What if...

[zenbren]

In previous seasons Leinster have seen how some French clubs are seriously uninterested in the HEC. It is clear that a number of them, i.e. those that have no realistic chance of winning, see participation as little more than a nuisance as participants do not benefit financially but rather share revenues derived directly from the tournament with all the other T14 clubs. M. Blanco has publicly and repeated muted the possibility of French clubs opting out of the tournament in the future.

The English complain, perhaps not without justification, that their top teams play too many games. They’ve foregone participation in the past.

Both are looking for a larger slice of the television and advertising revenue from the tournament.

Let’s say they don’t get what they are looking for in terms of dough and decide that their interests would be better served by either opting out of the HEC and starting an Anglo/ French tournament or, initially at least, forgetting about cross border club competitions fullstop.

Where would that leave us? Could we continue to grow the support base on a diet of ML? Would we be impacted financially? Would the Rainbow league (ML + Italians + SA) fly at all? As for our nearest and dearest, how eager would the world’s greatest rugby fans be to trek to Thomond or Musgrave for the spectacle of Munster vs. The Borders?

For a bonus point, how long would it take the English to drop the Welsh in the event of an Anglo/ French competition?

[Malahide Mullet]

Never happen, we can all go back to bed

[zenbren]

Never happen, we can all go back to bed

Yeah- the French never over react and it is difficult to think of a more collectively minded bunch than the English rugby community.

It is possible-

http://www.eurosport.com/rugby/european ... 1148.shtml

Eitherway- it is not the probability I'm talking about, it's the impact-

[Beer Baron]

The English complain about playing too many games yet they still opted for the EDF anglo welsh cup, in which they send out understrnegth squads. It's a double standard. Surely if they're complaining about too many games and fixture congestion (the english) they should scrap the anglo-welsh and stick with the far more lucrative (not only TV money, but gate receipts for the teams that make the KO rounds) HEC.

The french, well, I don't think they'll opt out of it. I think it's Blanco puffing out his chest in the hope that he can get an extra bit of cash. A deal will be reached because the French teams, esp Biarrtiz, Toulouse, Perpignan, Stade and even the likes of Agen know how much this competition can give to their clubs coffers.

[Red In The Pale]

The HEC without the English and French would be as important as the Celtic Cup.

A suggestion for the HEC - 4 groups of 4 with the top two in the q/f's. I know that this does not remove congested fixtures but it would have top teams with their egos on the line instead of mid-table drifters fulfilling fixtures. it would add real competition to get into the tournamnet not like the stroll it is at present for the Celtic teams - is it 7 out of eleven and the another in a play-off with 3rd Italian side?

Start with the top 5 in ML (regardless of country), GP, T14 + 1 Italian.
The country of the challenge cup winner would get an extra place the next season.
Those teams who potentially qualified last from their league and whose "compatriots" occupy the last four pool places would play a relegation playoff to see who would make way for the promoted team.

[Leinsterman]

For a bonus point, how long would it take the English to drop the Welsh in the event of an Anglo/ French competition?

Probably as soon as the current TV deal expires.

[mjad]

Surely if they're complaining about too many games and fixture congestion (the english) they should scrap the anglo-welsh and stick with the far more lucrative (not only TV money, but gate receipts for the teams that make the KO rounds) HEC.

hi, i'm a glaws fan just browsing other boards

we actually get more money from the edf than the HC, which is 1 of the big gripes from the english clubs. surely the hc SHOULD be worth more than the edf, but somehow it's not & the clubs think it can be better run & get more money from it

i think the big problem will be in england, france & italy the clubs run themselves in the celtic league (except edinburgh i think) the unions run the clubs & i can see there possibly being a split down these lines as the teams have different priorities.

ah well hope to see you all on the friday night for what should be a very good match

[Beer Baron]

Surely if they're complaining about too many games and fixture congestion (the english) they should scrap the anglo-welsh and stick with the far more lucrative (not only TV money, but gate receipts for the teams that make the KO rounds) HEC.

hi, i'm a glaws fan just browsing other boards

we actually get more money from the edf than the HC, which is 1 of the big gripes from the english clubs. surely the hc SHOULD be worth more than the edf, but somehow it's not & the clubs think it can be better run & get more money from it

i think the big problem will be in england, france & italy the clubs run themselves in the celtic league (except edinburgh i think) the unions run the clubs & i can see there possibly being a split down these lines as the teams have different priorities.

ah well hope to see you all on the friday night for what should be a very good match

If its more lucrative why is it being treated second rate by clubs sending out seconds teams? bizarre! An agreement will be reached, everyone wants to keep the HEC and all clubs know what it means to be in it or not in it as the case may be.

[CM]

we actually get more money from the edf than the HC

I don't think that's entirely accurate. It's a line that's been trotted out by the clubs in their defence of their position but it ignores a lot of factors I believe. The clubs participating in the HEC would almost definitely make more money than in the EDF in an overall context because the payments that come from the HEC are structured differently and more money would come from club sponsors and corporate interests.

[CM]

The other thing about the EDF cup is that the competition just can't be sustainable at the rates BBC and EDF are paying. If you look at the recent history of the 'domestic' cup in England it's never settled. The HEC is very much sustainable.

I've no problem with the clubs trying to get ERC to make as much money as possible but I'd hate for them to get their hands on it because I feel that Celtic and Italian interests will not be at the top of their priority list and we could see a big power shift over time (not that the English and French don't already have a lot of power) that would ultimately see the English and French run away from the other countries and ruin European rugby.

[jezzer]

The HEC is only worth less than the EDF Cup because the sponsorship and TV deals aren't as valuable. That's because they aren't up for expiry until the end of the accord. Once that happens, the pot of money will increase. It's a proven, banker of an event that is attracting bigger and bigger crowds and more sought after every year as a corporate event.

Sure the Frenchies and the Poms will use the new accord as a platform to try to screw more advantage from the tournament (and they may well get somewhere with it). We'll probably see a few format tweaks too - rugby is never afraid to adapt - but the HEC is going nowhere.

I sincerely hope the Italians are kept in - it's not doing them a lot of good to lose by cricket scores - but that'll change over time.

[mjad]

If its more lucrative why is it being treated second rate by clubs sending out seconds teams? bizarre! An agreement will be reached, everyone wants to keep the HEC and all clubs know what it means to be in it or not in it as the case may be.

btw, i have not attended any of the edf matches & am not alone as the attendance is way below the no of season ticket holders we have.


i think the way the hec has to be amended to give the clubs more money, or there could be a split - the big tv contracts are for the english & french clubs (mainly sky) so could be bad news for the celtic teams. i am not saying this is what i want, just getting this feeling this side of the irish sea

[Dave Cahill]

To be honest, I'm not as concerned about this as I would have been 12 months ago. Outside the top one or two clubs in each of France and England, there is virtually no strength in depth in the T14 or the GPL. The ML has Munster, Ulster, Llanelli, Gunners, Ospreys and ourselves. Were we to have to lose the outlet of European Cup rugby, then I still believe that the ML would continue to provide top class games for spectator and player alike.

[tones]

To be honest, I'm not as concerned about this as I would have been 12 months ago. Outside the top one or two clubs in each of France and England, there is virtually no strength in depth in the T14 or the GPL. The ML has Munster, Ulster, Llanelli, Gunners, Ospreys and ourselves. Were we to have to lose the outlet of European Cup rugby, then I still believe that the ML would continue to provide top class games for spectator and player alike.

Yeah but Stade and Biarritz to offer more genuine competition than the Gunners or even the Ospreys. I don't think it will happen and the EDF will disappear again like the last Anglo-Welsh initiative did and the poor aul taffs will be eating more humble pie.

[Skyhawk]

To be honest, I'm not as concerned about this as I would have been 12 months ago. Outside the top one or two clubs in each of France and England, there is virtually no strength in depth in the T14 or the GPL. The ML has Munster, Ulster, Llanelli, Gunners, Ospreys and ourselves. Were we to have to lose the outlet of European Cup rugby, then I still believe that the ML would continue to provide top class games for spectator and player alike.

ditto

[brotheroffrank]

"Would the Rainbow league (ML + Italians + SA) fly at all?

And will an Italian team get to the first Grand Final of the Rainbow Cup.......?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That’s some shout for 15 years ago!

[Oldschool]

The "problem" with the "Silly Season" is that sometimes the mask (or in old money guard) slips.
The biggest problem for Leinster and to an extent the IRFU is that if it becomes entrenched that it's no longer possible to win a HCC while playing for Leinster then the Marque players will move to where they can :-

A. Win silverware.
B. Make the big bucks.
C. Possibly learn a foreign language (Well it is the silly season in'it?)

Something to think about for all the stake holders because without a doubt some of our NIQ signings have been the difference between being winners and being also rans.

[Keith]

The "problem" with the "Silly Season" is that sometimes the mask (or in old money guard) slips.
The biggest problem for Leinster and to an extent the IRFU is that if it becomes entrenched that it's no longer possible to win a HCC while playing for Leinster then the Marque players will move to where they can :-

A. Win silverware.
B. Make the big bucks.
C. Possibly learn a foreign language (Well it is the silly season in'it?)

Something to think about for all the stake holders because without a doubt some of our NIQ signings have been the difference between being winners and being also rans.

Luck of the draw also helps... How many teams could beat Exeter and La Rochelle away from home in the space of a couple of weeks? Does anyone actually believe this Leinster team isn't capable of beating La Rochelle at home?

[Flash Gordon]

The "problem" with the "Silly Season" is that sometimes the mask (or in old money guard) slips.
The biggest problem for Leinster and to an extent the IRFU is that if it becomes entrenched that it's no longer possible to win a HCC while playing for Leinster then the Marque players will move to where they can :-

A. Win silverware.
B. Make the big bucks.
C. Possibly learn a foreign language (Well it is the silly season in'it?)

Something to think about for all the stake holders because without a doubt some of our NIQ signings have been the difference between being winners and being also rans.

Luck of the draw also helps... How many teams could beat Exeter and La Rochelle away from home in the space of a couple of weeks? Does anyone actually believe this Leinster team isn't capable of beating La Rochelle at home?

Yep. Under normal service, we'd likely have had a run of home games to the final. That's not a lucky break, it's what you earn by winning the league and then your pool games.