Gilroy is looking like the real deal already and Hurley looks pretty capable too. Conway is another.
FB:
Kearney and who else - Actually the Connacht FB looks pretty useful.

Marginal Calls:- POC and Ross are two players that fall into this category. Great to have them, if they're OK in four years time, but there is a but.


It should be assumed, quite frankly that anybody posting on this topic is not calling for a slash and burn approach, without having to specifically say so.
It's more about where we should be in 4 years time, than the nitty gritty of how we get there.
A measured but identifiable timeline is required.
We must use our bench, with a strong bias towards giving the next generation their chance.

We also need to look at our coaching team. I think having foreign coaches in the setup is the right way to go.
Do we want to make more use of Greg Feek. Is/Should there be a role for Schmidt.

We need to think about the captaincy and when the changeover should take place.

And we need to look at the reason why we are not doing better in all international competitions.
Over the last 10 years we are the perennial under achievers. Why is this?

My heart wants to give the WC squad, in it's entirety one more shot at a GS. My head says, it's time to start to move on.
Thankfully Declan Kidney has to make that decision.

We can do both - ie start moving on/building for future while going seriously for Six Nations title/Slam - initially concentrate on ditching the guys who were in the 30 but not in the 22 this weekend (as all getting on except McFadden - and if we cheat by counting Flannery from original squad instead of Varley) and supplement them with the best of the younger fringe players. Maybe look at easing out one or two eg DOC and Darce as and when it's a 50-50 call. BOD will largely choose his time. POC and Ross and Reddan might last til 2015.