2021 Lions

Forum for discussion of the British and Irish Lions trip to South Africa in 2009

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CiaranIrl
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2021 Lions

Post by CiaranIrl »

Thought I might take a punt on a squad to see how right I am down the line.

FRONT ROW: Mako Vunipola, Taghg Furlong,
Kyle Sinckler, Tomas Francis, Rory Sutherland, Andrew Porter, Jamie George, Ken Owens, Stuart McInally

SECOND ROW: Alun Wyn-Jones (Captain), Maro Itoje, Ian Henderson, James Ryan, Tadhg Beirne

BACK ROW: CJ Stander, Sam Underhill, Tom Curry, Taulupe Faletau, Billy Vunipola, Justin Tipuric

HALF BACK: Tomos Williams, Conor Murray, Ben Youngs, Finn Russell, Jonathan Sexton, Owen Farrell.

CENTRE: Robbie Henshaw, Many Tuilagi, Jonathan Davies, Henry Slade.

BACK THREE: Liam Williams, Anthony Watson, Stuart Hogg, Johnny May, Louis Rees-Zammit, Josh Adams
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backrower8
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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by backrower8 »

The Lions Board signal that they still want to Tour in South Africa as scheduled:

www.lionsrugby.com/2021/03/23/lions-rug ... ur-update/

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by backrower8 »

CiaranIrl wrote:
March 21st, 2021, 3:58 pm
Thought I might take a punt on a squad to see how right I am down the line.

FRONT ROW: Mako Vunipola, Taghg Furlong,
Kyle Sinckler, Tomas Francis, Rory Sutherland, Andrew Porter, Jamie George, Ken Owens, Stuart McInally

SECOND ROW: Alun Wyn-Jones (Captain), Maro Itoje, Ian Henderson, James Ryan, Tadhg Beirne

BACK ROW: CJ Stander, Sam Underhill, Tom Curry, Taulupe Faletau, Billy Vunipola, Justin Tipuric

HALF BACK: Tomos Williams, Conor Murray, Ben Youngs, Finn Russell, Jonathan Sexton, Owen Farrell.

CENTRE: Robbie Henshaw, Many Tuilagi, Jonathan Davies, Henry Slade.

BACK THREE: Liam Williams, Anthony Watson, Stuart Hogg, Johnny May, Louis Rees-Zammit, Josh Adams
I think you are very close. A few differences of opinion:

Overall the squad has a lot of ageing and unfit key players, so I think it is very vulnerable. While Johnny was very good against England, I think his lack of a threatening running game, due to age, would seriously hinder the Lions in a Test series. He will still go, as a finisher.

The 5 Saracens boys (I see you haven't included Daly) don't deserve to travel in numbers like this and they won't have the matches between now and the tour to sharpen up. Arguably they have been the soft-centre at the heart of England in the 6N. Especially the two Vunipolas, followed by Jamie George.

FRONT ROW: I think you have one tight head too many (for me Porter is now a tight head who can swap in an emergency). Wyn Jones has been the form lose head. I think Sutherland is too small and has had a modest tournament. It's not fashionable to say it but Cian Healy rolled back the years on Saturday and delivered an excellent 60+ minutes. He is the best technical scrummager, which is where I think you need to start when choosing props to face South Africa. Finally, Cowen-Dickie is better placed than either George or McInally (who has not played in quite a while)

BACK ROW: Stander for me as the second #8. Both Beirne and Itoje provide additional ballast at 6 if wanted, so bring in Watson as Billy V is not worth his place. A Shame Doris has missed the 6N.

OUT HALF: Biggar before Farrell, who is neither fish nor fowl/ out-half or centre. I don't see Gatland taking Russell unless he owns it in Paris.

CENTRE: North over Tuilagi who, again, is a long term injury who doesn't have the games to get fit and find form.

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

A few quick thoughts

North must be well in the frame for a centre spot plus he covers wing but gatland loves j davies and I would expect a henshaw/davies test partnership

I'd expect the big saffa/scot winger to figure as well he is a gatland type player , although his tackle was pretty rubbish on Friday

The boks have a v tall back row and throw to the tail a lot, I think the lions will have to counter this by playing a jumper at the back of the line Beirne would seem a good candidate for that role

Beirne 6 toby f 8 and then one from tupric curry underhill and Watson would be my backrow, I have feeling it will be curry with tupric on the bench

I don't see Gatland taking Russell just not his type of player on form both sexton and biggar are ahead of Farrell but I think all 3 will go

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by backrower8 »

Jack Conan has faced down both CJ & Billy V in the last 2 weekends. I don't think he will go ahead of either, but I think he is the #2 No.8 in the Home Nations (Doris n/a)

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

How do you guys rate simmons at Exeter? Billy V looks to be carrying weight and he I don't think gats was overly impressed by him pulling out of the last lions tour at the final hour . If Leinster have a good run in the erc and conan shines he is certainly in the discussion

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

The lions test team I think gats will pick

Hogg Watson Liam
JD Henshaw Sexton murray

Wyn jones Owens furlong
Itoje awj (Capt)
Beirne curry toby f

bench

Mako v Cowan Dickie Synkler Henderson Tips/ Naividi T Williams Farrell North

Who do I think are nailed on to start

Hogg,Watson,Henshaw, Wyn Jones, Owens,Furlong, Toby F the rest are still up for grabs but I don't see him leaving out AWJ and if he plays he will be captain

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by Peg Leg »

JB1973 wrote:
March 29th, 2021, 4:31 pm
The lions test team I think gats will pick

Hogg Watson Liam
JD Henshaw Sexton murray

Wyn jones Owens furlong
Itoje awj (Capt)
Beirne curry toby f

bench

Mako v Cowan Dickie Synkler Henderson Tips/ Naividi T Williams Farrell North

Who do I think are nailed on to start

Hogg,Watson,Henshaw, Wyn Jones, Owens,Furlong, Toby F the rest are still up for grabs but I don't see him leaving out AWJ and if he plays he will be captain
Agree on AWJ, he will definitely tour and play, but just so Gats can drop him when he announces his final test squad.
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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by hugonaut »

JB1973 wrote:
March 29th, 2021, 11:47 am
A few quick thoughts

North must be well in the frame for a centre spot plus he covers wing but gatland loves j davies and I would expect a henshaw/davies test partnership

I'd expect the big saffa/scot winger to figure as well he is a gatland type player , although his tackle was pretty rubbish on Friday

The boks have a v tall back row and throw to the tail a lot, I think the lions will have to counter this by playing a jumper at the back of the line Beirne would seem a good candidate for that role

Beirne 6 toby f 8 and then one from tupric curry underhill and Watson would be my backrow, I have feeling it will be curry with tupric on the bench

I don't see Gatland taking Russell just not his type of player on form both sexton and biggar are ahead of Farrell but I think all 3 will go
Agree with everything you've said there JB. George North would definitely be in my squad, one of the players of the Six Nations for me and I think over the course of the tournament the best No13.

JJV Davies is such an intelligent player but, to quote a phrase, "his legs are gone". He will definitely make the touring squad, but I reckon it will be like Will Greenwood in 2005 – the test team will be a stretch.

Finn Russell has successfully played himself out of the touring party over the course of the Six Nations.

I think Gatland will select a load of Saracens players - both Vunipolas, George, Itoje, Farrell, Daly. He has never been very concerned with public opinion.

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

Peg Leg wrote:
March 29th, 2021, 4:46 pm
JB1973 wrote:
March 29th, 2021, 4:31 pm
The lions test team I think gats will pick

Hogg Watson Liam
JD Henshaw Sexton murray

Wyn jones Owens furlong
Itoje awj (Capt)
Beirne curry toby f

bench

Mako v Cowan Dickie Synkler Henderson Tips/ Naividi T Williams Farrell North

Who do I think are nailed on to start

Hogg,Watson,Henshaw, Wyn Jones, Owens,Furlong, Toby F the rest are still up for grabs but I don't see him leaving out AWJ and if he plays he will be captain
Agree on AWJ, he will definitely tour and play, but just so Gats can drop him when he announces his final test squad.
That would be a very gatland type thing to do , Imagine the scene the series is poised at 1-1 and gats drops awj for ryan and then leaves him of the bench for Henderson. Cue meltdown in wales :)

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by OneLungDavy »

I think I'm alone in thinking AWJ has no right being in that test team, not sure I'd even tour him. I thought he was finished a year ago and haven't seen enough to say he's at elite Lions test standard. Compare him to the athletes available in his position - Itoje, Ryan, Hendo, Beirne, Gray, etcc I don't think he's at that level. Flashes of him getting steam-rolled by Kelleher in the 6n and up-ended by Connors in the Autumn.

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by blockhead »

CiaranIrl wrote:
March 21st, 2021, 3:58 pm
Thought I might take a punt on a squad to see how right I am down the line.

FRONT ROW: Mako Vunipola, Taghg Furlong,
Kyle Sinckler, Tomas Francis, Rory Sutherland, Andrew Porter, Jamie George, Ken Owens, Stuart McInally

SECOND ROW: Alun Wyn-Jones (Captain), Maro Itoje, Ian Henderson, James Ryan, Tadhg Beirne

BACK ROW: CJ Stander, Sam Underhill, Tom Curry, Taulupe Faletau, Billy Vunipola, Justin Tipuric

HALF BACK: Tomos Williams, Conor Murray, Ben Youngs, Finn Russell, Jonathan Sexton, Owen Farrell.

CENTRE: Robbie Henshaw, Many Tuilagi, Jonathan Davies, Henry Slade.

BACK THREE: Liam Williams, Anthony Watson, Stuart Hogg, Johnny May, Louis Rees-Zammit, Josh Adams
For me, I would like the guys in bold, to have the summer off, have a good pre-season and come flying out of the blocks next season.
Just my own opinion.
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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by Lock9541 »

blockhead wrote:
April 11th, 2021, 11:11 pm
CiaranIrl wrote:
March 21st, 2021, 3:58 pm
Thought I might take a punt on a squad to see how right I am down the line.

FRONT ROW: Mako Vunipola, Taghg Furlong,
Kyle Sinckler, Tomas Francis, Rory Sutherland, Andrew Porter, Jamie George, Ken Owens, Stuart McInally

SECOND ROW: Alun Wyn-Jones (Captain), Maro Itoje, Ian Henderson, James Ryan, Tadhg Beirne

BACK ROW: CJ Stander, Sam Underhill, Tom Curry, Taulupe Faletau, Billy Vunipola, Justin Tipuric

HALF BACK: Tomos Williams, Conor Murray, Ben Youngs, Finn Russell, Jonathan Sexton, Owen Farrell.

CENTRE: Robbie Henshaw, Many Tuilagi, Jonathan Davies, Henry Slade.

BACK THREE: Liam Williams, Anthony Watson, Stuart Hogg, Johnny May, Louis Rees-Zammit, Josh Adams
For me, I would like the guys in bold, to have the summer off, have a good pre-season and come flying out of the blocks next season.
Just my own opinion.
#fcukthelions
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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

OneLungDavy wrote:
April 11th, 2021, 6:33 pm
I think I'm alone in thinking AWJ has no right being in that test team, not sure I'd even tour him. I thought he was finished a year ago and haven't seen enough to say he's at elite Lions test standard. Compare him to the athletes available in his position - Itoje, Ryan, Hendo, Beirne, Gray, etcc I don't think he's at that level. Flashes of him getting steam-rolled by Kelleher in the 6n and up-ended by Connors in the Autumn.
The stats suggest otherwise tbh, he made more tackles then any other lock and carried for the second most yardage

He kept his discipline while itoje managed to turn into a penalty machine, Grey is a talent but too often goes missing in big games and Beirne will be a 6 if he plays

I admit I thought awj legs had gone pre this 6 nations but imo he played very well and out performed most of the second rows in the tournament

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

Coaches have been announced

townsend,(attack) tandy (defence) mcbryde (forwards) Jenkins (kicking)

thoughts?

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by FLIP »

JB1973 wrote:
April 13th, 2021, 10:03 am
Coaches have been announced

townsend,(attack) tandy (defence) mcbryde (forwards) Jenkins (kicking)

thoughts?
I don't think anybody can split hairs about those selections.
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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by John23 »

I see what you did there!
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OneLungDavy
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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by OneLungDavy »

JB1973 wrote:
April 13th, 2021, 10:02 am
OneLungDavy wrote:
April 11th, 2021, 6:33 pm
I think I'm alone in thinking AWJ has no right being in that test team, not sure I'd even tour him. I thought he was finished a year ago and haven't seen enough to say he's at elite Lions test standard. Compare him to the athletes available in his position - Itoje, Ryan, Hendo, Beirne, Gray, etcc I don't think he's at that level. Flashes of him getting steam-rolled by Kelleher in the 6n and up-ended by Connors in the Autumn.
The stats suggest otherwise tbh, he made more tackles then any other lock and carried for the second most yardage

He kept his discipline while itoje managed to turn into a penalty machine, Grey is a talent but too often goes missing in big games and Beirne will be a 6 if he plays

I admit I thought awj legs had gone pre this 6 nations but imo he played very well and out performed most of the second rows in the tournament
Fair point, I didn't check the stats tbh. If we assume Itoje takes the LH lock position, I think AWJ is up against Ryan primarily to get the TH lock position. They could bring a monster lock like Launchbury who may be better suited for the Boks. It will be interesting to see the balance they go for.

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by JB1973 »

One worry for me is that awj rarely does much in the line out these days, the boks will have two huge locks and a giant back row as well

If we only play 1 line out option in the second row, we really will need 1 possibly 2 jumpers in our back row so imo that really puts beirne in the box seat to be the six and could affect who we play at 7/8

I would expect Itoje Ryan and AWJ will make up the starting lock 23 in what order is to be decided.

Despite his 6 nations form I think you raise a valid concern about awj ability to last a tour out in SA and I would expect come the last tests ryan and itoje to be the lock pair with awj maybe coming on to add leadership for the last 20 he may even miss out on the test team in all 3 but he does seem the clear choice to be the tour leader. He has the standing in the game, the experience and he knows the coaches well,In fact given gatland;s comments and the coaching make up, I really don't see anyone else in the frame to be tour captain

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Re: 2021 Lions

Post by backrower8 »

Robyn McBride’s role means there is an outside chance of there being 4 Irish & Leinster front row players on the tour.

Healy is a better scrummager than Wyn Jones or Surherland and would be an excellent GIY to come off the bench for a 25 minute shift in tests. Marler still an option if he is prepared to do 8 weeks in the bubble.

Kelleher outplayed LCD last weekend. Has the power game, form and fitness.

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