2021 Lions

[the spoofer]

I see Rassie has gone full Keegan.

I was thinking more Brendan Venter.

As for being a bluff, distraction to take pressure off the players.... Well you know what they call people who ironically f%~k a goat?

That's right, goatfuckers.

Erasmus is really bringing the game into disrepute at this stage. World Rugby should fine his union a significant amount for the behaviour of their DOR, which has been an embarrassment to the sport. Grow the f*ck up and act with some decorum.

I was about to say that I was obviously getting older and crotchety over the pandemic [which is true], but on second thoughts I always would have thought that the two coaches whinging about refereeing decisions and "playing mind games" before the first test was a load of tawdry sh*t. I thought that people LOLing over tweets by "Jaco Johan" was just performative banter nonsense ... Haskell-class, F Grade bantz. "The sh*tness is what made it funny" - no, you d*ckhead. It didn't. You are the type of beller who laughs at your country's equivalent of Rory's Stories.

I actually don't give a sh*t about the Lions - it has really grown stale for me. I just want the Leinster players to a] not get injured and b] play well so that they enjoy it and give a good account of themselves. Same thing to a lesser extent for the rest of the Irish players, then no particular feelings about it. The constant hype is wearing and clearly doesn't match the below-ordinary standard of the matches. How can somebody tell me that playing against Natal Seconds in a empty stadium compares with [never mind exceeds] playing England or France in the Six Nations and expect me to believe that?

The never-ending din on social media of people being more Lionsy than each other and telling everybody that "that's what the Lions is all about". Listen up, you pontificating dose: the Lions is about getting loads of kit and being on the next team up, so you can be super-friends with all the other international BFDs. As I've said before, it's like being on the SCT when you're an U16. You are now officially a BFD. It's a great feeling.

With all that said ... I will actually be cheering for them on Saturday. South Africa rugby fans must be the most irritating set of knobs on planet rugby. They make Welsh Rugby Twitter look like a collection of sound philosophers. No offense JB1973. You're actually sound.

A post that perfectly encapsulates how I feel about the Lions only better than I can write!

[cormac]

Very poor second half performance.

In the first half the Lions had enough of the ball to prevent the Boks from exposing the Lions weakness in the air. The Boks bench made a positive difference, the Lions bench a negative difference and that allowed the Boks to rain ball after ball down on a poor back three.

I don't know that I'd make many too many changes, but I've always believed that it doesn't matter how brilliant your full back is with ball in hand if he can't dominate the air. I'd bring Williams and Adams in for Hogg and vd Merwe.

I was very umimpressed with Sutherland and Sinkler too.

Its funny how momentuum can shift. In the first half, Itoje was the best player on the park - Etzebeth was nowhere. In the second half, the reverse

Liam Williams and Josh Adams should be definites. Adams should have started both tests in any event.

To speak frankly, Sutherland doesn't look like he belongs on this tour. I remember reading journalists talking him up during the Six Nations as a potential Lions test player and asking myself what the f*ck they were talking about. He is just a generic Scottish prop. They might as well have picked Jamie Bhatti or some other identikit, undersized loosehead.

I wonder what Cian Healy makes of Sutherland's performances.

[ronk]

I was thinking the same thing.

But it wasn’t just there that the Lions lost.

[hugonaut]

That Lions performance reminded me of their second test against Australia eight years ago, which was one of the most ambition-less game plans I have ever seen a team go out with.

2nd Test vs Australia, 2013 [link: http://en.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/ru ... 55514.html ]
Kicks from hand: 22
Passes: 70
Runs: 66
Metres run with ball: 140

2nd Test vs South Africa, 2021 [link: https://www.espn.com/rugby/matchstats?g ... gue=268565 ]
Kicks from hand: 23
Passes: 85
Runs: 85
Metres run with ball: 105

[Blueberry]

Very poor second half performance.

In the first half the Lions had enough of the ball to prevent the Boks from exposing the Lions weakness in the air. The Boks bench made a positive difference, the Lions bench a negative difference and that allowed the Boks to rain ball after ball down on a poor back three.

I don't know that I'd make many too many changes, but I've always believed that it doesn't matter how brilliant your full back is with ball in hand if he can't dominate the air. I'd bring Williams and Adams in for Hogg and vd Merwe.

I was very umimpressed with Sutherland and Sinkler too.

Its funny how momentuum can shift. In the first half, Itoje was the best player on the park - Etzebeth was nowhere. In the second half, the reverse

Pretty much sums it up....atrocious second half from the Lions back three and the entire sub front row was pants......

[Ruckedtobits]

When a Coach selects a team and plays tactics intent solely on getting the opposition to concede penalties and the result, it is valid to question the coaching philosophy. When the players selected are so far away from performing the Game Plan, it is valid to question the game plan and the leadership.

Where the Lions go from here is somewhat of a question mark? They have made little effort to develop a game of pace and movement, retaining possession or looking for line breaks. Is a week of two serious training sessions sufficient to alter the patterns of the past 6 weeks? This critic thinks not and I expect the ' Boks to close out the series comfortably but hope that World Rugby suspend their DOR from touchline or closer presence for the remainder of this international season.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think the Lions need to realise that if they keep playing sh!t rugby on future tours then they'll die. I've never really been hugely into the concept apart from the first tour I watched and thought I was an outlier among rugby nuts but from reading online and chatting to friends I think they might be in big trouble soon, particularly when the next series is in Australia. The last two tests have been shocking spectacles and if there had been anything else on then I'd have switched over.

Look I don't want the game to turn into 7s and have enjoyed plenty of big wins that weren't entertaining, but the Lions is different IMO and requires more of an entertainment value. Even if people disagree with that I don't think anyone could stand over the last two games as being acceptable.

Obviously they play within the parameters provided and World Rugby are at fault as well. I still can't understand how they think that the 50:22 law will improve things. I don't think it'll lead to more space and ball in hand, I think it'll lead to more kicking. When you give teams the opportunity to play safe then at the top level they take that the vast majority of the time. I can see it being causing real havoc in defensive lines too (players running back and forth between the 22s if there's kick tennis) but IMO that won't encourage people to play, it'll encourage them to be safe and put some structure on the game.

The first thing I think WR needs to do is get rid of the caterpillar shite. It slows the game down and encourages kicking, bin it off immediately and the game will change dramatically. I'd also look at something like if you kick into the 22 from outside it and the defending team calls a mark then they can kick to touch and have the throw in. You want to kick it? Fine, but it could cost you. Reduced kicking could lead to more picking and going like we see near the line these days but that's another thing they need to sort out anyway.

[IanD]

Sinckler cited for biting. Hearing on Tuesday.

RTE news : Kyle Sinckler cited for biting in Lions defeat

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0801 ... ns-defeat/

[MylesNaGapoleen]

anyone else had enough?

the tension I used to feel watching a Lions game, hoping Leinster / Irish lions don't make any mistakes and have a great game, is gone for me. It's a farce now for me. Utter farce.

[hugonaut]

I think the Lions need to realise that if they keep playing sh!t rugby on future tours then they'll die. I've never really been hugely into the concept apart from the first tour I watched and thought I was an outlier among rugby nuts but from reading online and chatting to friends I think they might be in big trouble soon, particularly when the next series is in Australia. The last two tests have been shocking spectacles and if there had been anything else on then I'd have switched over.

Look I don't want the game to turn into 7s and have enjoyed plenty of big wins that weren't entertaining, but the Lions is different IMO and requires more of an entertainment value. Even if people disagree with that I don't think anyone could stand over the last two games as being acceptable.

Obviously they play within the parameters provided and World Rugby are at fault as well. I still can't understand how they think that the 50:22 law will improve things. I don't think it'll lead to more space and ball in hand, I think it'll lead to more kicking. When you give teams the opportunity to play safe then at the top level they take that the vast majority of the time. I can see it being causing real havoc in defensive lines too (players running back and forth between the 22s if there's kick tennis) but IMO that won't encourage people to play, it'll encourage them to be safe and put some structure on the game.

The first thing I think WR needs to do is get rid of the caterpillar shite. It slows the game down and encourages kicking, bin it off immediately and the game will change dramatically. I'd also look at something like if you kick into the 22 from outside it and the defending team calls a mark then they can kick to touch and have the throw in. You want to kick it? Fine, but it could cost you. Reduced kicking could lead to more picking and going like we see near the line these days but that's another thing they need to sort out anyway.

I like the changes you've suggested. With regards to the caterpillar, I don't know a single person who would disagree with you. Rugby has laws governing exactly how flankers and No8s bind at scrumtime, so I don't know how they can't find a way to rule out the caterpillar.

I would like to see the mark distinctly re-powered to lower the number of contestable kicks, and particularly box-kicks, which are a bit of a pox on the game. I would like to see a competition played where you would be able to make a mark anywhere on the pitch, and you'd be allowed to take a drop-goal directly from a mark. Drop-goals have almost died out, and they are a great part of rugby. Here's a history of the mark [link: https://rugby365.com/laws-referees/law- ... ging-mark/ ], which I thought was pretty interesting.

[cormac]

I think the Lions need to realise that if they keep playing sh!t rugby on future tours then they'll die. I've never really been hugely into the concept apart from the first tour I watched and thought I was an outlier among rugby nuts but from reading online and chatting to friends I think they might be in big trouble soon, particularly when the next series is in Australia. The last two tests have been shocking spectacles and if there had been anything else on then I'd have switched over.

Agree with this. I went to 8/10 games in Australia in 2001. It was great fun, even if travelling those vast distances by bus was very wearing. I remember being pissed off for days after they lost the series. On Saturday I watched the first half on my laptop with the sound off while I stayed with the Ulster Football Final on the tv. The rugby was just a terrible spectacle and, quite frankly, very disappointing after what was a largely entertaining Six Nations. Feels like the sport has regressed badly in the last two weeks.

[Oldschoolsocks]

anyone else had enough?

the tension I used to feel watching a Lions game, hoping Leinster / Irish lions don't make any mistakes and have a great game, is gone for me. It's a farce now for me. Utter farce.

Yup, it’s cr@p

[MylesNaGapoleen]

anyone else had enough?

the tension I used to feel watching a Lions game, hoping Leinster / Irish lions don't make any mistakes and have a great game, is gone for me. It's a farce now for me. Utter farce.

Yup, it’s cr@p

Thanks OSS was beginning to feel I was alone.

[Dave Cahill]

Kicking is a core skill of the game, its not called Rugby throwball after all. So you want to reward good kicking, and punish poor kicking.

So what about...

1) If a defending player marks the ball, the free kick will be marked where the kick took place.
2) If an attacking player knocks the ball on, the scrum will take place where the kick occurred.
3) If an attacking player makes a clean catch in the opposition 22, provided the kick occurred outside the 22, they may choose to mark the ball

[ronk]

Go back to the laws about bringing the ball into touch as you catch it. It's harder on the defending team for box kicks. More aggressive on use it for the caterpillars, no law changes required.

Give defenders more protection when catching the ball in contested kicks, i.e. make sure kickers are clearly down before then can be smashed (no benefit of the doubt); give less latitude to aggressively compete in the air; go back to red cards for the Kolbe-Murray incident.

Probably something else too.

Get rid of most replays, especially this checking every try to see if maybe someone was offside or something was forward. Accept a few bad decisions as the cost for taking 10 minutes off the game.

That stuff is on the books or recently was so can be done fast and at low risk, without confusing fans or players.

[JB1973]

I have to confess I am and still remain a die hard lions fan, I Love the concept and it's usually been the only chance in my lifetime of seeing "my team" beat the big 3 SH sides (I'm also still emotionally attached to the ba bas so maybe I'm just not moving with the times)

This tour has been a bit of a mess but that's mainly down to the covid situation, and lack of mid week games as much as the rugby on display

Gats has always been a rugby pragmatist, winning is all that counts to him and not providing entertainment

Against the boks a team and in the first test, the lions superior fitness came into play and they dominated the last 30 minutes, I think he expected the same Saturday and picked a team and tactics to keep it close for 50 minutes and then kick on in the last 30

Sadly this tine the boks bench made a huge impact and they were the one's that kicked on, helped by some dreadful catching or failure to catch the high ball by our back 3 especially by Hogg

He gave up possession and field position pretty much every time the ball was kicked to him, him and VDM should both be dropped Saturday and Williams and Adams brought in so hopefully that solves that issue

In terms of changing tactics , the lions back play is hampered by having no real in form half backs or 13 , Murray and Farrell have been top class but neither is playing well at the moment and I simply don't rate Harris or Daly as a top class 13 .

I'd pick aki and henshaw in the centres if I was selecting the team and I'd have Marcus smith on the bench

In terms of the pack, awj and lawes didn't offer much Saturday I'd go for Beard at lock and Beirne at 6 , plus I'd bring wyn jones and George into the front row

I know it's not ideal to make 5 or 6 changes in the space of a week, but I really feel we do need to do something new this weekend , the boks will only get better and they also have vermualen back in the squad another boost for them

[jimbobjoe]

anyone else had enough?

the tension I used to feel watching a Lions game, hoping Leinster / Irish lions don't make any mistakes and have a great game, is gone for me. It's a farce now for me. Utter farce.

Yup, it’s cr@p

Thanks OSS was beginning to feel I was alone.

Definitely not alone. Last few tours have been dire and my interest is completely gone.

It'll never happen but I'd love Ireland to ditch the Lions and take on more proper tours of their own. Who knows, it might even help world cup prep.

[ronk]

I have to confess I am and still remain a die hard lions fan, I Love the concept and it's usually been the only chance in my lifetime of seeing "my team" beat the big 3 SH sides (I'm also still emotionally attached to the ba bas so maybe I'm just not moving with the times)

This tour has been a bit of a mess but that's mainly down to the covid situation, and lack of mid week games as much as the rugby on display

Gats has always been a rugby pragmatist, winning is all that counts to him and not providing entertainment

Against the boks a team and in the first test, the lions superior fitness came into play and they dominated the last 30 minutes, I think he expected the same Saturday and picked a team and tactics to keep it close for 50 minutes and then kick on in the last 30

Sadly this tine the boks bench made a huge impact and they were the one's that kicked on, helped by some dreadful catching or failure to catch the high ball by our back 3 especially by Hogg

He gave up possession and field position pretty much every time the ball was kicked to him, him and VDM should both be dropped Saturday and Williams and Adams brought in so hopefully that solves that issue

In terms of changing tactics , the lions back play is hampered by having no real in form half backs or 13 , Murray and Farrell have been top class but neither is playing well at the moment and I simply don't rate Harris or Daly as a top class 13 .

I'd pick aki and henshaw in the centres if I was selecting the team and I'd have Marcus smith on the bench

In terms of the pack, awj and lawes didn't offer much Saturday I'd go for Beard at lock and Beirne at 6 , plus I'd bring wyn jones and George into the front row

I know it's not ideal to make 5 or 6 changes in the space of a week, but I really feel we do need to do something new this weekend , the boks will only get better and they also have vermualen back in the squad another boost for them

There's also a general weariness at the end of a 51 week season without crowds. People's lives have been changed by Covid and TV attitudes are changing.

It's a Lion's tour without fans, it's always going to be a bit cr@p and coaches are a bit braver about playing puke rugby with no one to boo them.

In some ways this is the bit before the pendulum swings back. The game needs to change, partly because of concussion, partly because of overly cynical play.

In professional sport there's a balance between winning and entertaining. Players play to win, but their salaries depend on someone being willing to watch them play.

[JB1973]

The first half was a really bad spectacle , went on for ages tmo into everything and players from both sides seemed to be doing everything to kill the game from taking players out in the air to tripping each other

Will be interesting to see what next season is like when fans are back in the stadiums

[the spoofer]

How about we tour with Italy and France, the EU lions