2021 Lions

[Flash Gordon]

Annoyed and frustrated that we managed to lose that test, liam blew a simple two on one, curry cost us another driving line out try and neither sub prop could scrimmage

I know it's not the done thing but we should have played furlong for the full 80 on Saturday

Worrying stat for me we scored two trys in 3 tests both from driving line outs, I know the boks have a good defence but that says a lot about the lions back play and tactical approach to the game

I do hope world rugby come down hard on Erasmus , he is an excellent coach but his video rant has no place in rugby

I also think it's time the lions looked for a new head coach for the next series, your man Cullen and the Exeter guy Baxter would be well in the frame a lot can happen in 4 years!

Yep, think that's fair. The Lions went 3 tests without a back scoring a try, possibly Gatland's biggest selection error was picking Townsend.

The Lions had more than enough opportunities to win the series but basically blew it. The chances you mention but also the defence for the Kolbe try. To be perfectly honest, we were a little bit lucky that Erasmus played the game plan he did because throughout the series on the rare occasions the Boks didn't leather the ball their backs looked very very dangerous,

For those questioning the series, we needed the money and for the players the Lions is the pinnacle for many of them, yes it wasn't the same without the fans but during these times we have to make the best of what we have and getting the series done in the current environment was a monumental achievement.

Agree on Erasmus, he has crossed lines on this tour fundamentally challenging the ethics of the game.

As others have said, Leinster's players we excellent. From an Irish point of view, very disappointed that Hendo never got a chance, i think he's a better player than AWJ to be perfectly honest.

[JB1973]

I think AWJ was in for his leadership as much as anything else (ironic considering we failed to take the points when we should have on the weekend)

If Henderson Lawes or Beard had been selected ahead of him I would have had no issues, from a welsh view point I think Adams should have started the tests but not really a great deal else to moan about LRZ is probably still a year away from being a test lion and Naividi was always up against it being called up late to the tour.

Toby F was not at the races all tour and Davies at 9 never really got going either, Russell showed a lot more in attack than on Saturday either Biggar or Farrell did during the tests.

Of the welsh players on tour I think Adams, Beard , Owens and Wyn Jones have come home with their reputations enhanced while the rest were either par of if I'm honest slightly below

Hard to pick out a stand out player for man of the series for the lions I don't think anyone really excelled for all 3 games, Henshaw was probably our best player over the series

[ronk]

I think AWJ played a lot for someone his age coming off an injury in a position stocked with talent. Knowing that he was going up against the bomb squad who were going to rotate to stay fresh was more pressure.

I think playing him was the right call, but he should have been rotated, e.g. by subbing for the 2nd test.

[Flash Gordon]

I think AWJ played a lot for someone his age coming off an injury in a position stocked with talent. Knowing that he was going up against the bomb squad who were going to rotate to stay fresh was more pressure.

I think playing him was the right call, but he should have been rotated, e.g. by subbing for the 2nd test.

Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for him and he's been a world class player over the years. Your point on rotation is well made.

[Flash Gordon]

I think AWJ was in for his leadership as much as anything else (ironic considering we failed to take the points when we should have on the weekend)

If Henderson Lawes or Beard had been selected ahead of him I would have had no issues, from a welsh view point I think Adams should have started the tests but not really a great deal else to moan about LRZ is probably still a year away from being a test lion and Naividi was always up against it being called up late to the tour.

Toby F was not at the races all tour and Davies at 9 never really got going either, Russell showed a lot more in attack than on Saturday either Biggar or Farrell did during the tests.

Of the welsh players on tour I think Adams, Beard , Owens and Wyn Jones have come home with their reputations enhanced while the rest were either par of if I'm honest slightly below

Hard to pick out a stand out player for man of the series for the lions I don't think anyone really excelled for all 3 games, Henshaw was probably our best player over the series

LRZ is a bit of a moot point really given that the ball never came down the backline - can't see him being worse than Van Der Merwe to be honest. 3 tests and no tries for the backs is a really really poor return and they need to look at why that happened. The backs looked badly coached and unstructured. The Lions had enough ball last weekend to win the game but blew it. In terms of players who did well, thought the Leinster 3 were all very good Conan, Henshaw and Furlong. I thought Itoje was outstanding particularly given what he was up against. Not sure I'd pay money to watch the Boks week in week out, turgid stuff at times.

[ronk]

I saw a stat that in the first 2 tests vdM chased 11 contestable kicks and SA didn't catch any of them. I don't think his place was under threat at all.

[riocard911]

Here's an observation possibly worth considering. If I compare how last weekend the BIL played vs the Boks and NZ vs Oz, the biggest difference that struck me was the quality of the passing. Aaron Smith and his team mates more often than not pass the ball to optimum space for the receiver - at upper stomach height and a little bit in front, so the player can run onto it at speed and take possession of the ball with minimum effort. Ali Price's passes and those of his team mates were - it looked to me - often too high and to the player where he was positioned and not to the space he was heading towards. As a result the Lions' receivers often had to slow their charge or even stop to receive the ball. And even then they had to reach up to physically bring the ball under their control, which was heading for their chest/neck area. And they drone on about "fine margins"............

[JB1973]

All our 9's were poor tbh, as you point out none of them are great passers and only Davies offers a real running threat and he was poor all tour

The ambition in the ab vs oz game was far higher from both sides , and the ball in play time must have been a lot higher than any of the 3 liosn vs boks tests

It will be interesting to see how the ab's and the aussies do the next time they face the boks, I would back the kiwis to beat them and not get caught up in an "arm wrestle" Imp not sure the aussies have the muscle to stand up to the boks physical power though

[wixfjord]

There is a real lack of quality 9s in the world at the moment.

You've Smith, Faf & Dupont at the elite level and it's pretty slim pickings if you go down further, particularly in the NH.

[cormac]

All our 9's were poor tbh, as you point out none of them are great passers and only Davies offers a real running threat and he was poor all tour

The ambition in the ab vs oz game was far higher from both sides , and the ball in play time must have been a lot higher than any of the 3 liosn vs boks tests

It will be interesting to see how the ab's and the aussies do the next time they face the boks, I would back the kiwis to beat them and not get caught up in an "arm wrestle" Imp not sure the aussies have the muscle to stand up to the boks physical power though

Ball in play time in all three Lions tests was very low, culminating in a barely credible 26m22 secs in the third test, down from 30m45secs (1st test) and 30m29secs (2nd test). The average in the 2019 RWC was 35m41secs and 38m3secs in this season's 6N.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/sta ... 21088?s=20

[ronk]

Games took longer and had less rugby played.

[fourthirtythree]

Games took longer and had less rugby played.

It was peak ROG's KBA philosophy: Kick Ball Always.

If they actually cared about concussion they wouldn't be encouraging this by penalising teams with the ball more than those without.

[Dexter]

When the SH opted for the tap pen and was called back for it being taken from the wrong place, they're allowed change their mind and kick instead??
Genuine question as I've no idea.

Although referees regularly call back players for taking a tap penalty from the wrong place, the actual sanction in law is a scrum to the opposition. I can find no record of this Law being altered, either specifically or by "new interpretation".

This decision, following on the penalisation of the Lions' front-row at an attacking scrum, was a further example of the arbitrary nature of key decisions throughout this Series.

Thanks that's good info. I agree it's mad the way officiating can totally change a game. I thought Raynal was actually pretty good, but there seems to be big problems with the game at the highest levels, how it's officiated and the way the laws (or how they're being applied) are negatively affecting the game.

[ronk]

Every game that's close enough (or was at some point during it) is decided by the referee, or the bounce of a ball or any other marginal event.

The problem is focusing discourse so we only take about a few of many things that could have gone either way.

[Flash Gordon]

When the SH opted for the tap pen and was called back for it being taken from the wrong place, they're allowed change their mind and kick instead??
Genuine question as I've no idea.

Although referees regularly call back players for taking a tap penalty from the wrong place, the actual sanction in law is a scrum to the opposition. I can find no record of this Law being altered, either specifically or by "new interpretation".

This decision, following on the penalisation of the Lions' front-row at an attacking scrum, was a further example of the arbitrary nature of key decisions throughout this Series.

Thanks that's good info. I agree it's mad the way officiating can totally change a game. I thought Raynal was actually pretty good, but there seems to be big problems with the game at the highest levels, how it's officiated and the way the laws (or how they're being applied) are negatively affecting the game.

It was an interesting one, Nigel Owens had mentioned just before pinging the scrum penalty that refs would be very reluctant to make a decision that could change the course of the match, which that clearly did. Think they have to look at the law given how unclear these situations can be and given that front rows deliberately go looking for penalties. Free kick is one option that some refs use currently but that removes the effectiveness of the platform as you can set your defensive systems. Uncontested penalty scrums might be a way.

[Ruckedtobits]

I am appalled at the suggestion that Gatland might coach the Lions on another Tour in the future. His style of playing rugby is anatmia to what the Lions have historically stood for - the highest quality of running rugby the "Home" Nations could produce. Even in 1974, at the height of the forward power of the Lions in SA, the style was to run, pass, run - despite the fact that the Lions pack was stuffing the Boks & every Province in every game.

Gatland beat an average Aussie team 2-1, drew with a less than stellar NZ and was defeated by SA. Ireland beat the Aussies 2-1 in Oz; beat NZ three times in the same cycle and beat SA in SA in recent time. Ireland's results were attained under Joe Schmidt, undoubtedly a better coach than Gatland.

If the Lions reputation is to be rehabilitated - and it needs it - Joe as Head Coach would deliver.

[FLIP]

I am appalled at the suggestion that Gatland might coach the Lions on another Tour in the future. His style of playing rugby is anatmia to what the Lions have historically stood for - the highest quality of running rugby the "Home" Nations could produce. Even in 1974, at the height of the forward power of the Lions in SA, the style was to run, pass, run - despite the fact that the Lions pack was stuffing the Boks & every Province in every game.

Gatland beat an average Aussie team 2-1, drew with a less than stellar NZ and was defeated by SA. Ireland beat the Aussies 2-1 in Oz; beat NZ three times in the same cycle and beat SA in SA in recent time. Ireland's results were attained under Joe Schmidt, undoubtedly a better coach than Gatland.

If the Lions reputation is to be rehabilitated - and it needs it - Joe as Head Coach would deliver.

Garland is anathemic to the whole "spirit of the Lions" full stop. That they keep choosing him shows how little that means.

[Dave Cahill]

I am appalled at the suggestion that Gatland might coach the Lions on another Tour in the future. His style of playing rugby is anatmia to what the Lions have historically stood for - the highest quality of running rugby the "Home" Nations could produce. Even in 1974, at the height of the forward power of the Lions in SA, the style was to run, pass, run - despite the fact that the Lions pack was stuffing the Boks & every Province in every game.

Gatland beat an average Aussie team 2-1, drew with a less than stellar NZ and was defeated by SA. Ireland beat the Aussies 2-1 in Oz; beat NZ three times in the same cycle and beat SA in SA in recent time. Ireland's results were attained under Joe Schmidt, undoubtedly a better coach than Gatland.

If the Lions reputation is to be rehabilitated - and it needs it - Joe as Head Coach would deliver.

Joe is as much a busted flush as Gatland. The game moved on and left both of them behind.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

Rugby World has selected a joint SpringBoks/Lions XV
Only three lions made it - Itoje, Lawes and Jack Conan.
In fairness he was brilliant across the three tests and the rest. Thought Tadhg might have been in there too....
https://www.rugbyworld.com/lions-2021/p ... -xv-130180

"my team list" things are a bore...every feckin body has their own, but, it is nice to get jack getting a nod alongside Itoje (who was immense) and Lawes (who for me was immense in 1.5 tests) for the unsung work he does. 48 tackles made 0 missed. nice one jack.

[CiaranIrl]

Rugby World has selected a joint SpringBoks/Lions XV
Only three lions made it - Itoje, Lawes and Jack Conan.
In fairness he was brilliant across the three tests and the rest. Thought Tadhg might have been in there too....
https://www.rugbyworld.com/lions-2021/p ... -xv-130180

"my team list" things are a bore...every feckin body has their own, but, it is nice to get jack getting a nod alongside Itoje (who was immense) and Lawes (who for me was immense in 1.5 tests) for the unsung work he does. 48 tackles made 0 missed. nice one jack.

Henshaw is twice the player DeAllande is and he showed that in the tests. They won the series because they were better in the back three, better pack, better half backs. It wasn't won or lost in the midfield.