Springboks name team for first test

[RnR]

Springbok team for the first Test against the British & Irish Lions: (Test caps in brackets)

Frans Steyn (27)
JP Pietersen (24)
Adi Jacobs (21)
Jean de Villiers (46)
Bryan Habana (46)
Ruan Pienaar (27)
Fourie du Preez (43)
Pierre Spies (19)
Juan Smith (54)
Heinrich Brussow (1)
Victor Matfield (80)
Bakkies Botha (55)
John Smit (81) - captain
Bismarck du Plessis (21)
Tendai Mtawarira (10)

Replacements:
Gurthro Steenkamp (20)
Deon Carstens (7)
Andries Bekker (13)
Danie Rossouw (36)
Ricky Januarie (34)
Jaque Fourie (42)
Morne Steyn (uncapped).

[ronk]

Interesting!

Broussow.

Morne Steyn on the bench to come on and score a winning drop goal.

[TrapperChamonix]

While SA are obviously a team packed with talent and favourites to win the series, there are some chinks in their armour. Pinear looks a better Scrum Half than Out Half, Francoise Steyn is not an experienced full back at international level and obviously John Smit at prop is a risk as well. Add to that Jean de Villiers porous midfield defence means there are areas for the Lions to target.

[leinsterlank]

I dont really see steyn as a weakness at fullback!The poor fella is so talented that he's played in every position, he has enough experience at this stage to cope I think! Pienaar looks to be turning into a very good outhalf, and hasnt played scrummie for a while, as for morne he's a bit inexperienced to start but will impact if hes brought on! Smit can be targeted but there scrum will be too strong for us regardless! JDV definately doesnt have a porous defence! In short I disagree heavily with the above post. The 3-0 whitewash is all but completed!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think Pienaars a brilliant outhalf tbh.I also think Steyn is better than people give him credit for but in saying that if I was PDV I would have played Morne Steyn at 10 and Pienaar at fullback.SA have a lot of impact off their bench and regardless of what team the Lions pick I can't see them winning on Saturday. Unfortunately I think SA will win the series 3-0.

[suisse]

I think Pienaars a brilliant outhalf tbh.I also think Steyn is better than people give him credit for but in saying that if I was PDV I would have played Morne Steyn at 10 and Pienaar at fullback.SA have a lot of impact off their bench and regardless of what team the Lions pick I can't see them winning on Saturday. Unfortunately I think SA will win the series 3-0.

Ruan Piernaar is a world class fly half, and anyone who saw his performance against England will back that up. But he has been injured all season, so this isn't the form selection. Also, Steyn's place kicking ratio stood at about 67% after the S14s; Piernaar's average for the past 24 months is less than that. And, in truth, he has developed a career in that position because the Sharks have realised that Rory Kockett is actually a scrum half.

Francois Steyn may not be "a weakness" at 15, but Zane Kirchner is the bets full back in South AFrica right now, and must do with a place on the Emerging Boks team. The second best full back is Stefan Terblanche, who keeps Steyn out of the 15 position for the Sharks. It's a bizarre selection. I wa sunder the impression that selecting Steyn was likely all along at 15, but was done to compliment the fact that the Lions have the best tactical kickers in the world, and that's why I also thought Morne Steyn would start. This is a surprising selection.

John Smit may not be a prop, but he is unbelievably fit, and will move to hooker at some point, allwoign the Lions 2 Test props to bring off the bench. This is goign to be tough

[nonamer]

We can look forward to at least 8 long range drop goal attempts, followed by the appropriate boos with that fullback selection. Also huge likelihood of every Lions try being created straight through that 13 channel!

[hugonaut]

Didn't think Terblanche showed well for the Sharks against the Lions at all. Tackling Drico with his back?

Ruan Pienaar is a top quality player, but I'm not sure I'd agree that he's a world class out-half, as he simply hasn't played enough time there. Matt Giteau, Juan Martin-Hernandez and Dan Carter are the best out-halves in the world, and Pienaar, while he's arguably as good a player as any of them, isn't as good an outhalf as them.

Steyn blows hot and cold, Adi Jacobs isn't as good as Jacques Fourie and I'd rather play against JP Pietersen than Odwa Ndungane. The Springbok pack is quality, du Preez is the best scrum half in the world and de Villiers is world class, but I don't think that they're as good as the team that won the World Cup. Butch James was an established outhalf, Percy Montgomery was the most-capped Springbok fullback in history and a points machine, and Habana was in incredible form. Jake White is a better coach, now and then, than Peter de Villiers. They're definitely favourites, but they're not unbeatable.

[downsouthdukin]

Jake White is a better coach, now and then, than Peter de Villiers. They're definitely favourites, but they're not unbeatable.

aye, and a certain gert smal was their forwards coach

[TrapperChamonix]

I'd agree with hugonaut. Compare the team that won the RWC
Montgomery; Pietersen, Fourie, Steyn, Habana; James, Du Preez; Du Randt, Smit, Van der Linde, B Botha, Matfield, Burger, Smith, Rossouw.

to the team that nearly lost to Scotland last autumn (which is pretty similar to the team picked for the 1st test)
Jantjes, Pietersen, Jacobs, de Villiers, Habana, Pienaar, Januarie, Mtawarira, du Plessis, Smit, Botha, Matfield, Burger, Smith, Spies.

Spies might be better than Rossouw and Du Preez better than Januarie but the other positions, props x 2, centers, o/h, fullback and manager are all weaker than the RWC.

[leinsterlank]

I dont think its gonna really matter, they'll be good enough.

[TrapperChamonix]

I dont think its gonna really matter, they'll be good enough.

I suspect you're right, but I'm still believing in the BOD slam......... GS, HEC, try in his 100th cap to win the series in the last game v the Boks. I may be delusional, but I still believe........................ at least for another 4 days anyway.

[suisse]

Didn't think Terblanche showed well for the Sharks against the Lions at all. Tackling Drico with his back?

Ruan Pienaar is a top quality player, but I'm not sure I'd agree that he's a world class out-half, as he simply hasn't played enough time there. Matt Giteau, Juan Martin-Hernandez and Dan Carter are the best out-halves in the world, and Pienaar, while he's arguably as good a player as any of them, isn't as good an outhalf as them.

Steyn blows hot and cold, Adi Jacobs isn't as good as Jacques Fourie and I'd rather play against JP Pietersen than Odwa Ndungane. The Springbok pack is quality, du Preez is the best scrum half in the world and de Villiers is world class, but I don't think that they're as good as the team that won the World Cup. Butch James was an established outhalf, Percy Montgomery was the most-capped Springbok fullback in history and a points machine, and Habana was in incredible form. Jake White is a better coach, now and then, than Peter de Villiers. They're definitely favourites, but they're not unbeatable.

I don't think one match makes Terblanche a bad player. He was, arguably, the Sharks' best back in the Super 14 and was the only player holding his own during his team's dramatic loss of form. I just think every reason why they selected Steyn, Terblanche can do just as well, except for the drop goals, but he is definitely more of a reassuring figure at the back. Steyn is brilliant, but erratic and petulant. Terblanche tackles, is strong under his high ball, and has a big boot. If he is selected ahead of the Steyn in that position for the Sharks, you'd imagine he would be for the Boks too. Plus the game is in his home stadium. However, I still think Zane Kirchner is the best full back they have. He makes mistakes, probably because he's eager/inexperienced but he was lethal against the Chiefs, Crusaders and Sharks with ball in hand. If you comile a composite team of Boks and Lions, already the Lions are 1-0 up.

I take your point on Pienaar, although, I'm not sure how many games constitutes being world class or not. Certainly though, any player who can be selected to play for his country, and we're talking South Africa here, not Nigeria, in every position in the back line bar centre is clearly a special talent. I would have him at 10 ahead of JMH, because everything with him is merely speculative these days. Did you see him in the Top 14 semi?

TC, yeah they struggled against Scotland, but they beat the living sh!t out of England and Danny Cipriani too. And a lot of 'experts' are saying the Lions can't win without a strong English core.

Deon Carstens in on the bench. Can anyone confirm if he made the Emerging Boks squad too please?

[TrapperChamonix]

The truth is that the Lions always loose. They have won 4 series in the last 100 years, NZ in 71, SA in 74 & 97 and Oz in 89. In every series in the last 50 years, the Lions have started the 1st test as massive underdogs. Almost every time the odds are right.
In 97, everyone thought the Lions would loose against the World Champions. The team were full of players who were deemed either too inexperienced or just not good enough. The Boks pointed to Wallace, Smith, Davidson, Dawson, Townsend and Jenkins (at FB) as weaknesses that the Lions could not overcome.
In the 1st test in 01 again against the World Champions, BOD, Hendo, Robinson as not being up to the task and yet they were pivotal to winning that 1st test. A series that we should have won except for Wilko imploding in the 2nd test.
In 05, the Kiwis didn't rate any of the team. Our skills were deemed to be good enough and they were right.


Prediciting a loss for the Lions is about as easy as predicting Leinsters demise in the HEC on any given year. But I before the tests in 71, 73, 89 & 97, everyone was predicting the Lions to loose as well.
Ultimately the B&I Lions are a case of the triumph of hope over experience. You can point to experience, for now I cling to hope.

[dipper]

Didn't think Terblanche showed well for the Sharks against the Lions at all. Tackling Drico with his back?

Ruan Pienaar is a top quality player, but I'm not sure I'd agree that he's a world class out-half, as he simply hasn't played enough time there. Matt Giteau, Juan Martin-Hernandez and Dan Carter are the best out-halves in the world, and Pienaar, while he's arguably as good a player as any of them, isn't as good an outhalf as them.

Steyn blows hot and cold, Adi Jacobs isn't as good as Jacques Fourie and I'd rather play against JP Pietersen than Odwa Ndungane. The Springbok pack is quality, du Preez is the best scrum half in the world and de Villiers is world class, but I don't think that they're as good as the team that won the World Cup. Butch James was an established outhalf, Percy Montgomery was the most-capped Springbok fullback in history and a points machine, and Habana was in incredible form. Jake White is a better coach, now and then, than Peter de Villiers. They're definitely favourites, but they're not unbeatable.

I don't think one match makes Terblanche a bad player. He was, arguably, the Sharks' best back in the Super 14 and was the only player holding his own during his team's dramatic loss of form. I just think every reason why they selected Steyn, Terblanche can do just as well, except for the drop goals, but he is definitely more of a reassuring figure at the back. Steyn is brilliant, but erratic and petulant. Terblanche tackles, is strong under his high ball, and has a big boot. If he is selected ahead of the Steyn in that position for the Sharks, you'd imagine he would be for the Boks too. Plus the game is in his home stadium. However, I still think Zane Kirchner is the best full back they have. He makes mistakes, probably because he's eager/inexperienced but he was lethal against the Chiefs, Crusaders and Sharks with ball in hand. If you comile a composite team of Boks and Lions, already the Lions are 1-0 up.

I take your point on Pienaar, although, I'm not sure how many games constitutes being world class or not. Certainly though, any player who can be selected to play for his country, and we're talking South Africa here, not Nigeria, in every position in the back line bar centre is clearly a special talent. I would have him at 10 ahead of JMH, because everything with him is merely speculative these days. Did you see him in the Top 14 semi?

TC, yeah they struggled against Scotland, but they beat the living sh!t out of England and Danny Cipriani too. And a lot of 'experts' are saying the Lions can't win without a strong English core.

Deon Carstens in on the bench. Can anyone confirm if he made the Emerging Boks squad too please?

Only uncapped South African players are eligible for the Emerging Springboks so Deon Carstens couldn't be in their squad.

[gfo]

Steyn is a actually an incredible full back when you get past his desperate need to kick ridiculous kicks. all in all looks like a very strong team

[hugonaut]

I take your point on Pienaar, although, I'm not sure how many games constitutes being world class or not. Certainly though, any player who can be selected to play for his country, and we're talking South Africa here, not Nigeria, in every position in the back line bar centre is clearly a special talent. I would have him at 10 ahead of JMH, because everything with him is merely speculative these days.

Fair enough, you make a lot of good points; still disagree about Pienaar though. Outhalf is about more than physical talent and skills – it's about game-generalship, leadership and experience. Unless you've shown them at the highest level a number of times, I don't think you can be considered world class. Do you consider Danny Cipriani world class? He absolutely ran the game against Ireland in Twickenham 2008 and showed tremendous skill in every facet of the game, but no, he's not a world class outhalf. He hasn't done it often enough and nor, in my opinion, has Ruan Pienaar. Not comparing like with like, I know, and I really rate Pienaar, but I don't consider him to be a world class outhalf yet. Time will tell.

Just as an addendum, outhalf has probably been SA's problem position since the retirement of Henry Honiball. While NZ have had Andrew Mehrtens and Dan Carter, the Wallabies have had Steven Larkham and Matt Giteau, the Pumas Phillipe Contepomi and Juan Martin Hernandez, the Boks have had ... Jannie de Beer, Butch James and Jaco Pretorius? Here's hoping – for the Lions' sake – that their search isn't over just yet.

[suisse]

Just as an addendum, outhalf has probably been SA's problem position since the retirement of Henry Honiball. While NZ have had Andrew Mehrtens and Dan Carter, the Wallabies have had Steven Larkham and Matt Giteau, the Pumas Phillipe Contepomi and Juan Martin Hernandez, the Boks have had ... Jannie de Beer, Butch James and Jaco Pretorius? Here's hoping – for the Lions' sake – that their search isn't over just yet.

I don't think they ever recovered from Henry Honiball's retirement/desire to remain a farmer, and a little like England with Jonny Wilkinson, didn't appreciate what they had until they were gone. They have produced some quality 10s, way more than we have (greater numbers taken into consideration) such as the guys you mentioned, and Jaco VDW. Andre Pretorius too (are you mixing up names above?). Did you see the two 10s who played for the Kings XV against the Lions? They were quality out halves for that level. How none of them developed into what they should (think Pretorius is biggest waste of talent) is a mystery, and they seem to have concluded that Francois Steyn is no 10. It seems to be the same thing over and over again: lack of discipline!

Consider too the Sharks had to sign Freddie Michalek and Tony Grant was hacking around for a while. You raise a good point, especially when you look at the scrum halves coming through.

Any South African talent in the U-21's? Anyone watching it?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Just as an addendum, outhalf has probably been SA's problem position since the retirement of Henry Honiball. While NZ have had Andrew Mehrtens and Dan Carter, the Wallabies have had Steven Larkham and Matt Giteau, the Pumas Phillipe Contepomi and Juan Martin Hernandez, the Boks have had ... Jannie de Beer, Butch James and Jaco Pretorius? Here's hoping – for the Lions' sake – that their search isn't over just yet.

I don't think they ever recovered from Henry Honiball's retirement/desire to remain a farmer, and a little like England with Jonny Wilkinson, didn't appreciate what they had until they were gone. They have produced some quality 10s, way more than we have (greater numbers taken into consideration) such as the guys you mentioned, and Jaco VDW. Andre Pretorius too (are you mixing up names above?). Did you see the two 10s who played for the Kings XV against the Lions? They were quality out halves for that level. How none of them developed into what they should (think Pretorius is biggest waste of talent) is a mystery, and they seem to have concluded that Francois Steyn is no 10. It seems to be the same thing over and over again: lack of discipline!

Consider too the Sharks had to sign Freddie Michalek and Tony Grant was hacking around for a while. You raise a good point, especially when you look at the scrum halves coming through.

Any South African talent in the U-21's? Anyone watching it?

A classic example of how they can botch the development of their 10s is the way they gave Bosman his debut so quickly and now he's playing 12 and seems to have no hope of becoming a Springbok again.

[hugonaut]

They have produced some quality 10s, way more than we have (greater numbers taken into consideration) such as the guys you mentioned, and Jaco VDW. Andre Pretorius too (are you mixing up names above?).

I did indeed mix them up - thanks for the correction.