Ireland V England

[Comer Toes]

Looks like Healy has an injury to his eye socket according to the BBC. States he will fly out four days after the rest of the squad.

Worrying, very worrying.

Ah Jaysus, It just gets better and better! Why the f**k did Kidney wait so long to take him off (for the second week running!)?

The incident happened fairly early, that muppet Croft trying to be the hard-man... himself and that fat pr!*k Thompson having a good laugh about it iirc.
Not to worry, we've loads of quality loose-heads... good grief, genuinely feel we'll be fortunate to get out of the group at this stage.

[Leinster Lout]

I really hope Kidney doesn't put SOB at 7, but he surely will now..

What would you propose? Leaving out Ferris and putting Jenno to openside?? Great on the ground, good link man, plenty dog but simply a grade below what we will be facing against France, Aus, SA, NZ in terms of pace and power across the backrow. It has to be Ferris, SOB, Heaslip. I would actually be calling up Dom Ryan ahead of Jennings but that ain't gonna happen.

SOB's ball carrying, our most potent weapon, seems to be completely negated when he plays openside. I'd prefer to see Ferris or even Heaslip there. More realistically Ferris as he has played there before. It shouldn't matter too much, but if we want to utilise SOB's strengths, it seems that he has to be at 6 or 8. At the end of the day though I agree that the 3 of them must start of course.

[Isaac4leinster]

Glad you find it so amusing Dan. "most of what happens on a rugby pitch leaves you open to a custodial sentence if it happened on the street".....what on earth are YOU talking about?
How long was his ban for? 5 weeks.....what a joke.
What about his "tackling" today..................?

There's nothing wrong with his Tuilagi's tackling, I suggest you find a different sport if you don't like way he plays.

Most rugby fans would excited the prospect of watching Tuilagi, not complaining about him being rough.

If someone attempted to tackle person, even in a Ronan O'Gara style manner, in the street, it would be assault.

[Danthefan]

Glad you find it so amusing Dan. "most of what happens on a rugby pitch leaves you open to a custodial sentence if it happened on the street".....what on earth are YOU talking about?
How long was his ban for? 5 weeks.....what a joke.
What about his "tackling" today..................?

Try this on the next person who annoys you, perfectly acceptable on the street I assume?



If you asked Ashton whether he wanted the police to investigate Tuilagi he would laugh in your face.

And what was the issue with Tuilagi today exactly?

[nelly the elephant]

Glad you find it so amusing Dan. "most of what happens on a rugby pitch leaves you open to a custodial sentence if it happened on the street".....what on earth are YOU talking about?
How long was his ban for? 5 weeks.....what a joke.
What about his "tackling" today..................?

There's nothing wrong with his Tuilagi's tackling, I suggest you find a different sport if you don't like way he plays.

Most rugby fans would excited the prospect of watching Tuilagi, not complaining about him being rough.

If someone attempted to tackle person, even in a Ronan O'Gara style manner, in the street, it would be assault.

English please?

[nelly the elephant]

Glad you find it so amusing Dan. "most of what happens on a rugby pitch leaves you open to a custodial sentence if it happened on the street".....what on earth are YOU talking about?
How long was his ban for? 5 weeks.....what a joke.
What about his "tackling" today..................?

Try this on the next person who annoys you, perfectly acceptable on the street I assume?



If you asked Ashton whether he wanted the police to investigate Tuilagi he would laugh in your face.

And what was the issue with Tuilagi today exactly?

I'm not wasting any more time with you or Isaac on this Dan. you have your view, i have mine. They're completely divergent views so we'll never agree.

[Logorrhea]

Thought Tuilagis tackle, and another one later, was an armless shoulder charge. Didnt wrap the arms at all.

[CiaranIrl]

Thought Tuilagis tackle, and another one later, was an armless shoulder charge. Didnt wrap the arms at all.

Yeah - this. I couldn't give a toss about the punch, but his tackle on Wallace was dodgy. He did something similar to D'arcy in our quarter final, but it didn't end as badly, thankfully. He is a talented player, but he needs to make more of an effort not to injure players. Nothing wrong with being a hard b$&%@#d, but you don't want to see players getting hurt from bad technique.

[Broken Wing]

He hit Wally to drive him over the line. From replays he was bringing his arm up to wrap but Wally's knee took the brunt if it. Don't think there was anything illegal in it and it would barely be mentioned but for Wally's misfortune.

Fair play to D'Arcy for shoving the camera away. Complete cop out not to show a replay on the big screen and quash the allegations immediately.

[Durkah Durkah]

Oh dear... there are a couple of reasons why Leinster, Munster can take on and better the best packs in Europe and why Ireland fail; the first and foremost reason is that the French and English international teams are made up of the best players from several teams (and countries in England's case!) rather than the best of 3 teams in our case. This key point is being missed repeatedly and not acknowledging this point leads to the unrealistic expectations that many people hold for the international side. Secondly, Munster and Leinster have world class imports that make a huge difference.

I think this is a very interesting and valid point. Why should we expect a lot from the national side. The concentration of international players in our provinces is much higher than in other countries. Just looking briefly at last years ERC FINAL all of the Leinster players had been capped except McLaughlin, there were only 7 players capped in the Northampton side.
I think the provinces success have put an unfair expectation on the national side and I believe the reality is that we're just not that good. 09 was an anomaly as opposed to the norm

[TrapperChamonix]

Oh dear... there are a couple of reasons why Leinster, Munsteor can take on and better the best packs in Europe and why Ireland fail; the first and foremost reason is that the French and English internatinal teams are made up of the best players from several teams (and countries in England's case!) rather than the best of 3 teams in our case. This key point is being missed repeatedly and not acknowledging this point leads to the unrealistic expectations that many people hold for the international side. Secondly, Munster and Leinster have world class imports that make a huge difference.

I think this is a very interesting and valid point. Why should we expect a lot from the national side. The concentration of international players in our provinces is much higher than in other countries. Just looking briefly at last years ERC FINAL all of the Leinster players had been capped except McLaughlin, there were only 7 players capped in the Northampton side.
I think the provinces success have put an unfair expectation on the national side and I believe the reality is that we're just not that good. 09 was an anomaly as opposed to the norm

3. things to consider before adjucating on how "valid" these points are.
1. McLaughlin has been capped
2. Its convenient to use Northamptoin as a comparioson. Try making the same comparison against Toulouse, Clermont or indeed Leicester. Without looking it up I'm sure could field at least two 23 man squad of international players.
3.What is conveniently ignored is that if you play for any of the Irish provinces you've a pretty decent chance of getting capped. While I have the utmost respect for anyone who gets an international cap whether its for Portugal or for New Zealand, there are almost certanily players on our provincial teams that were they English or French they would not have got an international cap.

Lets not kid ourselves that Haskell, Deacon, Shaw, Flood, Easter, Fourie, Tindell, Wiggleswort, Thopmpson, are best players from any team and certainly not the "best players from several .....countries" as CT contends. As a benchmark, ask yourself how many of these players either Munster or Leinster would want to sign.
It interesting that you view provincial success as a negative (1st time I've heard that). I for one have no unrealistical expectations, 18 months of woefull performances have made sure of that.

[Logorrhea]

From replays he was bringing his arm up to wrap but Wally's knee took the brunt if it. Don't think there was anything illegal in it and it would barely be mentioned but for Wally's misfortune.

Agree that he was bringing his arms up to wrap, the point is, he never made it. Dont see much difference between it and a blatant shoulder charge.

Whats done is done, and Ive seen a lot nastier tackles going in all over the place, but Wallaces international career is probably over now as a result of "bad technique".

[Danthefan]

Glad you find it so amusing Dan. "most of what happens on a rugby pitch leaves you open to a custodial sentence if it happened on the street".....what on earth are YOU talking about?
How long was his ban for? 5 weeks.....what a joke.
What about his "tackling" today..................?

Try this on the next person who annoys you, perfectly acceptable on the street I assume?



If you asked Ashton whether he wanted the police to investigate Tuilagi he would laugh in your face.

And what was the issue with Tuilagi today exactly?

I'm not wasting any more time with you or Isaac on this Dan. you have your view, i have mine. They're completely divergent views so we'll never agree.

Hardly surprising, you have no argument.

[Donny B.]

Oh dear... there are a couple of reasons why Leinster, Munster can take on and better the best packs in Europe and why Ireland fail; the first and foremost reason is that the French and English international teams are made up of the best players from several teams (and countries in England's case!) rather than the best of 3 teams in our case. This key point is being missed repeatedly and not acknowledging this point leads to the unrealistic expectations that many people hold for the international side.

Yeah but we've taken on these England teams with all their "best players from several teams" and beaten them seven out of the last eight times in the Six Nations Championship. If anything having our best players concentrated in a smaller number of teams is an advantage because our players are more used to playing with each other. Our system is actually envied by many rugby people in England, so let's not starting using it as an excuse when things start going wrong.

[FourMasters]

Watching the highlights now. Frankie Sheahan as Ireland's backs make one of their few incisive moves into the England 22: "Earls coming up on the outside like a steamboat".

[mikey]

Watching the highlights now. Frankie Sheahan as Ireland's backs make one of their few incisive moves into the England 22: "Earls coming up on the outside like a steamboat".

Quality commentary - I'm sure he meant to say slowboat!! Or steamroller....

[Isaac4leinster]

Watching the highlights now. Frankie Sheahan as Ireland's backs make one of their few incisive moves into the England 22: "Earls coming up on the outside like a steamboat".

Like a steamboat he is full of hot air, not very fast and also completely obsolete, so you can see his point.

[SaS]

From replays he was bringing his arm up to wrap but Wally's knee took the brunt if it. Don't think there was anything illegal in it and it would barely be mentioned but for Wally's misfortune.

Agree that he was bringing his arms up to wrap, the point is, he never made it. Dont see much difference between it and a blatant shoulder charge.

Whats done is done, and Ive seen a lot nastier tackles going in all over the place, but Wallaces international career is probably over now as a result of "bad technique".

It was a result of Wallace planting his foot which put all the pressure on his knee. Whether Tuilagi used his arms or not would not have made any difference...

[TerenureJim]

It was a result of Wallace planting his foot which put all the pressure on his knee. Whether Tuilagi used his arms or not would not have made any difference...

... well to me the difference is that it would have been a legal tackle, from where I was sitting it didn't look like he made much of an effort to wrap his hands around, granted what happened to Wallace made the "tackle" look worse but at the end of the day a legend of the game looks like having his career ended by a pup who hits dirty. Tuilagi won't win many mates in the game on this side of the water for what he's done and given the dark arts that happen on a rugby pitch I'm guessing he'll get a harsh lesson at some stage at the bottom of a ruck or in a "big hit" in the next season or so when he comes up against an Irish team.

No more than he deserves. Lawes and Armitage are another two fairly dirty players plying their trade in the English set up. I'm not saying these guys should be saints but the level of dirty hits being laid out by the English under Johnson is not the type of game/sportsmanship I want to see on a rugby pitch. Off to get my slippers and pipe now.

[Broken Wing]

Tuilagi won't win many mates in the game on this side of the water for what he's done and given the dark arts that happen on a rugby pitch I'm guessing he'll get a harsh lesson at some stage at the bottom of a ruck or in a "big hit" in the next season or so when he comes up against an Irish team.

No more than he deserves. .....the level of dirty hits being laid out by the English under Johnson is not the type of game/sportsmanship I want to see on a rugby pitch.

So you don't want to see the big hits but you take comfort from expecting Tuilagi to suffer under the sportsmanship of the dark arts?

I'd rather the big hits.