Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

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artaneboy
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by artaneboy »

the spoofer wrote:
riocard911 wrote: July 9th, 2024, 4:29 pm
Logorrhea wrote: July 9th, 2024, 3:53 pm "Dicko" was my least fav English ref, until the mess that was the HEC final and last weeks test. Not sure where I stand now but I am starting to think that the English ref's have something against Irish teams to be honest.
They have. Like the rest of the English rugby community they're jealous of Ireland's and Leinster's recent success and think Paddy has gotten too big for his boots.
Croppy lie down.
That’s the phrase that came to my mind.
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by propertymad »

Nigel Owens absolutely hanging Ben Whitehouse out to dry here ....

And Jaco Peyper too for that matter

https://youtu.be/91tCDEhtBic?si=JtaOkcQQSBjCf0m5
Last edited by propertymad on July 10th, 2024, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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artaneboy
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by artaneboy »

locho wrote:
Logorrhea wrote: July 9th, 2024, 3:53 pm "Dicko" was my least fav English ref, until the mess that was the HEC final and last weeks test. Not sure where I stand now but I am starting to think that the English ref's have something against Irish teams to be honest.
I agree with this, and I think there is a reason for it. This crop of English Referees are very open to working with the media/teams/organisations to ensure transparency. We've heard a lot about the premier league working with referees to make the game(product) better etc. This has also led to a disparity in style which has effected English teams in Europe.

I think that the awareness they have of the media, particularly new media e.g. Rugby podcasts is having an influence on their approach (not specific decisions but just overall approach). There is a narrative around Ireland and Leinster in particular in the last couple of years that we are an "on the edge" team especially at the breakdown and that we have a weak scrum with Porter flagged. I believe that this narrative perpetuated by ex. England pros and commentators has been absorbed by this group of referees and is starting to translate itself onto the pitch. We've seen it now on several occasions recently.

People may laugh this off, but it goes to the "matey" culture started by Barnes. These English refs love the attention and you can be sure they pay lots of it to the media and what the various English Pods/commentary is saying about them. A related example of this influence was seen in a prem game late in the season where the ref and TMO didn't make a decision as it had been commentated on by Austin Healy mid-game and were worried they'd be seen as being influenced by him so they are clearly aware of it.
I don’t laugh it off at all. The English refs, in particular are “media whores” and they’ve supped long and deep from the Premiership trough on why the ‘Prem’ style is the one true way.

Our tradition of distancing players from the media has led to a narrative gap on the operation of our game, that others have filled with their own partial agendas. The podcasters- such as Hamilton and Goode, will openly say that as Irish players don’t talk to them, they listen and channel those teams that do give them access.


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offshorerules
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by offshorerules »

Oldschoolsocks wrote: July 10th, 2024, 1:31 pm
offshorerules wrote: July 10th, 2024, 12:43 pm
riocard911 wrote: July 10th, 2024, 9:03 am

Not if he wins three world cups on the trot. Achieve that and he's immortal. And that's what he's going for.
I was thinking of Clive Woodward when I originally posted.
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"POC will not be going to Toulon" - All Blacks nil » May 27th, 2015, 12:18 am
Observingprop123
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by Observingprop123 »

Irish Times team has Beirne at 6, JO'B on the wing, and Murray starting. Can't say I disagree with any of those selections.
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by Flash Gordon »

Observingprop123 wrote: July 11th, 2024, 9:08 am Irish Times team has Beirne at 6, JO'B on the wing, and Murray starting. Can't say I disagree with any of those selections.
IRELAND (possible): J Osborne; J O’Brien, G Ringrose, B Aki, J Lowe; J Crowley, C Murray; A Porter, R Kelleher, T Furlong; J McCarthy, J Ryan; T Beirne, J van der Flier, C Doris (capt).

Selection is ok. At Scrum half, it is what it is given the alternatives but that Murray comes in as a 35 year old second choice for his club scrum half which isn't ideal.
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Lock9541
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by Lock9541 »

Flash Gordon wrote: July 11th, 2024, 9:29 am
Observingprop123 wrote: July 11th, 2024, 9:08 am Irish Times team has Beirne at 6, JO'B on the wing, and Murray starting. Can't say I disagree with any of those selections.
IRELAND (possible): J Osborne; J O’Brien, G Ringrose, B Aki, J Lowe; J Crowley, C Murray; A Porter, R Kelleher, T Furlong; J McCarthy, J Ryan; T Beirne, J van der Flier, C Doris (capt).

Selection is ok. At Scrum half, it is what it is given the alternatives but that Murray comes in as a 35 year old second choice for his club scrum half which isn't ideal.
Team is correct except Henshaw starting 12 and Nash at 14
Last edited by Lock9541 on July 11th, 2024, 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LeinsterLeader
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Not much has been said about Nash from last week (good, bad or indifferent). I thought he was fairly pedestrian myself. Not sure if JOB would be an improvement but I wouldn't mind seeing.
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by Dave Cahill »

Flash Gordon wrote: July 11th, 2024, 9:29 am Selection is ok. At Scrum half, it is what it is given the alternatives but that Murray comes in as a 35 year old second choice for his club scrum half which isn't ideal.
On the other hand, there aren't many countries (any countries perhaps) whose third-choice scrum half is as good as Conor Murray
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the spoofer
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by the spoofer »

Dave Cahill wrote: July 11th, 2024, 11:07 am
Flash Gordon wrote: July 11th, 2024, 9:29 am Selection is ok. At Scrum half, it is what it is given the alternatives but that Murray comes in as a 35 year old second choice for his club scrum half which isn't ideal.
On the other hand, there aren't many countries (any countries perhaps) whose third-choice scrum half is as good as Conor Murray
Murray also has the size to withstand some of the attention he will get from the Saffa forwards
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by Flash Gordon »

Dave Cahill wrote: July 11th, 2024, 11:07 am
Flash Gordon wrote: July 11th, 2024, 9:29 am Selection is ok. At Scrum half, it is what it is given the alternatives but that Murray comes in as a 35 year old second choice for his club scrum half which isn't ideal.
On the other hand, there aren't many countries (any countries perhaps) whose third-choice scrum half is as good as Conor Murray
No that's fair. I'm a fan of Blade I have to admit, would have liked to see him get more game time and would definitely have him at Leinster!
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propertymad
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by propertymad »

So POM is dropped? Not before time

Bench props are key .... Faz needs to bite the bullet on Healy
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by Capitán »

propertymad wrote: July 11th, 2024, 11:59 am So POM is dropped? Not before time

Bench props are key .... Faz needs to bite the bullet on Healy
But would that be a first pro appearance at LH for TOT then?
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by Smokingdarts »

15. Jamie Osborne (Naas/Leinster)(1)
14. Calvin Nash (Young Munster/Munster)(7)
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)(59)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)(73)
11. James Lowe (Leinster)(32)
10. Jack Crowley (Cork Constitution/Munster)(15)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) (117)

1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)(65)
2. Rónan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)(32)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)(77)
4. Joe McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster)(11)
5. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)(63)
6. Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster)(51)
7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)(63)
8. Caelan Doris (St Mary’s College/Leinster)(42)(captain)

Replacements:

16. Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)(39)
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)(130)
18. Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)(41)
19. Ryan Baird (Dublin University/Leinster)(21)
20. Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)(106)
21. Caolin Blade (Galwegians/Connacht)(2)
22. Ciaran Frawley (UCD/Leinster)(5)
23. Stuart McCloskey (Bangor/Ulster)(17).
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by offshorerules »

Dropping your captain is a gutsy move IMHO.
"POC will not be going to Toulon" - All Blacks nil » May 27th, 2015, 12:18 am
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by Observingprop123 »

offshorerules wrote: July 11th, 2024, 2:08 pm Dropping your captain is a gutsy move IMHO.
Farrell made the mistake 6 months ago of making the weakest link in the XV the captain.
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by theiceman »

why fkn bother bringing Timoney, Izuchukwu, Prendergast if none of them are going to feature on the bench? POM shouldn’t be on this team anymore if he’s not captain
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by propertymad »

Capitán wrote: July 11th, 2024, 12:51 pm
propertymad wrote: July 11th, 2024, 11:59 am So POM is dropped? Not before time

Bench props are key .... Faz needs to bite the bullet on Healy
But would that be a first pro appearance at LH for TOT then?
He could have put Bealham in as replacement losehead, with TOT or Jager covering TH ..... but it's moot now

Porter will likely play the whole game unless he gets injured
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by propertymad »

offshorerules wrote: July 11th, 2024, 2:08 pm Dropping your captain is a gutsy move IMHO.
It is .... but it was a daft move to make him captain in the first place

I would have gone further and brought Izuchukwu into the 23 at POM's expense ..... he was anonymous last week (except when he was shoveling Hospital passes to Beirne), and he's not going to offer much in terms of bench impact compared to Izzy
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Re: Ireland Tour of South Africa July 2024

Post by ronk »

You want your captain on the pitch at the end of a game, not the start. And POM has more to offer as a sub.

Better move.
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