2021 Lions

[Dave Cahill]

My opinion is that if a senior international representative side plays a game against another senior international representative side then caps should be awarded. However these days there are other, often quite venal, considerations.

[cormac]

Three Boks have tested positive. Huge amount of cases in Gauteng at the moment.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Three Boks have tested positive. Huge amount of cases in Gauteng at the moment.

Steroids or COVID?

[hugonaut]

My opinion is that if a senior international representative side plays a game against another senior international representative side then caps should be awarded. However these days there are other, often quite venal, considerations.

They'll make it one now because Alun Wyn Jones got injured in it and won't tour.

No doubt in my mind that the Lions committee and the rest of the old international farts want him to have played in test matches on all four tours ... it's great for the brand.

It should be a test match anyway, it's Japan's national side.

[ronk]

Yes but it puts pressure to pick the strongest side or risk devaluing tests. This year the schedule favoured that, but who's to say another tour won't be different, especially with this game so close to League finals.

[munster#1]

2 Big blows for the Lions, losing 2 players that would likely have been involved in the test team, including the captain.

Given the attritional nature of the game these are unlikely to be the last changes to the squad, and we may well see a couple more Irish lads added to the squad.

I am absolutely delighted for Murray, he started the season with many “fans” and reporters calling for him to be put out to pasture. He found himself watching from the stand while alternatives were reviewed, but he fought his way back, and has now been rewarded with an opportunity to follow in the footsteps of previous Irish legends who have captained the Lions.

Another player who has had a fairytale journey is Beirne, going from being a pizza delivery driver who was not offered a professional contract by his home province, to being on the cusp of becoming a starting Lion is a remarkable achievement and testament to his mental fortitude.

This tour has just become more interesting from an Irish perspective.

Irish players that I believe will start a test if fit are Furlong, Beirne, Murray and Henshaw.
Henderson must be in the mix, and IMO will be in a couple of test squads, just not sure he’ll start.

Conan is likely to be in the 23 and may start at 8.
Gattie was having a good look at him yesterday at 8.
It was significant that Faletau went to 7 when Tipuric went off, both Conan and Beirne would have been better options as stand in 7.

I would be surprised and delighted in equal measures if Conan is being viewed as the starting 8.

It would be another great story, as IMO he is not even the best 8 in Leinster. To go on and become the starting 8 for the Lions after being overlooked by Ireland for so long would be a great story.

I hope you are right.

[hugonaut]

Conan is likely to be in the 23 and may start at 8.
Gattie was having a good look at him yesterday at 8.
It was significant that Faletau went to 7 when Tipuric went off, both Conan and Beirne would have been better options as stand in 7.

Conan was a lot better in general play than Faletau in Saturday's match, which was a surprise given how well Faletau has been playing recently. Admittedly Faletau was out of position, but he missed more tackles in one game than he did in the entire Six Nations.

I thought that the Lions looseheads looked quite ordinary. Maybe that's confirmation bias, because I'm not really convinced by either of them as top-tier internationals – not that they are not good rugby players, but I think Mako is streets and streets ahead of them.

[ronk]

I would be surprised and delighted in equal measures if Conan is being viewed as the starting 8.

It would be another great story, as IMO he is not even the best 8 in Leinster. To go on and become the starting 8 for the Lions after being overlooked by Ireland for so long would be a great story.

I hope you are right.

He's the form 8 in Ireland. It's not unusual to see for the Lions and this tour is far from an exception. See for example Beirne picked ahead of POM.

[Logorrhea]

People keep on underestimating Jack Conan. I don't understand it.

[riocard911]

Me either. Go Jack!!!!

[ronk]

People keep on underestimating Jack Conan. I don't understand it.

A lot of people underestimated Heaslip too.

I think a lot of it is to do with understanding what the role of an 8 is meant to be, rather than direct partisanship.

[Degz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtBI6qypL-4

Thought this was quite good, in fairness to OTB.

[Xanthippe]

People keep on underestimating Jack Conan. I don't understand it.

A lot of people underestimated Heaslip too.

I think a lot of it is to do with understanding what the role of an 8 is meant to be, rather than direct partisanship.

Interestingly in both of these posts the word ‘people’ is so easily interchangeable with ‘Munster fans’

[ronk]

I was trying not to be partisan, I meant Munster fans or people who listen to them.

[riocard911]

Did Ronan Kelleher travel or not?

[munster#1]

People keep on underestimating Jack Conan. I don't understand it.

A lot of people underestimated Heaslip too.

I think a lot of it is to do with understanding what the role of an 8 is meant to be, rather than direct partisanship.

Interestingly in both of these posts the word ‘people’ is so easily interchangeable with ‘Munster fans’

I definitely heard many Ireland fans of the Munster persuasion stating that they didn’t rate Heaslip, but I can’t think of any that would have said much about Conan?

Conan and Heaslip are far from comparable, Heaslip was picked by a fair few coaches for club and country as first choice, but Conan would not be in the same position.

As an Irish man I am delighted for Conan, he would not have featured in many people’s squads prior to being announced, and I’d be surprised if there were many on here who had him selected?
Which makes his selection all the more satisfying.

[dropkick]

Regard Ryan and Gatland.


Gatland has never worried about his tight 5 doing all the fancy stuff. He always liked them to be as big and as physical as possible. The impression I've always got from him is he has a 'hard to beat' way of coaching. While other coaches might focus on breaking down teams, Gatland wants his teams to be as bulked up, physical and as fit as possible with a rock solid defence.


Some of the surprise picks like Bundle Aki, Johnny Hill, Conan, Chris Harris are all big solid lumps who will do a job. Only Simmonds goes against the grain in terms of size but he is one of the form players in Europe. Also Watson to a degree. For a tour like this its not a bad strategy.


I think the matches will be tight and both teams will kick often and then its a matter of who makes least mistakes.

[JB1973]

A lot of people underestimated Heaslip too.

I think a lot of it is to do with understanding what the role of an 8 is meant to be, rather than direct partisanship.

Interestingly in both of these posts the word ‘people’ is so easily interchangeable with ‘Munster fans’

I definitely heard many Ireland fans of the Munster persuasion stating that they didn’t rate Heaslip, but I can’t think of any that would have said much about Conan?

Conan and Heaslip are far from comparable, Heaslip was picked by a fair few coaches for club and country as first choice, but Conan would not be in the same position.

As an Irish man I am delighted for Conan, he would not have featured in many people’s squads prior to being announced, and I’d be surprised if there were many on here who had him selected?
Which makes his selection all the more satisfying.

Toby f will play 8 in the tests as long as he is fit, gatland knows what he can do at 8 that's why he went to 7 and not conan

I like conan , good player and seems right up for the scrap but faletau is simply a better player and allied to his previous experience with gatland he will be starting in the tests (unless he gets injured) gutted for awj and tips, especially tips who wasn't even down to play until Watson pulled out

As for the game not a bad first hit out biggar henshaw and beirne the stand outs, I thought Watson looked sharp on his cameo to

Looking forward to the game this weekend , not sure how much rugby will actually be played on this tour

[JB1973]

Regard Ryan and Gatland.


Gatland has never worried about his tight 5 doing all the fancy stuff. He always liked them to be as big and as physical as possible. The impression I've always got from him is he has a 'hard to beat' way of coaching. While other coaches might focus on breaking down teams, Gatland wants his teams to be as bulked up, physical and as fit as possible with a rock solid defence.


Some of the surprise picks like Bundle Aki, Johnny Hill, Conan, Chris Harris are all big solid lumps who will do a job. Only Simmonds goes against the grain in terms of size but he is one of the form players in Europe. Also Watson to a degree. For a tour like this its not a bad strategy.


I think the matches will be tight and both teams will kick often and then its a matter of who makes least mistakes.

I can see Gatland picking Lawes and Itoje as his starting locks with Hill as the back up

Ryan is clearly a better player than beard but Ryan is struggling with injury

Beard has out performed Grey and the scots locks every time he has faced them, plus his main asset is his ability to disrupt the driving maul something the boks and their provincial teams use a lot

I don't see Beard as a test player so it's not a massive call either way for me

Naividi on the other hand is a real shout for a bench spot in the 23 with his ability to cover 6 7 and 8 , I still think we will see beirne curry and toby f as the test back row but josh could easily make the bench he is a good player in fairness to him (although so is Watson)

[backrower8]

James Ryan Captain's Ireland on the same day the B&I Lions play the Lions...so much for the injury story standing up to scrutiny