Sevens

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leinsterforever
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Re: Sevens

Post by leinsterforever »

It would be great to see a World Series leg in Ireland. I think the New Zealand leg hasn't been well attended lately, so switching to Ireland would be economically attractive. Irish fans love an event, as Pairc Uí Caoimh selling out shows, and there's a team to get behind with Ireland performing at such a high level.
OTT
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Re: Sevens

Post by OTT »

Think Dardis got an extra year and never played a game, Kelly moved to Munster after two years having not played a game (I think) and didn’t make it there and Kennedy completed the academy having never played a game. (I think). So getting cut early or released on completion.

None of them have made it back yet to 15s. You can move the goalposts and get into semantics if you want, I have my opinion and you have yours. No problem.

Edit: it was Jack Power who went to Munster apologies.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Sevens

Post by Dave Cahill »

leinsterforever wrote: September 12th, 2022, 4:58 pm To address Dave's point of whether there have been any players who solely played 7s and then went on to be good 15s players, would a fair number of Fijians not fit into that category? 7s is huge in Fiji. It's probably the game players play most over there when they're growing up? And there's a neverending stream of ridiculously able players going to league and union 15s.
Fiji is a bit of an outlier - it's the one traditional rugby country where Sevens is the predominant form of the sport (and I include Scotland in that!)

There's a lot less crossover than you'd imagine, the Fijian squad that won gold in Tokyo only had one XVs international, Radradra, and the Commonwealth team in 2018 had four, most with only a handful of caps. Of course, you also have to factor in how hard Fiji find it to get meaningful international games at Xvs and how hard they find it to secure player release from France and England. Hopefully, the Drua will see that change
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wixfjord
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Re: Sevens

Post by wixfjord »

JOB certainly values the 7s experience as improving him -

https://www.the42.ie/jimmy-obrien-leins ... 8-Nov2019/
“It gave me a lot of confidence for taking lads on,” said O’Brien this week at Leinster’s UCD training base. “I came into it as a number 10 or 12, looking to pass the ball.

“With the 7s, you’re told to take guys on one-on-one and that gives you confidence.

“On the flip-side, you have to get better at your defending because everyone else is trying to do that to you, trying to beat you one-on-one.

“That helps, plus fitness and speed and things like that. I got a lot faster. If I hadn’t done 7s, I wouldn’t be as fast.”
So does HK -
https://www.the42.ie/hugo-keenan-irelan ... 1-Feb2021/
https://www.the42.ie/hugo-keenan-leinst ... 1-Oct2019/
"You get your hands on the ball, you have a lot of involvements there. You’re distributing 10/15-metre passes so it increases your skills and gets you comfortable on the ball. It definitely helped me improve."
"There was a lot of competition when I came into the academy in 2016 so it was good for me to get more exposure with the sevens and get a bit more experience at an international standard. It’s great for back threes and centres just to improve your game and I’m glad I did it."
“The Sevens is good for it. I played out-half with them and that really challenged me. I was an out-half in school up until fourth year and then I moved to the back-three, but that was never at a great level.

“The Sevens sort of gave me good exposure at that international level. I know it’s a bit different, but it certainly tests your skills."

There's two recent Irish test players talking about lots of of specifically rugby related benefits of playing 7s Dave.

You've had this opinion for a long time. Maybe time to revisit it in light of the above comments?
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Sevens

Post by Dave Cahill »

If I were to revise my opinion every time a player made a comment I would have been dizzy from thinking that Declan Kidney was a terrible coach, a great coach, a terrible coach, a great coach, a terrible coach over the span of 6 or 7 years!

It's fair enough if they feel they got something out of it and I wouldn't deny that they honestly believe what they are saying.

On the other hand, we both know that players will pretty much always say the 'right' thing (“Over the last two years, Mattie has really opened up our game" - Jamie Heaslip). Sevens is their boss's pet project and the Men's Sevens Programme is the one thing he can point at and say, uncontested, "that was me, it is a success and I am responsible for it". It is a successful programme and Nucifora is the originating and driving force behind it.

So you look at guys who have pretty much the full set of 'honours' on every step of the pyramid who have played the game probably since they were in single digits and it turns out they are quite good at rugby. Did sevens help them? Sure. Could they have gotten that help elsewhere - perhaps Sevens has highlighted a gap in our coaching structure. (from above, perhaps athletics coaching to improve speed).
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riocard911
Seán Cronin
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Re: Sevens

Post by riocard911 »

DC: "If I were to revise my opinion every time a player made a comment I would have been dizzy from thinking that Declan Kidney was a terrible coach, a great coach, a terrible coach, a great coach, a terrible coach over the span of 6 or 7 years!"

Hilarious and 100% on the money! LMFAO!!! :-)
wixfjord
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Re: Sevens

Post by wixfjord »

Dave Cahill wrote: September 13th, 2022, 9:14 am If I were to revise my opinion every time a player made a comment I would have been dizzy from thinking that Declan Kidney was a terrible coach, a great coach, a terrible coach, a great coach, a terrible coach over the span of 6 or 7 years!

It's fair enough if they feel they got something out of it and I wouldn't deny that they honestly believe what they are saying.

On the other hand, we both know that players will pretty much always say the 'right' thing (“Over the last two years, Mattie has really opened up our game" - Jamie Heaslip). Sevens is their boss's pet project and the Men's Sevens Programme is the one thing he can point at and say, uncontested, "that was me, it is a success and I am responsible for it". It is a successful programme and Nucifora is the originating and driving force behind it.

So you look at guys who have pretty much the full set of 'honours' on every step of the pyramid who have played the game probably since they were in single digits and it turns out they are quite good at rugby. Did sevens help them? Sure. Could they have gotten that help elsewhere - perhaps Sevens has highlighted a gap in our coaching structure. (from above, perhaps athletics coaching to improve speed).
We have two players here who, if you look at their game on the pitch, have clearly picked up skills from 7s, saying they've improved because of 7s.

If that's not a reason to say 'maybe it actually does have a positive impact' then I'm not sure what is.
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ronk
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Re: Sevens

Post by ronk »

Two players who learnt to play a role that didn't exist in any 15s team that were playing for or regularly against for most of their careers.

7s made them focus on some skills they probably should have had anyway.

But it's as easy to say that Lancaster liked additional playmakers and was good at developing and trusting players with those skills. Or you could say that Keenan was a promising player who worked extremely hard on his conditioning during the Covid shutdown and came back on a different level (the timing of his rise fits that story).

The 7s version might be true, it's also the version that most pleases the person he most needs to impress when he asks for a central contract.
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jezzer
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Re: Sevens

Post by jezzer »

https://youtu.be/YBwx2kEjR8o

But, of course, he would say that...
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jezzer
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Re: Sevens

Post by jezzer »

Something not referenced in the video that is huge for fifteens - and especially for Irish rugby - is the reload.

Ireland's game plan is largely based around speed of reload from phase to phase and in turnover situations. We've gone from being slow at realigning, setting depth and then moving forward (in attack and equally defence) to being great at it. It's the foundation of our game now.

Sevens is a great place to learn the importance of quick reloads and techniques to do it. Keenan is one of our best proponents too, in terms of how he flows naturally to where the space is in attack and the overload in defence.

I'm amazed this is even a discussion frankly. It's not like anybody is arguing sevens is the default development route for all future Ireland players or that it's even any better of a route than staying in 15s or that it can help players of every position.

I wouldn't have thought you'd need Keenan or anyone else to explain what happens in sevens that's beneficial for 15s because watching one game of sevens should pretty much tell you that already. The guy in the vid adds on some extra layers around physical prep, touring, mental fatigue, big occasions etc but the skills based bit is obvious to anyone.
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