RWC 2023: The Other Teams

[brotheroffrank]

Alun-Wyn Jones and Justin Tipuric both announced their international retirements today.

Great planning by Wales for WC. Pick lads for 6N who are going to retire just after. Very strange carry on

either Fiji or Georgia must now consider themselves contenders for a Quarter Final spot ahead of Wales...

[Ruckedtobits]

Alun-Wyn Jones and Justin Tipuric both announced their international retirements today.

Clearly Gatland had conversations with all of his panel of 54(?) players and having outlined his plans for RWC ,he also afforded AWJ & Tipuric to walk before they were excluded at next cut in Squad. I think this is sensible and decent behaviour by Gatland and Welsh fans will appreciate
It.

[ronk]

Alun-Wyn Jones and Justin Tipuric both announced their international retirements today.

Clearly Gatland had conversations with all of his panel of 54(?) players and having outlined his plans for RWC ,he also afforded AWJ & Tipuric to walk before they were excluded at next cut in Squad. I think this is sensible and decent behaviour by Gatland and Welsh fans will appreciate
It.

LOL.

Wales squad threatened strike for the England game. Retiring from international rugby 4 months out from a world cup is a work to rule. They're not announcing full retirements, they're announcing that they won't play for Wales again.

It's the biggest FU they could send to the WRU. I haven't seen news of contract renewals with the Ospreys so maybe it's a way to reject a contract offer that cuts them post RWC or maybe they're showing solidarity for colleagues in bad situations, maybe they think international retirement gets them better offers for non Welsh (French) clubs.

If Gatland was looking to let them down gently he'd let others fight for their places and just use them less in the RWC, which is trivially easy.

These lads are massive legends in Wales, you'd back yourself to at least hold out for an injury or take a few months more salary. Formally refusing to play international rugby while being paid by the same union is not usual, it's not healthy.

[sunshiner1]

by ronk

LOL.

Wales squad threatened strike for the England game. Retiring from international rugby 4 months out from a world cup is a work to rule. They're not announcing full retirements, they're announcing that they won't play for Wales again.

It's the biggest FU they could send to the WRU. I haven't seen news of contract renewals with the Ospreys so maybe it's a way to reject a contract offer that cuts them post RWC or maybe they're showing solidarity for colleagues in bad situations, maybe they think international retirement gets them better offers for non Welsh (French) clubs.

If Gatland was looking to let them down gently he'd let others fight for their places and just use them less in the RWC, which is trivially easy.

These lads are massive legends in Wales, you'd back yourself to at least hold out for an injury or take a few months more salary. Formally refusing to play international rugby while being paid by the same union is not usual, it's not healthy.

Agreed. This strikes me as FU to Gatland. I'm sure more will come out in the next few days.

[ronk]

Rhys Webb now too.
https://www.ruck.co.uk/wales-star-rhys- ... world-cup/

With 40 caps he was eligible to continue his Wales career abroad and he's pulling out of a training squad he was already named in, which makes this more nakedly about contract issues.

Either he's lashing out at WRU (but not fans) over not getting a contract or he needs to do this to get the contract he wants.

[IanD]

BBC News - Rhys Carre: Cardiff prop released from Wales World Cup squad for 'failing to meet targets'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65779199

From the above article

"Rhys Carre has been released from the Wales senior men's preliminary training squad for Rugby World Cup 2023," the Welsh Rugby Union said.

"Following ongoing discussions between the player and the Wales coaching team, Carre has failed to meet individual performance targets set at the end of the 2023 Guinness Six Nations."

Not for the first time. Also from the above article.

"The former Saracens player was omitted from Wales' squad for last year's autumn internationals despite some impressive displays for Cardiff, with then national coach Wayne Pivac saying he had "fallen short" in his "general conditioning"."

[ronk]

Wales are like us. Their game needs them to be faster and fitter than the opposition. It's tough because on 1 level you have a powerful an effective player who's even more important to them, but they also need players to be in top shape.

They can't slow down and time waste for him if the rest of the team need a faster game.

This hasn't landed well at a time when there's already a lot of tension in Wales and 3 other players just quit. Team management should have been more discrete about it. It was probably supposed to motivate the rest of the squad, but it might not have that effect.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Some players rely on talent all the way through schools and get found out in the academies. Some players are just so talented that they can play while out of shape to a really high standard, but it always catches up.

Think of Simon Zebo who had/has the talent to be truly world class but just by all appearances didn't/won’t put the work in to stay in shape.

He got away with it at provincial level and had a good career with Munster and PSG, but think if just how good that man could have been with the work ethic and discipline of someone like Dave Kearney.

[ronk]

Yeah, and some players just don't fit a system.

Imagine the excitement if we had a 23 year old Bob Casey. Wrong player for the wrong time.

If Carre moved to the south of France they'd try to bulk him up.

[hugonaut]

Wales are like us. Their game needs them to be faster and fitter than the opposition. It's tough because on 1 level you have a powerful an effective player who's even more important to them, but they also need players to be in top shape.

They can't slow down and time waste for him if the rest of the team need a faster game.

This hasn't landed well at a time when there's already a lot of tension in Wales and 3 other players just quit. Team management should have been more discrete about it. It was probably supposed to motivate the rest of the squad, but it might not have that effect.

I think that this is almost unbelievable. Terrible man-management and squad management from Gatland.

If there is nothing more to this than Carré missing weigh-in targets, it seems really extreme to axe him from a RWC training squad in June. What if they get a couple of injuries down the line at loosehead? Do they come crawling back to a player they have publicly told to f*ck off home? At least if you have him in camp you can work him like a sled dog. Now you've told him that he is surplus to requirements, he is probably going to head off and drown his sorrows [literally or metaphorically], lose his motivation and put on more weight.

Just as an aside, Carré should [in my opinion, very definitely] play TH – at 191cm and 131kg, that's the position he was born to play. Those are TH dimensions, not LH dimensions. It's a better fit for him, and there's far more money at TH than LH.

And to the most important thing: he's good. He's a good player. If he's not fit enough to play Warrenball, use him as a sub for 20 mins. Wales are not loaded down with talent, so to cut him at this stage seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[Ruckedtobits]

These results are not accidental but certainly don't look good for Oz:

Waratah beaten at home by Moana Pasifica: 24-33
Fijian Drua beat Reds: 41-17.

Watch out for Fiji and Samoa in RWC.

[ustix]

These results are not accidental but certainly don't look good for Oz:

Waratah beaten at home by Moana Pasifica: 24-33
Fijian Drua beat Reds: 41-17.

Watch out for Fiji and Samoa in RWC.

Agus Tonga

[neill_m]

These results are not accidental but certainly don't look good for Oz:

Waratah beaten at home by Moana Pasifica: 24-33
Fijian Drua beat Reds: 41-17.

Watch out for Fiji and Samoa in RWC.

Moana's 1st win of season. Tahs locked into 6th before hand so may well have not picked a full side. Watch the Breakdown on YouTube from Sky Sports NZ on a weekly basis and they reckon Moana should base themselves in Samoa v currently in Auckland.

Drua play games in Fiji and are hard to beat there. They finished 7th. Reds finished 8th.

Highlanders, Force, Rebels and Moana missed out on playoffs in SR.

[Flash Gordon]

Yeah, and some players just don't fit a system.

Imagine the excitement if we had a 23 year old Bob Casey. Wrong player for the wrong time.

If Carre moved to the south of France they'd try to bulk him up.

He was the right player but never got picked. Him and Nick Kennedy were the best lock combo in the Premiership (Kennedy was also Irish qualified) and guys like Mick Galwey and Trevor Brenna were winning caps, both extremely average players. To be fair later POC, DOC and Big Mal were all very good players but Bo's return of 7 caps was paltry given his ability.

[ronk]

Brennan is another example of a player flourishing in a different system. He was stopping Ireland playing the way they wanted to play, but he allowed Toulouse to play the way they wanted to play and was a hero.

He was Makelele letting Zidane be Zidane. I can say that Casey would have been better used here and now, but Jack Dunne left and he's probably the most similar player to Casey we've had since.

[Flash Gordon]

Brennan is another example of a player flourishing in a different system. He was stopping Ireland playing the way they wanted to play, but he allowed Toulouse to play the way they wanted to play and was a hero.

He was Makelele letting Zidane be Zidane. I can say that Casey would have been better used here and now, but Jack Dunne left and he's probably the most similar player to Casey we've had since.

Not sure Jack would have been as bulky as Bob. To this day I still don't understand Brennan's success at Toulouse, he absolutely was no Zidane (aside from the whole "don't insult my mother" thing....) but he started 3 Heineken Cup finals for Toulouse, no arguing with his record!

[ronk]

Brennan is another example of a player flourishing in a different system. He was stopping Ireland playing the way they wanted to play, but he allowed Toulouse to play the way they wanted to play and was a hero.

He was Makelele letting Zidane be Zidane. I can say that Casey would have been better used here and now, but Jack Dunne left and he's probably the most similar player to Casey we've had since.

Not sure Jack would have been as bulky as Bob. To this day I still don't understand Brennan's success at Toulouse, he absolutely was no Zidane (aside from the whole "don't insult my mother" thing....) but he started 3 Heineken Cup finals for Toulouse, no arguing with his record!

He was the goon (like the ice hockey role). He was there to do the unglamorous work, to free up other players for more glamorous work and to protect the skills players from thuggery.

If someone took out a Toulouse player, he was the one who was going to do something about it, whether it was going to hurt him too, whether he was going toget 10 minutes.

[sunshiner1]

y Flash Gordon

He was the right player but never got picked. Him and Nick Kennedy were the best lock combo in the Premiership (Kennedy was also Irish qualified) and guys like Mick Galwey and Trevor Brenna were winning caps, both extremely average players. To be fair later POC, DOC and Big Mal were all very good players but Bo's return of 7 caps was paltry given his ability.

Never understood why he didn't get more caps. Our front row back then wasn't amazing so you'd think having the likes of Casey pushing would have been a huge asset. TBF POC, DOC and Mal were insane players too.

[paddyor]

Fiji lost their coach after Wales and the Drua are in financial dire straits can't see them being much cop at the RWC.

[propertymad]

Fiji lost their coach after Wales and the Drua are in financial dire straits can't see them being much cop at the RWC.

You're in for a shock then ...... Fiji have Wales first up in the group and in my book they're slight favourites

Even if Wales win that opening match, they will likely have to play a full strength side against Georgia and Portugal to get out of the Group. Georgia will fancy their chances too ....