Tour to NZ 2022

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sunshiner1
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by sunshiner1 »

by hugonaut

Munster schools and clubs tend to put their best backrow at No8, simple as that. It means they get the ball in their hands a lot.

At agegrade level, O'Mahony was a No8 [2009 U20s], so was O'Donoghue [2014 U20s], so was Kelvin Browne [2016 U20s], Coombes [at least one game as a No8 for the 2017 U20s, although he also played No4 and No6], so was O'Sullivan [2018 U20s], so was Hodnett [2019 U20s], so was Kendellen [2021 U20s], so was Okeke [also one game at No8 for the 2021 U20s].

It's quite difficult to think of a Irish U20 backrow from Munster who didn't play No8, i.e. an openside or blindside, at agegrade level. I'll turn this one over to Mildly/Cormac/Xanthippe ...
Interesting. I can see pros and cons in doing this but overall it strikes me as been slightly short sighted in the end with more cons than pros. I will defer to the experts though
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ronk
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

Tommy O'Donnell?
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the spoofer
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by the spoofer »

Listened to the Mole's podcast on the squad for NZ. No Molony love at all. Don't really understand why not.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

A lot of the All Blacks are in unbelievable form again. I’m thinking of Clarke and Rieko Ioane in particular but there are loads of them all over the park and there’s depth everywhere with the possible exception of prop.

Tricky to get selection right for the short and medium term is going to be really difficult. I’d been very much of a mind to throw loads of the young lads in against the Maori but watching some of these games is making me have flashbacks to 60-0.
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neiliog93
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by neiliog93 »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: May 7th, 2022, 11:34 am A lot of the All Blacks are in unbelievable form again. I’m thinking of Clarke and Rieko Ioane in particular but there are loads of them all over the park and there’s depth everywhere with the possible exception of prop.

Tricky to get selection right for the short and medium term is going to be really difficult. I’d been very much of a mind to throw loads of the young lads in against the Maori but watching some of these games is making me have flashbacks to 60-0.
We'll likely be able to outmuscle them up front and deny their backs a solid platform. Now, they can still score quite prolifically living off scraps, but the pattern of games on the tour could be a bit like the ones in 2018 and 2021 (i.e. Ireland dominate physically but still only win narrowly on the scoreboard because All Black class means they score every time they have an opportunity).
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ruckedtobits
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Ruckedtobits »

As the 2021-22 season accelerates to a conclusion, the opportunities to emerge as a "bolter" for the July Tour to NZ become fewer. Connacht are the only Irish Province who don't have competitive ambitions remaining and this may stifle the chances of their fast improving youngsters. However, two young forwards may already have done enough to attract Andy Farrell's attention.

Matthew Burke (5'10" & 115kg) has been the most improved LHP in Ireland over the season. Whether that improvement is enough to secure a place in this Squad remains to be seen, but LHP is certainly a position where we clearly need to identify a future international.

Cian Prendergast (6'5" &105kg) has probably stronger credentials at this point to travel south this summer. A string of outstanding displays in a disappointing Connacht season saw him emerge as the Province's Young Player of the Year and his line-out work and aggressive ball carrying are the hallmark attributes of this young player, albeit in probably the most competitive area of the Squad.

Munster offer two young forwards for close consideration. Academy player Alex Kendellan (6'2" & 105kg) topped off an ever improving Season with an outstanding quarter-final display against Toulouse. A proven U.20 star with excellent back-row essentials, he could prove the perfect back-up to Josh Van der Flier.

Thomas Ahern (6'9" & 115kg) could prove the solution in the other problem area in the Irish pack. If LHP is the area of greatest vulnerability, the depth of cover at second-row is almost as bare. Ahern has been selected sparingly by JVG in big games, but this young man has not disappointed in any of his cameos and this Tour could offer the opportunity for Farrell to assess his potential for RWC2023 in sixteen months time.

Leinster may have two candidates for a second-row "bolter" selection. Ross Moloney (6'6" & 115kg) & Joe McCarthy (6'6" & 120 kg) have contrasting CV's. Moloney has just turned 28 whilst McCarthy had his 21st b'day earlier this year. Moloney has developed in the shadow of Dev Toner and James Ryan over the past decade in Leinster but has already accumulated 132 caps since debut. McCarthy has emerged dramatically this Season and his abrasive, aggressive performances have marked him as having the DNA of an international second-row. Very hard to call it between them at present but very unlikely that both will travel south this summer.

Potential "bolters" among the backs are less likely as we have seen a number of new caps selected across the backline in the past 18 months. Ciaran Frawley (6'3" & 93kg) could be a new face not least because of his ability to play No 10 & 12 or 13. The Australian-born Leinsterman would be a real addition to Farrell's Squad but he's still an outside bet for selection.

There are a limited number of chances left for players to put their hands up. However, Andy Farrell and his fellow Coaches must be very pleased at some of the displays to date from Ireland's younger contenders, although to be fair to Farrell et al, most of those mentioned above have already been included in an Irish Training Squad.
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ronk
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

Ulster don't exist do they. ;)

McIlroy is one to watch.
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ronk
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

In a RWC context Molony's age isn't an issue. He's at his peak. I think you bring Molony this summer and give McCarthy a running start at next season. I think that gives both the best chance of being there for the RWC.

Molony is ahead now, trust that but give McCarthy a chance to bolt. Lock is shallow for Ireland but the age profile of the depth chart is good. So we need options now.

There's the tighthead lock aspect, but Schmidt made that call with Kleyn over Toner and I think it's well accepted that that was a mistake.
enby
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by enby »

Frawley looked so comfortable yesterday although admittedly the match was pretty much won by the time he came on. He has that rare quality of seeming to have more time when he receives the ball ( like John Giles in football and Ollie Campbell ) and his defence is great too. I'd pick him ahead of Joey on current form but that ain't gonna happen
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ronk
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

enby wrote: May 15th, 2022, 10:06 am Frawley looked so comfortable yesterday although admittedly the match was pretty much won by the time he came on. He has that rare quality of seeming to have more time when he receives the ball ( like John Giles in football and Ollie Campbell ) and his defence is great too. I'd pick him ahead of Joey on current form but that ain't gonna happen
As a 12 Frawley doesn't have any issues, same for the 23 jersey. Even though he got his start at 10 recently and looked good, he's still not trusted as an option at 22.

It's not unreasonable with ByrneX2 playing well. But the selection priority has been to have a specialist 10 over someone who can cover 10 at 22. Frawley can't compete directly with Carbery (& Lowry) until he's proven himself for the 22 jersey. And Carbery has been switching to 15 so versatility won't get Frawley ahead.

There's nothing stopping Carbery at 22 and Frawley at 23 depending on Aki etc. And Frawley's best chance of being outhalf cover is to start at 12 with Carbery and no cover on the bench. Because that would let Ireland bring 2 specialist outhalves to the RWC and still have cover for every game. Lowry does that too.
sunshiner1
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by sunshiner1 »

All you guys talking about second rows and no love for Gavin Thornbury
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

enby wrote: May 15th, 2022, 10:06 am Frawley looked so comfortable yesterday although admittedly the match was pretty much won by the time he came on. He has that rare quality of seeming to have more time when he receives the ball ( like John Giles in football and Ollie Campbell ) and his defence is great too. I'd pick him ahead of Joey on current form but that ain't gonna happen
I loved that he didn't just slot in and play it safe, he really wanted to make an impact and I think his first involvement was to race off the line and hammer into them with a big hit. Also love that the coaches backed him. Maybe Robbie was carrying something but even if he was I'm sure he could have played on and there was plenty of time left.
Ruckedtobits
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Frawley' biggest problem is nothing to do with his talent. For so long as the bias is to go 6/2 on the bench, his chances of a cap are reduced by 12.5% each game.

McElroy's chances are a function of the fitness & form of Stockdale, Larmour, Earls, Zebo and a couple of others. No disrespect to his talent but there's a long queue ahead of him.

Thornbury arguably had his chances against Leinster X 2 and didn't excel. He was one of my hopes back in September but 2021-22 hasn't been kind to him.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Ruckedtobits wrote: May 15th, 2022, 2:04 pm Frawley' biggest problem is nothing to do with his talent. For so long as the bias is to go 6/2 on the bench, his chances of a cap are reduced by 12.5% each game.

McElroy's chances are a function of the fitness & form of Stockdale, Larmour, Earls, Zebo and a couple of others. No disrespect to his talent but there's a long queue ahead of him.

Thornbury arguably had his chances against Leinster X 2 and didn't excel. He was one of my hopes back in September but 2021-22 hasn't been kind to him.

Your Frawley point is true for the moment but could change instantly if he played a small bit more at 10 or 15. He has the potential to be the perfect option in a 6-2 split. I’d even say that one good sub performance at ten in a big game could see him catapulted into being third choice for Ireland with his versatility in mind.
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hugonaut
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by hugonaut »

sunshiner1 wrote: May 15th, 2022, 12:09 pm All you guys talking about second rows and no love for Gavin Thornbury
205 minutes of rugby this season!
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Morf
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Morf »

Ruckedtobits wrote: May 15th, 2022, 2:04 pm Frawley' biggest problem is nothing to do with his talent. For so long as the bias is to go 6/2 on the bench, his chances of a cap are reduced by 12.5% each game.
Unfortunately Frawley's biggest problem is running into things face-first and damaging said face in the action. He needs to reduce this occurrence to have an Ireland career.
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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Morf wrote: May 16th, 2022, 4:56 am
Ruckedtobits wrote: May 15th, 2022, 2:04 pm Frawley' biggest problem is nothing to do with his talent. For so long as the bias is to go 6/2 on the bench, his chances of a cap are reduced by 12.5% each game.
Unfortunately Frawley's biggest problem is running into things face-first and damaging said face in the action. He needs to reduce this occurrence to have an Ireland career.
Worked OK for BOD
sunshiner1
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by sunshiner1 »

by Oldschoolsocks

Unfortunately Frawley's biggest problem is running into things face-first and damaging said face in the action. He needs to reduce this occurrence to have an Ireland career.
Worked OK for BOD
Paddy Wallace made a career out of it!
neill_m
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by neill_m »

Two games v Maori confirmed.

Wednesday June 29th and Tuesday July 12th, both 8:05am KO (Irish Time).

Sky Sports showing all 5 games in UK/Ireland.
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Morf
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Morf »

Do sky have any rugby presenting staff left or will they just take a feed with commentary/half time discussion direct from Sky NZ?
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