Rugby Championship 2024

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artaneboy
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Rugby Championship 2024

Post by artaneboy »

Ruckedtobits wrote:Ireland's win against the Boks in the second Test looking even better now. In particular, the performance of our pack in resisting the Bomb Squad in the final quarter deserves particular mention.

It's becoming increasingly clear that beating the Boks requires serious discipline and Ireland produced that in spades in that game. Obviously Frawley's double drop-goal(s) were the clinchers but the final scrum and subsequent line-out and ruck were critical parts of the victory.

Given we accomplished this win missing a few key players, the win is being polished by the subsequent Springbok displays.
Yes, that series is looking like a key event in the evolution of how we can perform- and how we can be perceived. I think on the latter we have moved subtly from be seen as a very good team, but one who could be bullied, into a rugby nation (note: not just focused on this group of players), who are tough, resilient and can find a way to compete and win. It’s different now.

I thought the SA test series was a burden too heavy on the players. And that may still prove to be true; obviously depending on the performance of the touring players in the new season. But the value of both those test performances is undeniable. The Saffers set it up as a ridiculous grudge series. They wanted to “put manners” on us. We met that challenge on both matches, indeed- while the drawn series was probably a fair result, we were good enough and played well enough to win both. That’s been noticed by the other nations, and that will affect how they play against us.

Looking forward to the Autumn now…
Last edited by artaneboy on September 1st, 2024, 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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riocard911
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by riocard911 »

artaneboy wrote: September 1st, 2024, 9:33 am
Ruckedtobits wrote:Ireland's win against the Boks in the second Test looking even better now. In particular, the performance of our pack in resisting the Bomb Squad in the final quarter deserves particular mention.

It's becoming increasingly clear that beating the Boks requires serious discipline and Ireland produced that in spades in that game. Obviously Frawley's double drop-goal(s) were the clinchers but the final scrum and subsequent line-out and ruck were critical parts of the victory.

Given we accomplished this win missing a few key players, the win is being polished by the subsequent Springbok displays.
Yes, that series is looking like a key event in the evolution of how we can perform- and how we can be perceived. I think on the latter we have moved subtlety from be seen as a very good team, but one who could be bullied, into a rugby nation (note: not just focused on this group of players), who are tough, resilient and can find a way to compete and win. It’s different now.

I thought the SA test series was a burden too heavy on the players. And that may still prove to be true; obviously depending on the performance of the touring players in the new season. But the value of both those test performances is undeniable. The Saffers set it up as a ridiculous grudge series. They wanted to “put manners” on us. We met that challenge on both matches, indeed- while the drawn series was probably a fair result, we were good enough and played well enough to win both. That’s been noticed by the other nations, and that will affect how they play against us.

Looking forward to the Autumn now…
100%! In that context, the sooner Leinster, as bulk supplier of the national team, dispose of the recently acquired mantle of being "chokers" the better!!!
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OneLungDavy
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by OneLungDavy »

artaneboy wrote: September 1st, 2024, 9:33 am Yes, that series is looking like a key event in the evolution of how we can perform- and how we can be perceived. I think on the latter we have moved subtlety from be seen as a very good team, but one who could be bullied, into a rugby nation (note: not just focused on this group of players), who are tough, resilient and can find a way to compete and win. It’s different now.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit and wondering if we've really established a playing philosophy that can be maintained over many generations. Can we become a consistent rugby powerhouse ("rugby nation") or is this just a golden generation?
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enby
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by enby »

Felipe must be raging with his team after they handed the match to Joe's lot. Argentina's inconsistency must be head wrecking
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by Ruckedtobits »

That was a seriously physical Test Match in very wet conditions. The end game by Referee and TMO made a balls up of the finish & the TMO should have quietly reminded the Referee to insist on getting an immediate decision from Oz as whether they were kicking for goal. Only then could he make a decision about the final whistle.

Australia has improved. Scrum is much better and they have Hugh variety in their line-outs. As they grow in confidence and play in better conditions, we'll see how much the backs have upped their game. The half-backs looked very comfortable going forward.
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by Ruckedtobits »

That was a seriously physical Test Match in very wet conditions. The end game by Referee and TMO made a balls up of the finish & the TMO should have quietly reminded the Referee to insist on getting an immediate decision from Oz as whether they were kicking for goal. Only then could he make a decision about the final whistle.

Australia has improved. Scrum is much better and they have huge variety in their line-outs. As they grow in confidence and play in better conditions, we'll see how much the backs have upped their game. The half-backs looked very comfortable going forward.
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by paddyor »

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/home-su ... st=2346450

Rest in piss the Rugby Championship. How exactly does this tie in with the Bi annual nations league thingy?
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riocard911
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by riocard911 »

paddyor wrote: September 3rd, 2024, 5:11 pm https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/home-su ... st=2346450

Rest in piss the Rugby Championship. How exactly does this tie in with the Bi annual nations league thingy?
No idea. But at the same time Antipodean rugby needs a bit of support, what with union in Oz at such a low ebb. This deal with SARU should help NZ maintain standards, while hopefully keeping the Boks out of the 6 Nations and scotching possible English efforts to hook their stars to the URC. That said, I still think the Kiwis should be looking to organise some kind of tie-up between Super Rugby and the league in Japan, as that's a lucrative market, they could be tapping into and growing.
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by neill_m »

paddyor wrote: September 3rd, 2024, 5:11 pm https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/home-su ... st=2346450

Rest in piss the Rugby Championship. How exactly does this tie in with the Bi annual nations league thingy?
The linked article

It's a go — Springboks and All Blacks to resume full tours in 2026
Formal agreements have been reached between South Africa and New Zealand for full tours to resume between the Springboks and All Blacks. It will be marketed as “The Greatest Rugby Rivalry”.
Craig Ray
03 Sep

All Blacks to embark on first full tour to South Africa in 30 years in 2026, featuring eight matches including Tests and contests against URC clubs.
Deal between Saru and NZR aims to strengthen connections between the old rivals, with a fourth Test likely to be staged outside of South Africa.
Series framework titled "Rugby's Greatest Rivalry" agreed upon, marking the 30th anniversary of the All Blacks' last tour to South Africa in 1996.
Income from tour to be shared evenly, with commercial and sponsorship challenges to overcome between the two unions.

Eight matches – including three Tests, four contests against United Rugby Championship (URC) clubs and one match against SA “A” will mark the All Blacks’ first full tour to South Africa in 30 years when they arrive in 2026.

There will be a fourth Test, but that will be staged outside of South Africa – probably played in London, or North America – that won’t form part of the official series.

These are the broad details of a deal between the South African Rugby Union (Saru) and New Zealand Rugby (NZR) to strengthen connections between the old foes.

The first series under this new agreement will be played in South Africa in 2026, marking the 30th anniversary of the All Blacks’ last tour to the Republic in 1996. Sean Fitzpatrick’s men won that series 2-1, becoming the first All Black team to ever win a series in South Africa.
The Boks will tour New Zealand in 2030, with a similar eight-match schedule. The 1937 tourists remain the only Springbok team to win a series in New Zealand.

Greatest Rugby Rivalry
The series framework has the working title “Rugby’s Greatest Rivalry” and will be marketed under that name. It will probably ruffle some feathers in the northern hemisphere, but objectively speaking the Boks and All Blacks have been rugby’s two strongest teams and brands for more than a century.

Last week the Saru and NZR leaders met in Johannesburg before the first Test between the Boks and All Blacks (as they regularly do) to finalise the details of the resumption of tours between the old foes.

Daily Maverick reported in February that full tours were set to resume after initial “positive talks”. The framework and details have now fully been agreed in principle and final contracts are being drafted.

“I just spent two days with the New Zealand leadership in what we are calling the Greatest Rugby Rivalry,” Saru chief executive Rian Oberholzer said on the eve of last week’s Rugby Championship Test between the Boks and All Blacks at Ellis Park. The Boks won 31-27.

“It’s a working title, although some people might say it is arrogant to say that,” Oberholzer continued. “We have signed a memorandum of understanding and we are in the planning phases now. We have a draft schedule that must still be agreed.

“We met with the commercial brokers on setting the commercial property, the sponsorship matrix and we will go to market in due course. We believe we have to be in the broadcast market soon.

“It is a collaboration of two unions that have agreed to work together off the field. We believe we have to be closer – and we have never been close.
“Let’s fight on the field and let’s work off the field to the betterment of both of the unions. We have such a challenge in rugby with funding, so we have to create our own opportunities, and that is what we are busy with at the moment.”

Sharing agreement
Income, in terms of commercial value and broadcasting rights for the tour will be shared evenly although the home union will take a larger share of the ticket and match-day revenue.

Unlike in years previously when all but the 1996 tour were held in the amateur era, and even that tour was in professional rugby’s infancy, there are some commercial headaches to overcome.

Both the Boks and the All Blacks, as well as Saru and NZR have commercial and sponsorship partners that might clash, or be competitors in the same market.

So part of the negotiations will be around what is “sacred” and what is not. In other words, whose branding might go where. While it sounds like a small thing, millions of dollars are at play.

“In principle, everything’s in order and the hard work starts now,” Oberholzer said.
“We have to do ticket pricing, for example. We will probably follow the Lions model by starting around the coast, come back, play the Test matches – three Test matches in South Africa – and one out of South Africa before the series starts.”

Rugby Championship impact
Naturally a tour of this nature will have an impact on the 2026 Rugby Championship, and also the 2030 edition of the tournament.
Rugby Australia and the Argentina Rugby Union are unlikely to be happy about this development, something Saru and NZR expect.
Regardless, South Africa and New Zealand have decided to put their own interests first in a difficult commercial climate. A tour of this nature will earn both unions hundreds of millions of rand, but will also create massive interest in the game again.
The All Blacks and Boks have won seven Rugby World Cups between them and have combined held the official No 1 ranking for 985 weeks (New Zealand 743 weeks and the Boks 242 weeks) out of the 1095 weeks since rankings were introduced.

“The Rugby Championship will still happen, but it will probably be a single round, which we are pushing for,” Oberholzer said.
“If it is not going to happen, we as Saru did say to Argentina and Australia that we will play one-off Test matches against them. That is a discussion that we need finally in the second week of September.”
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by Ruckedtobits »

So World Rugby works it's butt off to unite international rugby and just as soon as they can pull it all together, the Boks and NZ give the new competition (and any sort of unified approach) two fingers and shout at the top of their voices "That's it, we're off to the Greatest Rivalry in World rugby. See ye"..

The arrogance of them both. France, Ireland and England all need to redouble their efforts to knock both Boks & NZ off their perch and hope that Aussies & Argentina can keep improving so that it becomes apparent that there's more than two at the top.

Sponsorship & TV will flood to the new "spectacle" and that's why it's vital that results tell the world, "there's more than two at the top".
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by Morf »

Ruckedtobits wrote: September 4th, 2024, 9:59 pm So World Rugby works it's butt off to unite international rugby and just as soon as they can pull it all together, the Boks and NZ give the new competition (and any sort of unified approach) two fingers and shout at the top of their voices "That's it, we're off to the Greatest Rivalry in World rugby. See ye"..

The arrogance of them both. France, Ireland and England all need to redouble their efforts to knock both Boks & NZ off their perch and hope that Aussies & Argentina can keep improving so that it becomes apparent that there's more than two at the top.

Sponsorship & TV will flood to the new "spectacle" and that's why it's vital that results tell the world, "there's more than two at the top".
NZRU need to pay their debts to Silver Lake. SARU aren't in a RWC year so quotas/government funding can be messed about with at any time to suit political ends. Both know it's highly viable financially. Why should they lose out because Rugby Australia is a dumpster fire?
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by Dave Cahill »

I'm not sure what's so terrible, or brilliant, about this (apart from the full tour element). South Africa and New Zealand alternating tours every four years is not the visigoths at the gate, in fact, its kind of the opposite.
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by kff15 »

Dave Cahill wrote: September 5th, 2024, 8:41 am I'm not sure what's so terrible, or brilliant, about this (apart from the full tour element). South Africa and New Zealand alternating tours every four years is not the visigoths at the gate, in fact, its kind of the opposite.
Panic - the Visigoths are already inside the gates!!!

(At least I think that's the opposite to at the gates!)
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by FtD »

Big risk they're both taking in this is just diluting the quality of the product by playing too regularly.

Part of what makes rivalries great is the chance to lord it over the opponents when you get the big win, and the simmering resentment from their fans while they wait for the next chance to turn the tide.

If there is always another game just around the corner, you lose some of that IMO.

These two teams already played each other very regularly IMO.
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by neill_m »

Springbok team to face New Zealand in Cape Town:
15 – Willie le Roux (Vodacom Bulls) – 96 caps, 75 pts (15t)
14 – Canan Moodie (Vodacom Bulls) – 10 caps, 25 pts (5t)
13 – Jesse Kriel (Canon Eagles) – 74 caps, 80 points (16t)
12 –Damian de Allende (Wild Knights) – 83 caps, 55 points (11t)
11 – Cheslin Kolbe (Suntory Sungoliath) – 36 caps, 96 points (15t, 3c, 5p)
10 – Handre Pollard (Leicester Tigers) – 74 caps, 734 points (7t, 99c, 162p, 5dg)
9 – Grant Williams (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 14 caps, 15 points (3t)
8 – Jasper Wiese (Urayasu D-Rocks) – 28 caps, 5 points (1t)
7 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz) – 82 caps, 45 points (9t)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Racing 92) – 87 caps, 55 points (11t)
5 – Ruan Nortje (Vodacom Bulls) – 3 caps, 0 points
4 – Eben Etzebeth (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 125 caps, 30 points (6t)
3 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 74 caps, 5 points (1t)
2 – Bongi Mbonambi (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 73 caps, 75 points (15t)
1 – Ox Nche (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 34 caps, 0 points

Replacements:
16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 70 caps, 95 points (19t)
17 – Gerhard Steenekamp (Vodacom Bulls) – 5 caps, 0 points
18 – Vincent Koch (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 55 caps, 0 points
19 – Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs) – 46 caps, 45 points (9t)
20 – Elrigh Louw (Vodacom Bulls) – 7 caps, 0 points
21 – Jaden Hendrikse (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 15 caps, 12 pts (2t, 1c)
22 – Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu (DHL Stormers) – 7 caps, 49 points (14c, 4p)
23 – Lukhanyo Am (Hollywoodbets Sharks) - 37 caps, 35 pts (7t)
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by neill_m »

All Blacks match-day 23 (Test caps in brackets)

1.    Tamaiti Williams (10)
2.    Codie Taylor (90)
3.    Tyrel Lomax (37) 
4.    Scott Barrett (73) (Captain)
5.    Tupou Vaa’i (31)
6.    Wallace Sititi (2)
7.    Sam Cane (97)
8.    Ardie Savea (87) (Vice Captain)
9.    Cortez Ratima (5)
10.  Damian McKenzie (53)
11.  Mark Tele’a (14)
12.  Jordie Barrett (63) (Vice Captain)
13.  Rieko Ioane (74)
14.  Sevu Reece (27)
15.  Will Jordan (34)

16. Asafo Aumua (12)
17. Ofa Tu’ungafasi (62)
18. Fletcher Newell (19)
19. Sam Darry (4)
20. Luke Jacobson (21)
21. TJ Perenara (85)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (76)
23. Beauden Barrett (129)
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riocard911
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by riocard911 »

Beauden Barrett on the bench? Doesn't make sense to me. Boks to win - big time!
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by Capitán »

I think you get the most out of Jordan at 15 but not sure the trade off is worth it with McKenzie at 10. Yet to be convinced by him as a test level outhalf and I think having BB on the pitch has made his life easier.

Interested to see what SA look like with Pollard back at 10 after impressive outings from SFM. Having Le Roux back will also make his life easier. You really can't pick out weak points in that SA 23.

SA by 12.
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by paddyor »

Dave Cahill wrote: September 5th, 2024, 8:41 am I'm not sure what's so terrible, or brilliant, about this (apart from the full tour element). South Africa and New Zealand alternating tours every four years is not the visigoths at the gate, in fact, its kind of the opposite.
Rome wasn't even capital when that happened so not sure this is the right analogy.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
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Re: Rugby Championship 2024

Post by FtD »

Think some of the ABs changes are injury enforced - they mentioned both Ethan Blackadder and Caleb Clarke (both of whom were very good last week IMO) are injury enforced omissions anyway.

I think they're hoping to get more ball in Will Jordan's hands, which I get, but they definitely lose something by not having Beauden in the XV.

Rieko Ioane is the guy who's fortunate to still be there IMO - I think he's had a poor enough run of games. I thought the AB pack coped well last week, but Sititi is quite a different player to Blackadder, so they'll lose some of that scrappiness around the ruck in particular.

On the Bok side - bit disappointed to see Pollard back in for SFM. I've been impressed with Sacha, and thought there would have been merit in giving him more opportunities. Definitely agree they're a more dangerous backline though with Willie le Roux back in.
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