Lions Team to Face Sharks

[CiaranIrl]

At the risk of this being a 'me too' post, I'm very annoyed about them not starting Kearney. Not even in the 22.

Shane Williams has no business starting another game. He has had three chances, and he threw them all away. His worst performance was the most recent. He very nearly gifted the Cheetahs the win with that STUPID pass. Yeah, as I say, I'm pissed about that one too.

Kearney should have been out there at either 14 or 15.

[TrapperChamonix]

I'm also worried that Shane Williams hasn't actually gotten ENOUGH gametime and I hope the rumours that the management want to replay the Golden Lions to give him the full 80 are true. His selection (and to a lesser extent Roberts) really makes me angry and Monye, D'arcy, Flutey and Kearney must be really p****ed off and i wouldn't blame them. I wonder will there be a rift in the squad now? Another thing that worries me is that the the Lions won't have played enough games before the tests in terms of both getting the test team combinations playing with each other but also trying out players which is clearly a problem.

D'Arcy has been brought out as cover, Flutey just coming back from injury and I thought Moyne has played 2 games already? Agree Kearney hasn't been given much of a run, though I would have been surprised to see him featuring in the tests anyway (not physical enough in the tackle). The inclusion of Shane Williams is just wrong.

[shezba]

With regards to Ferris vs Croft, I'd say it's honours even on performances so far, but as mentioned by the coolfreak, Ferris plays a more physical game. The omission of Brussouw from the Boks panel may mean that Wallace might get the edge over Williams if he has a good outing – there's no way that Burger can be as effective at the breakdown as Brussouw was for the Cheetahs, so it'd make more sense to counter his physicality with Wallace's strength and pace. Thats said, the Lions could play Williams in the Brussouw role to exploit his breakdown instinct against a bigger Bok backrow, so maybe that's not as clear a call as it seems. Heaslip is nailed on at No8.

What might swing it for Croft is that he can act as a third lineout jumper and it might be the most effective way of playing against Matfield and Botha even if this is at the expense of the tougher game Ferris plays. It would open the way for Hines to partner O'Connell to beef up the pack a bit more and would probably do for Williams at 7.

I really hope that Gatland/McGeechan have to justify enrolling Shane Williams in the Lions leg up programme soon, this can't go on. Even if he does find his attacking mojo, as a player who likes to come off his wing regularly and pop up everywhere, he has no place on a team that has only been playing together for a few weeks. At least Luke is getting a good opportunity on the wing. Against the Cheetahs it was really only going to be him or Hook at 12. I reckon that in going for Luke at 12, it shows that they are really looking for more options at 10. I think that the starting 12 for the next match will be really important as Flutey and D'Arcy haven't had any opportunity to show what they can do.

[Danthefan]

I'm also worried that Shane Williams hasn't actually gotten ENOUGH gametime and I hope the rumours that the management want to replay the Golden Lions to give him the full 80 are true. His selection (and to a lesser extent Roberts) really makes me angry and Monye, D'arcy, Flutey and Kearney must be really p****ed off and i wouldn't blame them. I wonder will there be a rift in the squad now? Another thing that worries me is that the the Lions won't have played enough games before the tests in terms of both getting the test team combinations playing with each other but also trying out players which is clearly a problem.

D'Arcy has been brought out as cover, Flutey just coming back from injury and I thought Moyne has played 2 games already? Agree Kearney hasn't been given much of a run, though I would have been surprised to see him featuring in the tests anyway (not physical enough in the tackle). The inclusion of Shane Williams is just wrong.

Monye has only played once. Of the 4 games now (one yet to be played obviously) the 8 starting wingers have been Williams x3, Bowe x2, Monye, Fitz, 1/2p.

[Comer Toes]

Very interesting indeed. It basically looks like a final trial for ROG, Croft and the two wings with the remainder of the test team in place. I thought they might leave it ‘til Western Province to go all out but I guess they thought that the key guys (Mears, BOD, POC, Heaslip, Phillips) could do with the 9 day break they’ll get from playing on Wednesday instead of Saturday and therefore they only had limited slots to have a look at. I think Ferris, Bowe and S Jones are in situ on the test team and will play their final pre-test game on Saturday. So if this is BOD’s last pre-test game then they’re right to put as much of the probable back-line alongside him instead of more experimentation with D’Arcy etc.

Just playing devil’s advocate here but the saffas have huge respect for Shane Williams and his broken field ability is potentially match-winning but the brains trust are taking a risk - very tough on Monye and Kearney no doubt. Reckon Fitz will deliver on Wednesday and force their hand anyways.

By the way – Croft vs Bakkies Botha, not a hope, not going to happen

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'm also worried that Shane Williams hasn't actually gotten ENOUGH gametime and I hope the rumours that the management want to replay the Golden Lions to give him the full 80 are true. His selection (and to a lesser extent Roberts) really makes me angry and Monye, D'arcy, Flutey and Kearney must be really p****ed off and i wouldn't blame them. I wonder will there be a rift in the squad now? Another thing that worries me is that the the Lions won't have played enough games before the tests in terms of both getting the test team combinations playing with each other but also trying out players which is clearly a problem.

D'Arcy has been brought out as cover, Flutey just coming back from injury and I thought Moyne has played 2 games already? Agree Kearney hasn't been given much of a run, though I would have been surprised to see him featuring in the tests anyway (not physical enough in the tackle). The inclusion of Shane Williams is just wrong.

But surely the fact that you think Williams inclusion is so wrong is because it's at the expense of others anyway otherwise why would it be wrong?
Darce deserves a crack at a test spot as much as anyone else and yes Flutey is coming back from injury so a bench spot is fine but not behind a guy who's had 2 starts already when Darce is kicking his heels having played about 6 mins so far.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Can anyone else see Halfpenny coming on for Luke with Williams moving across to his normal side? If that happens then i'll begin to pine for Sir Clive!

[TrapperChamonix]

I'm also worried that Shane Williams hasn't actually gotten ENOUGH gametime and I hope the rumours that the management want to replay the Golden Lions to give him the full 80 are true. His selection (and to a lesser extent Roberts) really makes me angry and Monye, D'arcy, Flutey and Kearney must be really p****ed off and i wouldn't blame them. I wonder will there be a rift in the squad now? Another thing that worries me is that the the Lions won't have played enough games before the tests in terms of both getting the test team combinations playing with each other but also trying out players which is clearly a problem.

D'Arcy has been brought out as cover, Flutey just coming back from injury and I thought Moyne has played 2 games already? Agree Kearney hasn't been given much of a run, though I would have been surprised to see him featuring in the tests anyway (not physical enough in the tackle). The inclusion of Shane Williams is just wrong.

But surely the fact that you think Williams inclusion is so wrong is because it's at the expense of others anyway otherwise why would it be wrong?
Darce deserves a crack at a test spot as much as anyone else and yes Flutey is coming back from injury so a bench spot is fine but not behind a guy who's had 2 starts already when Darce is kicking his heels having played about 6 mins so far.

Don't disagree with your sentiment, I was just looking at the rationale. I suspect also that gives ROG a final trial or sorts.....Phillips inside and Roberts & BOD outside.

Given what Dan has said, I would have given another chance to Moyne or 1/2p instead of Williams. As hard as it sounds, I don't think they'll feel much obligation to giving D'Arcy much gametime. They called him in when they had hugh doubts as to the fitness of Earls and Flutey, both of whom have recovered. I think their priority is probably to look at Flutey next.

[leinsterlank]

Can anyone else see Halfpenny coming on for Luke with Williams moving across to his normal side? If that happens then i'll begin to pine for Sir Clive!

Blasphemy....dont even suggest such a thing!!You have me worried already!

has the makings of a test team alright. I think nathan hines will be beside POC. Backrow is a tough call and will go to the one who performs out of ferris and croft. There are strong arguments for both and either will make a great impact sub

As for williams, the holder of world player of the year, he is out of form and must be discounted after this game!!Fitz needs a strong performance but I'm backing him for the test slot. As for kearney, I think he's been unlucky in the sense that he got the mumps at a sh!t time and is really paying for it. He hasnt carried any form into the tour and is up against byrne who is a few years ahead of him in terms of his all round game. He is more physical, runs better lines and is more aggressive in defence. I'm disappointed for darce but I suppose he couldnt expect to go out and just walk onto the pitch. He looked in fine form when he came on the last game for a few mins so saturday, presuming he starts should be interesting. I'm not a big fan of flutey and think he is too flimsy and patchy to play lions rugby off the bench. I'm backing darce for the bench after the first test!

[AidanSloan]

Would anyone else consider Croft at 6 with Ferris at 7. Or has the cricket result just melted my brains?

[hugonaut]

Yeah, I'd actually thought about it, but the other way around: Ferris just seems like and out-and-out 6 to me, whereas Croft is a great athlete who [in my opinion] lacks the necessary aggression and for want of a better word 'hardness' for a 6. Against that is the fact that Ferris played a full season of openside for Ulster a couple of years ago, and Croft plays blindside fairly regularly but has not, to my knowledge, played openside at a serious level.

If the Boks had included Brussouw in their squad, you wouldn't want to risk a backrow combination like that for fear of another turnover-fest at the breakdown á la the Cheetahs game. However, they've left him out, so you know what you're going to get: Burger, Smith and Spies, with the only other options being Kankowski [very similar to Spies] or Danny Roussouw [who's just a big monster].

I don't think it's at all likely for the First Test, but going on what happens in that match, it could be seen as the best option in fighting fire with fire in a later test. Stranger things have happened on Lions' tours: Ben Clark [all 6'5" and 17+ stone of him] played at openside in New Zealand in 1993 rather than his usual position of No8 and was probably the Lions' best player.

[ronk]

Would anyone else consider Croft at 6 with Ferris at 7. Or has the cricket result just melted my brains?

Don't think anyone would blame ya, just don't suggest it again. A specialist 7 is a must though. I always had Ferris done as starting at 6 (even before the squad came out). I can see Croft wearing 19 or even 18 on his back.

This team is strongly suggestive of the expected Test XV but there are 3 more matches. It should be remembered that selection is likely to change even after the first test.

Interesting selection with Flutey acting as cover for ROG. He won't be used (there) unless ROG goes down or the Lions are way in front. If they do that it could be 1/2p coming on too as a kicker.

I don't get the rage over Kearney. He played on Saturday, he's recovering from mumps and he's locked in for more games. It wouldn't have made sense to play him on Wed. Nice to see Luke getting selected for back to back games. Bit tougher for him but he should be well up to the challenge.

Definitely still places up for grabs but there are some clear frontrunners. BOD might not play again before the tests. To me, that means either Earls or Roberts on Saturday.

[suisse]

You could probably get away with it because Schalk Burger is out of form, and the Bok midfielders don't act as auxillery flankers like Ireland's. However, so much of the Bulls game is played around the breakdown, winning turnovers, and isolating forwards with their rampant backs/back rows. Because it's all about physicality, we should look at Williams because it offers something different, and by selection of two blindsides in the Lions team, we run the risk of trying to play them at their own game, and we will lose that battle.

It's looking more and more likely (talking to South Africans who have still ties with the game there) that the Boks will play Francois Steyn at 15. We need to target the back three selection (for all of Habana's strenghts, Shane Williams has the Indian sign over him) and JP, whilst OK, is not as good as Tommy Bowe. Our centres should be better, and we need to get into Morne Steyn's head.

If you recall the 1997 tour, we know the Lions won, but the Boks outscored them 9-3 (afaik) in tries in the Tests. The Lions won because we, and not they, kicked the goals. Steyn ended the regular season with something like 68% kicking success.

I see, unfortunately, no way the Lions can win this. Imagine a composite team with players from both sides. They're just too good

[AidanSloan]

It's because Ferris is so fast and played at 7 when Best was still at Ulster that I'm suggesting it. And something to remember is that Wallace is a specialist 6 who was accomodated at 7 when Jim Williams joined Munster. And Ferris is much faster to the breakdown than Wallace ever was.

[Xanthippe]

I don't get the rage over Kearney. He played on Saturday, he's recovering from mumps and he's locked in for more games. It wouldn't have made sense to play him on Wed.

He didn't - he hasn't played since last Wednesday.

McGeechan said today:
If you've got only six games to your first Test match, the chances are you might only play twice or three times. What is important is the time they are getting together on the training field.

"I know we can't change the number of games going into the first Test. I just think it is more important that each player gets a genuine go - at least twice - to put his own game on the field."

http://www.scrum.com/lionstour/rugby/story/97926.html

Love this line - Darce has had all of 6 minutes so far! I appreciate I'm hugely biased here but why bring him out of you're not going to give him a fair chance. Hopefully he will get to start on Saturday.

[ronk]

It's because Ferris is so fast and played at 7 when Best was still at Ulster that I'm suggesting it. And something to remember is that Wallace is a specialist 6 who was accomodated at 7 when Jim Williams joined Munster. And Ferris is much faster to the breakdown than Wallace ever was.

That's the first I heard about it. From the very first time I saw Wallace I remember him (the promising younger brother) as a 7 or 8. He was picked for the Lions in 2001 there and played at 7 mostly for Ireland. I can never recall seeing him start a match at 6.

When Jim Williams joined Munster they were able to field an Irish team backrow of Quinlan, Wallace, Foley. Wallace was already a Lion by the time Williams joined Munster.

[downsouthdukin]

It's because Ferris is so fast and played at 7 when Best was still at Ulster that I'm suggesting it. And something to remember is that Wallace is a specialist 6 who was accomodated at 7 when Jim Williams joined Munster. And Ferris is much faster to the breakdown than Wallace ever was.

nonsense..think you'll find wallace was dropped during williams few years at munster. quinlan played 6 and when he was out wallace played 7 with williams at 6.
wallace was never a 6, never will be

[downsouthdukin]

sorry ronk, you already had this

[downsouthdukin]

on the ferris issue, id like to have seen him given a go at 8 cause god knows if anything happens to heaslip powell aint up to it

[ronk]

sorry ronk, you already had this

Yeah, how dare you agree with me and make it clear that I was correct.



Just because you provided additional relevant information doesn't let you off the hook.