2021 Lions

Forum for discussion of the British and Irish Lions trip to South Africa in 2009

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
fourthirtythree
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9705
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:33 pm
Location: Eight miles high

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by fourthirtythree »

hugonaut wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:07 am Lions captain Alun Wyn Jones feels hand of history on his shoulder

Wales’s indomitable talisman is keenly aware of the gravity of the honour bestowed on him by Warren Gatland

Scratch away the gloss they have slapped across the British & Irish Lions and there is a single, simple beautiful idea underneath. An idea protected by a set of values that have kept it alive for 133 years and still do now, even when, like so much else about what makes the game great, it is under threat from a corporate sports culture which only worries about the best way to package, present, and sell it – another product in an already overcrowded marketplace. Those values persist because the men who hold them pass them on from one generation to the next. Men such as Warren Gatland and his captain, Alun Wyn Jones.

[source: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... s-shoulder ]

You have to laugh – it's just so overblown! The veneration. The pomposity. The belief in older, more sacred truths etc.

The Lions is basically playing for the seniors when you're in 4th year: it makes you feel like a big deal, you get a new set of mates who are also big deals, and you get gear that none of your team-mates on the U16s have. You also get injured.
The absolutely gobsmacked shock and awe at Sinckler not playing in the Graunianad is also way over the top.
Datta: what have we given?
My friend, blood shaking my heart
The awful daring of a moment's surrender
Which an age of prudence can never retract
What the thunder said to Brian Lenihan
User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Rhys Ruddock
Posts: 2713
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 10:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

munster#1 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:35 am Some really odd calls in that squad.
I am delighted for Conan, he has had an Alan Quinlanesque career to date, and all fit may not even make the Leinster squad for the big games.
These are the type of selections which I really like.

I think 8 Irish players is about right for where that Irish team is right now, hard to grumble too much, but I really had expected Stander to get in, and for the sake of nostalgia Earls too.

Is this the first time in the Pro era that no Leinster (produced, as he had multiple caps before joining Leinster) back has made the first draft?

With a fair bit of rugby yet to play, there will be heartbreak for a few players, and great joy for others, as history has shown us that it is unlikely that all players selected will travel.
Is it a surprise that Lions Captain* Peter O’Mahony wasn’t selected?
JB1973
Mullet
Posts: 1859
Joined: June 7th, 2013, 10:30 am

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

Lock9541 wrote: May 6th, 2021, 4:15 pm How did Slade not get it? Most people had him down to start. Such a strange selection.
Not a gatland type player is he?

I can't see him playing a converted fly half at 13 against the bok centres

Looking at the squad when it comes to the centre position it's henshaw plus 1 which could give aki a real boost, the alternatives are farrel at 12 and henshaw 13 or henshaw 12 and harris 13

Personally I rate huw jones as the best Scottish centre but isn't harris the Scottish defence captain?

Daly is an interesting pick, with his versatility he could well be a bench option, he has a giant boot could be handy out in sa for long distance kicks at goal
JB1973
Mullet
Posts: 1859
Joined: June 7th, 2013, 10:30 am

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

munster#1 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:35 am Some really odd calls in that squad.
I am delighted for Conan, he has had an Alan Quinlanesque career to date, and all fit may not even make the Leinster squad for the big games.
These are the type of selections which I really like.

I think 8 Irish players is about right for where that Irish team is right now, hard to grumble too much, but I really had expected Stander to get in, and for the sake of nostalgia Earls too.

Is this the first time in the Pro era that no Leinster (produced, as he had multiple caps before joining Leinster) back has made the first draft?

With a fair bit of rugby yet to play, there will be heartbreak for a few players, and great joy for others, as history has shown us that it is unlikely that all players selected will travel.
I thought stander would go , seems made for gatland an abrasive type can cover 6 and 8

Earls had no chance, the opposite of what gatland looks for in his back 3, once he was announced as coach that was it for earls

The welsh media especially the Cardiff based ones are upset about naividi being left out considering he covers 6 7 and 8 I am surprised he didn't go in all honesty but it's not a huge shock .Also the likes of francis, t Williams and j davies are also being mentioned as being overlooked. However J Davies has been struggling all season, T Williams can't tackle , I feel a bit for francis solid scrummager and I'd have taken him ahead of the Scottish tight head but I would have taken synkler ahead of them both.

I would wager all of them are on a reserve list and one or two will end up going at some stage
Last edited by JB1973 on May 7th, 2021, 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
hugonaut
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5665
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 7:44 pm

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by hugonaut »

JB1973 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 10:13 am
munster#1 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:35 am Some really odd calls in that squad.
I am delighted for Conan, he has had an Alan Quinlanesque career to date, and all fit may not even make the Leinster squad for the big games.
These are the type of selections which I really like.

I think 8 Irish players is about right for where that Irish team is right now, hard to grumble too much, but I really had expected Stander to get in, and for the sake of nostalgia Earls too.

Is this the first time in the Pro era that no Leinster (produced, as he had multiple caps before joining Leinster) back has made the first draft?

With a fair bit of rugby yet to play, there will be heartbreak for a few players, and great joy for others, as history has shown us that it is unlikely that all players selected will travel.
I thought stander would go , seems made for gatland an abrasive type can cover 6 and 8

Earls had no chance, the opposite of what gatland looks for in his back 3, once he was announced as coach that was it for earls

The welsh media especially the Cardiff based ones are upset about naividi being left out considering he covers 6 7 and 8 I am surprised he didn't go in all honesty but it's not a huge shock .Also the likes of francis, t Williams and j davies are also being mentioned as being overlooked. However J Davies has been struggling all season, T Williams can't tackle , I feel a bit for francis solid scrimmage and I'd have taken him ahead of the Scottish tight head but I would have taken synkler ahead of them both.

I would wager all of them are on a reserve list and one or two will end up going at some stage
I really like Navidi as a player, but he is undersized for any position in the backrow bar openside, and openside is stacked with Tipuric, Curry and Watson.

It seems to me that Gatland has selected Beirne and Lawes as his blindsides and that he'll be playing with three locks rather than two opensides. In fairness, I could be miles off ... I was surprised by a lot of selections in the squad.
JB1973
Mullet
Posts: 1859
Joined: June 7th, 2013, 10:30 am

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

hugonaut wrote: May 7th, 2021, 11:02 am
JB1973 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 10:13 am
munster#1 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:35 am Some really odd calls in that squad.
I am delighted for Conan, he has had an Alan Quinlanesque career to date, and all fit may not even make the Leinster squad for the big games.
These are the type of selections which I really like.

I think 8 Irish players is about right for where that Irish team is right now, hard to grumble too much, but I really had expected Stander to get in, and for the sake of nostalgia Earls too.

Is this the first time in the Pro era that no Leinster (produced, as he had multiple caps before joining Leinster) back has made the first draft?

With a fair bit of rugby yet to play, there will be heartbreak for a few players, and great joy for others, as history has shown us that it is unlikely that all players selected will travel.
I thought stander would go , seems made for gatland an abrasive type can cover 6 and 8

Earls had no chance, the opposite of what gatland looks for in his back 3, once he was announced as coach that was it for earls

The welsh media especially the Cardiff based ones are upset about naividi being left out considering he covers 6 7 and 8 I am surprised he didn't go in all honesty but it's not a huge shock .Also the likes of francis, t Williams and j davies are also being mentioned as being overlooked. However J Davies has been struggling all season, T Williams can't tackle , I feel a bit for francis solid scrimmage and I'd have taken him ahead of the Scottish tight head but I would have taken synkler ahead of them both.

I would wager all of them are on a reserve list and one or two will end up going at some stage
I really like Navidi as a player, but he is undersized for any position in the backrow bar openside, and openside is stacked with Tipuric, Curry and Watson.

It seems to me that Gatland has selected Beirne and Lawes as his blindsides and that he'll be playing with three locks rather than two opensides. In fairness, I could be miles off ... I was surprised by a lot of selections in the squad.
I would agree, wouldn't shock me if by the final test the back 5 is itoje laws beirne curry and toby f
User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4710
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by munster#1 »

Oldschoolsocks wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:39 am
munster#1 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:35 am Some really odd calls in that squad.
I am delighted for Conan, he has had an Alan Quinlanesque career to date, and all fit may not even make the Leinster squad for the big games.
These are the type of selections which I really like.

I think 8 Irish players is about right for where that Irish team is right now, hard to grumble too much, but I really had expected Stander to get in, and for the sake of nostalgia Earls too.

Is this the first time in the Pro era that no Leinster (produced, as he had multiple caps before joining Leinster) back has made the first draft?

With a fair bit of rugby yet to play, there will be heartbreak for a few players, and great joy for others, as history has shown us that it is unlikely that all players selected will travel.
Is it a surprise that Lions Captain* Peter O’Mahony wasn’t selected?
Former Lions captain. Given his lack of rugby I would have been surprised if he did travel.

I take it that you are surprised that he wasn’t selected, as it is an odd question?
SoupyNorman
Beginner
Posts: 30
Joined: September 4th, 2018, 3:20 pm

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by SoupyNorman »

munster#1 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:35 am Is this the first time in the Pro era that no Leinster (produced, as he had multiple caps before joining Leinster) back has made the first draft?
1997 there were no Irish backs at all. Then O'Driscoll and Sexton can cover you for the other five tours since.
OTT
Mullet
Posts: 1651
Joined: February 2nd, 2012, 4:19 pm
Location: Blackrock

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by OTT »

munster#1 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:35 am
Is this the first time in the Pro era that no Leinster (produced, as he had multiple caps before joining Leinster) back has made the first draft?
Strange alright, like Munster forwards.

Open goal...

Just jest.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

~The Late Great Mick English
User avatar
hugonaut
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5665
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 7:44 pm

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by hugonaut »

JB1973 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 11:07 am I would agree, wouldn't shock me if by the final test the back 5 is itoje laws beirne curry and toby f
I'm still surprised that he left out Billy Vunipola. He's 28, has had very few injuries this season and to be franks has been a world class player [which I would look at as being in top three in the world in his position] for most of the last five years.
User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 11244
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by ronk »

Year that's in it we might have seen a few people opt out (quietly).

But it could be Gatland being Gatland and he just likes the form players. I'm still surprised that Porter and Conan (provincial backups, on paper) both got picked over superstar ex-Lions at the peak of their career.
OTT
Mullet
Posts: 1651
Joined: February 2nd, 2012, 4:19 pm
Location: Blackrock

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by OTT »

Did Billy not pull out of the last tour with some injury he got surgery for but he could have played on with and got it done after the Lions? Might be off on my recollection. But I’d agree out of all the Saracens players he’s the one you might have taken the chance on getting fit because he’s the best in his position in the world when he’s fit.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

~The Late Great Mick English
JB1973
Mullet
Posts: 1859
Joined: June 7th, 2013, 10:30 am

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

OTT wrote: May 7th, 2021, 1:01 pm Did Billy not pull out of the last tour with some injury he got surgery for but he could have played on with and got it done after the Lions? Might be off on my recollection. But I’d agree out of all the Saracens players he’s the one you might have taken the chance on getting fit because he’s the best in his position in the world when he’s fit.
he pulled out at the last minute , gats prob been waiting for 4 years to leave him out :lol: :lol:
Lock9541
Bookworm
Posts: 207
Joined: January 31st, 2021, 9:49 pm

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by Lock9541 »

JB1973 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 1:48 pm
OTT wrote: May 7th, 2021, 1:01 pm Did Billy not pull out of the last tour with some injury he got surgery for but he could have played on with and got it done after the Lions? Might be off on my recollection. But I’d agree out of all the Saracens players he’s the one you might have taken the chance on getting fit because he’s the best in his position in the world when he’s fit.
he pulled out at the last minute , gats prob been waiting for 4 years to leave him out :lol: :lol:
Who replaced him?
User avatar
Xanthippe
Seán Cronin
Posts: 3897
Joined: September 5th, 2008, 6:48 pm

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by Xanthippe »

Lock9541 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 1:49 pm
JB1973 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 1:48 pm
OTT wrote: May 7th, 2021, 1:01 pm Did Billy not pull out of the last tour with some injury he got surgery for but he could have played on with and got it done after the Lions? Might be off on my recollection. But I’d agree out of all the Saracens players he’s the one you might have taken the chance on getting fit because he’s the best in his position in the world when he’s fit.
he pulled out at the last minute , gats prob been waiting for 4 years to leave him out :lol: :lol:
Who replaced him?
James Haskell
#LiveLifeLoveLeinster

#BeSeenBeHeardBeBlueBELIEVE



I'm a Book Mark and damn proud of it. Storm 1:08 forever
User avatar
CiaranIrl
Seán Cronin
Posts: 3531
Joined: April 27th, 2009, 11:23 am
Location: Dun Laoghaire

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by CiaranIrl »

You could make a serious team out of players not going, couldn't you? Something like Healy, Kelleher, Sinkler, Gray, Ryan, Underhill, Navidi, Vunipola, Youngs, Sexton, May, Slade, Ringrose, Earls, Keenan
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”
User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Rhys Ruddock
Posts: 2713
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 10:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

munster#1 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 11:16 am
Oldschoolsocks wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:39 am
munster#1 wrote: May 7th, 2021, 9:35 am Some really odd calls in that squad.
I am delighted for Conan, he has had an Alan Quinlanesque career to date, and all fit may not even make the Leinster squad for the big games.
These are the type of selections which I really like.

I think 8 Irish players is about right for where that Irish team is right now, hard to grumble too much, but I really had expected Stander to get in, and for the sake of nostalgia Earls too.

Is this the first time in the Pro era that no Leinster (produced, as he had multiple caps before joining Leinster) back has made the first draft?

With a fair bit of rugby yet to play, there will be heartbreak for a few players, and great joy for others, as history has shown us that it is unlikely that all players selected will travel.
Is it a surprise that Lions Captain* Peter O’Mahony wasn’t selected?
Former Lions captain. Given his lack of rugby I would have been surprised if he did travel.

I take it that you are surprised that he wasn’t selected, as it is an odd question?
nope, I thought that would have fallen into your list of odd decisions
User avatar
hugonaut
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5665
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 7:44 pm

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by hugonaut »

CiaranIrl wrote: May 7th, 2021, 2:35 pm You could make a serious team out of players not going, couldn't you? Something like Healy, Kelleher, Sinkler, Gray, Ryan, Underhill, Navidi, Vunipola, Youngs, Sexton, May, Slade, Ringrose, Earls, Keenan
Jesus, Johnny May isn't going either ... somehow that got past me. He has been excellent for three or four years.
Fan with smartphone
Graduate
Posts: 662
Joined: May 18th, 2016, 7:54 pm

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by Fan with smartphone »

ronk wrote: May 7th, 2021, 12:31 am Jags won the draft. Highest rated player in 10 years is available and they get him. Pat's 2nd. They get a guy who was expected to be 3rd but fell to 15 and is is exactly what they need.

Leinster did great. Conan and Porter picked (good for them and no more Porter to loosehead nonsense). Guys with injury concerns left out so no Sexton, Ryan, Doris or Ringrose.
Like the old line about the consequences of the French Revolution - it’s too soon to tell! An argument made to me says the chiefs win every draft until somebody drafts a player who winds up to be better than mahomes. I dunno! 🤷‍♂️
User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 11244
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: 2021 Lions

Post by ronk »

In that case Chicago won because they get a chance to be remembered for something other than for picking Trubisky ahead of Mahomes.

Gatland left the Irish guys who've been struggling with injury and brought players who are 100%

Kinda happy about that.
Post Reply