Tour to NZ 2022

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Xanthippe
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Xanthippe »

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Ruckedtobits
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Flash Gordon wrote: July 6th, 2022, 4:02 pm
ronk wrote: July 6th, 2022, 3:41 pm Nonsense isn't a strong enough word. There's a serious level of groupthink that's disconnected to reality. Even the idea of a selection debate is seriously strange. A year ago there were concerns when some people thought he was fading. Those have been put to bed and the gap is now larger than when Carbery was still at Leinster.

People also lose sight of the fact that NZ were playing their first game in front of a full crowd after a bigger lockdown than even us. They were riding an emotional wave that made them almost unbeatable, we actually played well.
I would say the opposite of what you said on them being unbeatable. We had beaten them and there was a massive amount of hype around the fact that they haven't lost at Eden Park since 1994. We had them on the rack in the first quarter, they were struggling to live with us and they looked nervy and unsure. We gifted them opportunities, let them back in and they visibly grew in confidence. As I said, poor execution of the right game plan lost us the game. The work on is get better at the execution of the right game plan not move to a completely different game plan using the type of players we actually don't have!!
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Barry
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Barry »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote: July 6th, 2022, 4:02 pm
ronk wrote: July 6th, 2022, 3:41 pm Nonsense isn't a strong enough word. There's a serious level of groupthink that's disconnected to reality. Even the idea of a selection debate is seriously strange. A year ago there were concerns when some people thought he was fading. Those have been put to bed and the gap is now larger than when Carbery was still at Leinster.

People also lose sight of the fact that NZ were playing their first game in front of a full crowd after a bigger lockdown than even us. They were riding an emotional wave that made them almost unbeatable, we actually played well.
I would say the opposite of what you said on them being unbeatable. We had beaten them and there was a massive amount of hype around the fact that they haven't lost at Eden Park since 1994. We had them on the rack in the first quarter, they were struggling to live with us and they looked nervy and unsure. We gifted them opportunities, let them back in and they visibly grew in confidence. As I said, poor execution of the right game plan lost us the game. The work on is get better at the execution of the right game plan not move to a completely different game plan using the type of players we actually don't have!!
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paddyor
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by paddyor »

Murray Kinsella heavily implies the nations cup is going to happen and this is likely the last tour on the latest 42 pod.
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the spoofer
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by the spoofer »

Earls dropped, Hansen in. Herring and Bealham to the bench.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

Having Herring back is a big boost imo.

Hansen will give our backline more unpredictability also and he'll bring a bit more energy.

I'm confident that this side will much closer, assuming we can tighten the lineout up and control the ball better.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

Image

NZ side.

Papalii is a cracking player, but Whitelock is clearly a loss, particularly at lineout.

Bench doesn't look hugely frightening, and then you get to #22 and #23 :shock: .
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Cheeses of Nazareth »

Bench looks a bit stronger than last week. Great to have the sub front row back. Hopefully Healy is good to go. The only one i’m unsure about is Treadwell but we are quite ‘skinny’ in the second row at the moment. Not sure exactly what he brings. Is he particularly good in the set piece?

Would have liked to see Baird, Coombes and Larmour get a place on the bench for a bit more impact but Aki went well last week and it’s hard to drop one of Doris, VDF, POM and Conan at the moment as they’re going well as a unit.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I think it was Furlong who said we've focused on the set piece this week, hope it pays off. I have to say I'd have been tempted to start Herring, nothing against Sheehan but he played most of the 80 minutes last week and offers great impact off the bench. Given that it's one of the few positions we could bring in a fresh body I think we should have. I think I'd have gone with Ed on the bench as well.

I really hope that Baird isn't just seen as a back row now. Apologies for repeating myself but even as someone who used to think 6 should be his primary position it shouldn't be seen as his ONLY position. He's the perfect sub to have because you can either use his impact in the row or give the back row a double boost and add serious size.

I hope the Maori selection has been factored into Carbery's continued selection, can't think of any good reason why he keeps his place after last week. I'm interested to see what selection we go for against the Maori now, presumably McCloskey has to play 13? So Harry at ten and Frawley at 12? Frawley should really be getting a test cap in this series IMO but I hope he doesn't get it by being pitched into a knackered team for the third test having played the Maori a few days earlier.

Cane is a shadow of his former self but that back row is seriously mobile now with an even bigger jackal threat. All three of them show serious fight in contact too and will be a handful, but fingers crossed that change and our focus on the set piece makes things swing our way.

Fakatava is an unbelievable impact player, he's lethal at spotting lazy defenders at the breakdown and breaking through. If they back him to come on early for Smith then I'd expect him to do some damage as we get tired.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Cheeses of Nazareth wrote: July 7th, 2022, 9:12 am Bench looks a bit stronger than last week. Great to have the sub front row back. Hopefully Healy is good to go. The only one i’m unsure about is Treadwell but we are quite ‘skinny’ in the second row at the moment. Not sure exactly what he brings. Is he particularly good in the set piece?

Would have liked to see Baird, Coombes and Larmour get a place on the bench for a bit more impact but Aki went well last week and it’s hard to drop one of Doris, VDF, POM and Conan at the moment as they’re going well as a unit.
I think the criticism of Conan's form has been exaggerated but I agree it's time that Coombes got a shot. Frawley and Larmour would give us a much stronger bench IMO.

The Maori games were always going to complicate these selections but even aside from us not picking a big enough squad we should really have pushed for that first Maori game to be the previous Saturday or Sunday to stop guys having to double up in such a short space of time or ruling themselves out of contention for the first and third tests.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Cheeses of Nazareth »

I thought Conan did well when he came on last week so happy enough to see him keep his place on the bench. POM played well and gives us a lineout option so can see why he’s preferred to start again given our set piece issues.

Farrell seems a bit hesitant to select Coombes. I wonder if he lacks a bit of pace for the gameplan we’re trying to implement.
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munster#1
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by munster#1 »

Ireland: Hugo Keenan; Mack Hansen, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton, Jamison Gibson-Park; Andrew Porter, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong; Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan; Peter O'Mahony, Josh van der Flier, Caelan Doris.

Replacements: Rob Herring, Cian Healy, Finlay Bealham, Kieran Treadwell, Jack Conan, Conor Murray, Joey Carbery, Bundee Aki.
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munster#1
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by munster#1 »

I personally would have liked to see some more rotation of the squad, but it is understandable that Ireland are looking to claim back some dignity after last weekends beating.

Herring to the bench offers good cover should the scrum start creaking early on.
I am one poster who has been critical of Conan’s form of late, but I do think that Dorris is fortunate to retain his place? as imo Conan did more during his time in the field than Dorris.

If Ireland can play with more cohesion between backs and forwards, defend the breakdown and steady the set piece, it will go a long way to providing us the chance to claim a historical victory in NZ.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Cheeses of Nazareth wrote: July 7th, 2022, 9:44 am I thought Conan did well when he came on last week so happy enough to see him keep his place on the bench. POM played well and gives us a lineout option so can see why he’s preferred to start again given our set piece issues.

Farrell seems a bit hesitant to select Coombes. I wonder if he lacks a bit of pace for the gameplan we’re trying to implement.
Coombes didn't light it up against the Maori but I agree I'm not sure Farrell is convinced by him. I had thought it was just the injuries/covid that had held him back but I'm doubting that now, although certainly his form isn't as good as last season.

One reason I'd have backed Coombes for this one is just that Conan has had such a long season. It's no wonder his form has dipped a little so use him a bit more sparingly and I bet his performances would be closer to his best.

There's always a point in a post Lions season where we realise the effect it had. Conan's form hasn't been as good in the second half of the season. Furlong has had a mixed season IMO, think it took him a while to get going and bar the Toulouse game has been fairly quiet in the last couple of months. Henderson has been riddled with injuries and don't think his season ever really got going. Beirne got his injury during the 6N and is only just back. Robbie had a couple of injuries and was struggling for form a little bit although looks sharp again now. I think we could look after those lads a little better to be honest. Furlong could have come off earlier last week, Conan doesn't need to be involved this week, Bundee could probably start etc
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by suisse »

Terrible team selection. 3 games in on this tour which was meant to show how much we would learn, and nothing will be learnt. The All Blacks are 10 point favorites with Sexton. His selection probably helps our chances of a shock win by a small bit but is that all that matters? A shock win? I've a feeling we'll lose this by a similar margin to test 1 so we limp on to test 3 with nothing gained. Good world
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by FLIP »

England only won their WC after being able to win away in NZ and Australia. Winning in NZ is important.

False narratives about other 10s not having enough game time and that it's only a friendly are just that - false.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by allezlesverres »

munster#1 wrote: July 7th, 2022, 9:56 am Ireland: Hugo Keenan; Mack Hansen, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton, Jamison Gibson-Park; Andrew Porter, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong; Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan; Peter O'Mahony, Josh van der Flier, Caelan Doris.

Replacements: Rob Herring, Cian Healy, Finlay Bealham, Kieran Treadwell, Jack Conan, Conor Murray, Joey Carbery, Bundee Aki.
Am surprised to see Sheehan and Beirne both start given the set piece troubles. I would have been tempted to start Herring at least and let Sheehan come on for impact later on. Herring undoubtedly a better scrummager and much better at the line out. Treadwell has been put on the bench for want of a better option but in fairness to him, if he is needed he is a stronger scrummager than Beirne. That's the only part of the game he does better mind you - I prefer Beirne in all other parts of the game. I think Conan is in a bit of a dip in form but I think he gets the nod over Coombes because his defensive work and positioning is better. Coombes can look a bit lost in defence and we can't have that versus the ABs.

Having Hansen and Lowe on the pitch together brings extra threat in attack, and some variety to the kicking game but you have to worry about the defence out wide - both have been exposed in big games (Lowe in fairness is improving on this front).
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by OTT »

Also there’s 7 players in the starting 15 who are players brought in by Farrell since he’s taken over. Porter (as a loose head), Sheehan, Doris, JGP, Lowe, Hansen and Keenan. Add in Beirne who didn’t start much under Joe and needs a game having only had 1 since March (last weekends).

The front 5 on the bench isn’t one that would fill you with confidence but I don’t think there’s much else.

What team would people pick that would help us be able to beat NZ/SA IN A potential RWC quarter-final?
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

suisse wrote: July 7th, 2022, 10:09 am Terrible team selection. 3 games in on this tour which was meant to show how much we would learn, and nothing will be learnt. The All Blacks are 10 point favorites with Sexton. His selection probably helps our chances of a shock win by a small bit but is that all that matters? A shock win? I've a feeling we'll lose this by a similar margin to test 1 so we limp on to test 3 with nothing gained. Good world
You could frame it like that.

Or you could equally say that having our best player and captain on the pitch from the start gives us a far better chance of winning an away test in NZ for the first time, especially considering the step down to the next option.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by TMC »

Cheeses of Nazareth wrote: July 7th, 2022, 9:12 am Bench looks a bit stronger than last week. Great to have the sub front row back. Hopefully Healy is good to go. The only one i’m unsure about is Treadwell but we are quite ‘skinny’ in the second row at the moment. Not sure exactly what he brings. Is he particularly good in the set piece?

Would have liked to see Baird, Coombes and Larmour get a place on the bench for a bit more impact but Aki went well last week and it’s hard to drop one of Doris, VDF, POM and Conan at the moment as they’re going well as a unit.
Agree re Treadwell, Baird would have been the better option. Coaches must see something in training, think Molony, Thornbury or Ahern if he was fit would have been better options to bring if we are looking to spread the net. No disrespect to AOC but Treadwell cant shift him from the Ulster team but he is good enough to bench for the national team? Doesn't stack up.
Coombes V Conan on recent form is for me a clear decision for Coombes. I think Coombes is absolutely worth a look at starting at 8 in a full strength side.
Larmour at least offers something different, Bundee being brought on meant shifting two others last weekend, fine against a weaker team, an unnecessary risk against New Zealand. Bundee for me starts or he doesn't make the 23, a bit like McCloskey. Earls is a significant omission for me, maybe the beginning of the end for one of our greatest wingers. Its a real pity Baloucoune injured for this tour, but expect to see him pressing for the first team come the world cup
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