OTT wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2022, 1:11 pm
This is a good thread, nothing to do with the lack of danger or how innocuous or borderline it was because they don’t come into it
Thread goes on to talk about the grounding as well. I thought it was fine too and that downward pressure wasn’t a thing anymore but doubted myself when I heard Dickson mention it. If Dickson got that wrong then that really is unacceptable on his part.
You’d have to wonder how the TMO missed some of the other incidents as well. That’s not sour grapes, we had a nightmare 15 minutes or so before half time and anything good we did in the second half should be seen through the prism of the game being well and truly over IMO so I don’t think there was any impact on the result.
If we can nick one of the remaining tests and keep the scoreline respectable in the other match, that's a good tour.
Our line-out isn't good enough, our individual athleticism isn't good enough, and our physicality isn't good enough. Only one of those three things is fixable, the other two come down to our small number of players and our quite 'undiverse' genetic playing pool.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OTT wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2022, 1:11 pm
This is a good thread, nothing to do with the lack of danger or how innocuous or borderline it was because they don’t come into it
Thread goes on to talk about the grounding as well. I thought it was fine too and that downward pressure wasn’t a thing anymore but doubted myself when I heard Dickson mention it. If Dickson got that wrong then that really is unacceptable on his part.
You’d have to wonder how the TMO missed some of the other incidents as well. That’s not sour grapes, we had a nightmare 15 minutes or so before half time and anything good we did in the second half should be seen through the prism of the game being well and truly over IMO so I don’t think there was any impact on the result.
You don't need downward pressure if you're holding the ball. You do need downward pressure if the ball is on the ground and you're touching it down with hands, arms or body.
I thought Joey dropped the ball at the last moment, unfortunately.
With Josh's one, Ioane knocked the ball out of his grasp, but it looked to me like it went backwards [from an Irish perspective] or at the very most downwards. A fumble isn't the same thing as a knock-on – a knock-on has to go towards the opponents' dead ball line. There's long been a triple standard in rugby where put-ins are never straight, lineouts are rarely straight, but a fumble that goes straight down is almost always judged as a knock-on.
In the JVDF/Ioane situation, it's play on – it's not a knock-on from Ioane and it's not a knock-on from JVDF. If you're the tackler and you rip or dislodge the ball forward, it's not a knock-on.
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2022, 1:22 pm
You’d have to wonder how the TMO missed some of the other incidents as well. That’s not sour grapes, we had a nightmare 15 minutes or so before half time and anything good we did in the second half should be seen through the prism of the game being well and truly over IMO so I don’t think there was any impact on the result.
The Scott Barrett shoulder to O'Mahony's head was bad and worth a straight red. Everyone likes the Barretts but Scott is a cheapshot merchant.
It's irritating that durtburds like Jonny Hill and Barrett can get away with the sort of foul play that we saw today. Ben Kay on this morning's efforts from Hill: https://twitter.com/BenKay5/status/1543186638460928000
hugonaut wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2022, 4:22 pmIf you're the tackler and you rip or dislodge the ball forward, it's not a knock-on.
I honestly have no idea of that right now. It's gone through 2 if not 3 interpretations in the last two RWC cycles.
Here's how it is – Black is the tackler, Green is the ball carrier. Green is playing -->, Black playing <--.
Black player rips the ball in the tackle, ball goes <-- [forward from Black, backwards from Green]: no offense, play on.
Black player rips the ball in the tackle, ball goes --> [backwards from Black, forward from Green]: knock on against Green.
It almost always goes to advantage, and scrum advantages don't last long, so you rarely see it whistled at all.
neiliog93 wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2022, 3:56 pm
If we can nick one of the remaining tests and keep the scoreline respectable in the other match, that's a good tour.
Our line-out isn't good enough, our individual athleticism isn't good enough, and our physicality isn't good enough. Only one of those three things is fixable, the other two come down to our small number of players and our quite 'undiverse' genetic playing pool.
Oh Jesus, this again. How come every time we loose a game we question our genetics?
OneLungDavy wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2022, 12:14 pm
How often do we see Ringrose make some howlers in big games! He had some good moments today but he needs to cut those silly errors out of his game.
I'd like to see Larmour given a go, Earls got a lot of ball today and took his try well, but I feel if Larmour got the same ball he would have done a lot more damage.
I'm impressed with Ryans physicality around the breakdown, some of his rucking was immense and it has become a consistent part of his game. He needs to sort out the lineout though.
Ringrose believed we were playing advantage as the ref had not waived it off, it was a travesty of a decision, Dickson was totally out of his depth and not supported by the video ref.
Leinsterimp wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2022, 9:47 am
That was an embarrassing attempt by Carbery
I can’t think of a worse bit of a player from an Ireland player in the 25 years I’ve been watching. Totally unacceptable and should mean he’s out of the test squad for the next two weeks. I’m stunned by that tbh.
Yeah, it was stunning. Your team-mates look at you differently after you chicken out of a tackle like that.
Haven't seen the game yet but from comments on here we had a good start, Sexton got injured and we fell apart.
In the beginning bringing Sexton, Carbery and HB on this tour was 3 mistakes or punts and none of them have come off.
Sexton and HB are unlikely to play again on this tour and we are now left with Carbery, Frawley and no cover.
At a very minimum we needed one OH who could last 80 minutes without sending shivers down our spines everything they were involved in play, be it attack or defence.
Carty, RB, Madigan and Burns probably fall into that category.
Note probably not definitely.
I'd far to see at least one of them play in the next two tests (it won't happen of course) the experience would be invaluable for them.
Because no matter what anyone thinks Sexton and Carbery aren't going to be up to it for RWC. HB neither based on his fitness history. Three punts that we know won't come off
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
Leinsterimp wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2022, 9:47 am
That was an embarrassing attempt by Carbery
I can’t think of a worse bit of a player from an Ireland player in the 25 years I’ve been watching. Totally unacceptable and should mean he’s out of the test squad for the next two weeks. I’m stunned by that tbh.
Yeah, it was stunning. Your team-mates look at you differently after you chicken out of a tackle like that.
Okay, he was mediocre - in Irish rugby we have to stop allowing guys in skill positions who can't execute the skills at the top level have a pass because they're good around the park. We will not win a world cup, 6 Nations, HECC or URC (not now anyways) with a sub 90% lineout. I agree that it's not all the hookers fault, there are a lot of moving parts to a lineout, but it's a consistant problem in Irish Rugby. Ireland haven't had a hooker who can throw well since Flannery, and Leinster - Shane Byrne, who retired over 15 years ago!?
Aaron Dundon?
You can say that again
... posted with phone via Chrome. I contend it's still true though.
Leinsterimp wrote: ↑July 2nd, 2022, 9:47 am
That was an embarrassing attempt by Carbery
I can’t think of a worse bit of a player from an Ireland player in the 25 years I’ve been watching. Totally unacceptable and should mean he’s out of the test squad for the next two weeks. I’m stunned by that tbh.
Yeah, it was stunning. Your team-mates look at you differently after you chicken out of a tackle like that.
Henshaw shot him a look alright.
EDIT: looks like the 8 got an assist from the ref who POM ran into. Might be what henshaw was looking at.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
I can’t think of a worse bit of a player from an Ireland player in the 25 years I’ve been watching. Totally unacceptable and should mean he’s out of the test squad for the next two weeks. I’m stunned by that tbh.
Yeah, it was stunning. Your team-mates look at you differently after you chicken out of a tackle like that.
Henshaw shot him a look alright.
EDIT: looks like the 8 got an assist from the ref who POM ran into. Might be what henshaw was looking at.
Dickson was very poor, as was the TMO. NZ took the risks in defence, obstructing JGP, flopping on ball in the tackle, side entry at breakdown, head / shoulder shots on our players. We took risks in attack, Ringrose flat pass to Lowe, Ringrose pop pass, JGP quick pen etc. Their risks came off, ours didn't, but Dickson missed or ignored so much.
As for Carbery. We should cut the cord now. He offers little or nothing as an Irish out-half, runs across, uses other people's space, no real acceleration and funks tackles. Nothing to commend his continued presence.
1. Carbery stays injury free and Munster start playing a more expansive game next season which doesn’t involve crashing it up with the 12/13
or
2. Harry Byrne gets a run of games and shows what he can do a regular basis.
Carbery has gone backwards in open play since joining Munster. A large part of that due to his injury profile but also due to a lack of a coherent backline attacking plan from the provincial coaches. A lot of his best performances came the first season after he left Leinster. Since then he’s had 2 players who excel at crashing it up outside him. A lot easier to ship it on rather than trying to put players into gaps which you’d tend to do with a traditional 13. In fairness he’s become a very good goal kicker in that time.
Byrne has a great advantage of playing alongside a large cohort of Ireland’s current starting 15. If he can stay fit and get some games in our strongest team I’ll reckon he’ll put his hand up. The bar is so low at the moment, all he has to do is keep it simple and avoid forcing anything for now. Injuries are the big concern with him though.
Irelands attacking shape is hugely dependent on Sexton and Leinsters attack. Byrne has the chance to run that shape week in week out in training. He probably dodged a bullet by not starting that Māori game but he needs to start getting himself on the pitch.
1. Carbery stays injury free and Munster start playing a more expansive game next season which doesn’t involve crashing it up with the 12/13
or
2. Harry Byrne gets a run of games and shows what he can do a regular basis.
Carbery has gone backwards in open play since joining Munster. A large part of that due to his injury profile but also due to a lack of a coherent backline attacking plan from the provincial coaches. A lot of his best performances came the first season after he left Leinster. Since then he’s had 2 players who excel at crashing it up outside him. A lot easier to ship it on rather than trying to put players into gaps which you’d tend to do with a traditional 13. In fairness he’s become a very good goal kicker in that time.
Byrne has a great advantage of playing alongside a large cohort of Ireland’s current starting 15. If he can stay fit and get some games in our strongest team I’ll reckon he’ll put his hand up. The bar is so low at the moment, all he has to do is keep it simple and avoid forcing anything for now. Injuries are the big concern with him though.
Irelands attacking shape is hugely dependent on Sexton and Leinsters attack. Byrne has the chance to run that shape week in week out in training. He probably dodged a bullet by not starting that Māori game but he needs to start getting himself on the pitch.
Yep, nail on head.
If Harry or indeed Frawley can get a run of games at 10 in blue either could find themselves in a RWC 23.
The options beside them are so poor (33 year old Ian Madigan ffs ) then it won't take much to get in there.
We know Carty, Ross, Burns just aren't good enough at that level.
... posted with phone via Chrome. I contend it's still true though.
) then it won't take much to get in there.