Tiny margins

[enby]

Over the past 12 months we have lost 2 Heineken finals and 2 URC semis by an aggregate margin of 6 points. OK I know each game was different with teams of varying strength representing us in those games. We could have won each of those matches with the benefit of some luck or of the ref doing his job but in none of the games were we the better team who were "robbed" by fortunate opponents. With the possible exception of last year's URC defeat, we didn't play particularly badly in those games though.

What do we conclude from such an extraordinary sequence of close results? I haven't a clue tbh but I'm not buying in to the media consensus that the squad have a fear of their own shadow when it comes to the sharp end of the season. Bottlers they are not. It is a pattern that needs to be fully and honestly analysed by Leo et al, perhaps with the assistance of someone from outside the club


It is a cliche that winning while playing badly is the hallmark of champions. What about losing by a tiny margin when playing OK ?

[Flash Gordon]

We've won a lot of silverware in recent years to be fair. On the margins, you're right, they are tight. One failed drop goal attempt and we don't have a 4th star on our shirt. On playing badly, we threw one pass in the first half across the backline from 10 outwards, that's not how Leinster play so I'm not sure you can say we played well. We certainly lacked leadership without Sexton and Ryan on the pitch, last drive up the pitch kind of epitomised that - Baird open and ignored, not looking for field position for the drop goal, Big Mike's penalty. Ignoring the media cliches and generlisations which I've not read to be honest, you also have to be honest about where you are and why. Are we good enough to win a European cup? Absolutely.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

Over the past 12 months we have lost 2 Heineken finals and 2 URC semis by an aggregate margin of 6 points.

You're forgetting the core of the squad contributed to an historic away tour in NZ and an epic Grand Slam win. It's no coincidence that, post six nations, we are more than a little banjaxed with injuries and fatigue. We "didn't play well" in 2023s heino final or 2022s heino semi final either.

That's not an excuse - we were not the better team on a few occasions - but it is part of the explanation. If 12 or 13 Leinster players continue to be starting in the Irish team, with more in the 23, we will continue to fade at season end. I don't buy into the "bottlers" narrative.

Looking forward and for the same reason..I think we will really struggle in the december pool games for the heino this year, following the WC.

[curates_egg]

Baird open and ignored

How are people still claiming this? Someone posted a screengrab that totally misrepresented the situation.
Baird wasn't ignored: there was a LAR player lying all over the ball; as JGP was drying to dig it out, he got dragged into the ruck by a player on the ground; Baird then had to go in and secure the ball, as Skelton was causing havoc.

There were two missed penalties that could have gone to us. I don't think many refs want to give those penalties at the death, so I am not blaming the ref as such.

But, by the same token, it is totally wrong to blame us/JGP for missing an opportunity.

It was definitely a tiny margin that played against us though. But, based on our start, we shouldn't have been in the position where tiny margins count.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Baird open and ignored

How are people still claiming this? Someone posted a screengrab that totally misrepresented the situation.
Baird wasn't ignored: there was a LAR player lying all over the ball; as JGP was drying to dig it out, he got dragged into the ruck by a player on the ground; Baird then had to go in and secure the ball, as Skelton was causing havoc.

There were two missed penalties that could have gone to us. I don't think many refs want to give those penalties at the death, so I am not blaming the ref as such.

But, by the same token, it is totally wrong to blame us/JGP for missing an opportunity.

It was definitely a tiny margin that played against us though. But, based on our start, we shouldn't have been in the position where tiny margins count.

But here’s the thing. Peyper had no problem pinging Doris for hands on the ground in the final quarter, but won’t call whatever fat sack of black and yellow shite was lying over the ball in that picture. I absolutely blame a ref for not calling it, Peyper’s integrity very close to being tarnished as far as I am concerned.

And before the UL and UCC freshers start to pile in, I accept the result no matter how dodgy the reffing decisions were in the close out to the game, because THAT’s what rea rugby guys understand.

Oh and ROG and Aldritt have shown zero class…

[CiaranIrl]

Baird open and ignored

How are people still claiming this? Someone posted a screengrab that totally misrepresented the situation.
Baird wasn't ignored: there was a LAR player lying all over the ball; as JGP was drying to dig it out, he got dragged into the ruck by a player on the ground; Baird then had to go in and secure the ball, as Skelton was causing havoc.

There were two missed penalties that could have gone to us. I don't think many refs want to give those penalties at the death, so I am not blaming the ref as such.

But, by the same token, it is totally wrong to blame us/JGP for missing an opportunity.

It was definitely a tiny margin that played against us though. But, based on our start, we shouldn't have been in the position where tiny margins count.

Worth listening to Brian O'Driscolls's take on that in the off the ball podcast today. The issue is that Baird shouldn't have had to get into that ruck. Maloney or Jenkins or whoever nearby should have dealt with that ruck, not Baird.

[Flash Gordon]

Baird open and ignored

How are people still claiming this? Someone posted a screengrab that totally misrepresented the situation.
Baird wasn't ignored: there was a LAR player lying all over the ball; as JGP was drying to dig it out, he got dragged into the ruck by a player on the ground; Baird then had to go in and secure the ball, as Skelton was causing havoc.

There were two missed penalties that could have gone to us. I don't think many refs want to give those penalties at the death, so I am not blaming the ref as such.

But, by the same token, it is totally wrong to blame us/JGP for missing an opportunity.

It was definitely a tiny margin that played against us though. But, based on our start, we shouldn't have been in the position where tiny margins count.

Worth listening to Brian O'Driscolls's take on that in the off the ball podcast today. The issue is that Baird shouldn't have had to get into that ruck. Maloney or Jenkins or whoever nearby should have dealt with that ruck, not Baird.

Don't want to get into ref blaming but the ref did give penalties at the death. He missed a shoulder to the head on big mike before it too. We can't control that though I think with more leadership on the pitch you maybe make the ref aware of it.

The point on Baird joining the ruck is a good one, is there perhaps a question of what Jenkins delivered on the day? After all he was signed specifically to counter the type of power that we came up against vs La Rochelle.

Either way, as the title suggests, the margins are wafer thin. A ref call, a quick pass, a hand on the ball, a never engineered drop goal attempt, a moment of madness on the shoulder to head - all important in a one point match. And as I said earlier, Racing could have said the same when we beat them in the final.

[Dave Cahill]

Don't want to get into ref blaming but the ref did give penalties at the death. He missed a shoulder to the head on big mike before it too. We can't control that though I think with more leadership on the pitch you maybe make the ref aware of it.

If you're in the red zone and you get a shoulder to the head, you should go down like you've been injected with a massive dose of dreamy sleepy nighty snoozy snooze - preferably on top of the ball. i would recommend throwing ones arms out in front of one also. The pitchside doctor will force the ref to stop the game. Then you can get in his ear to review it.

[Observingprop123]

Don't want to get into ref blaming but the ref did give penalties at the death. He missed a shoulder to the head on big mike before it too. We can't control that though I think with more leadership on the pitch you maybe make the ref aware of it.

If you're in the red zone and you get a shoulder to the head, you should go down like you've been injected with a massive dose of dreamy sleepy nighty snoozy snooze - preferably on top of the ball. i would recommend throwing ones arms out in front of one also. The pitchside doctor will force the ref to stop the game. Then you can get in his ear to review it.

Problem is do we stick on a injured Furlong at tighthead for the last 10 minutes? Surely a HIA would have been done there. Refs need to be better there.

[Flash Gordon]

Don't want to get into ref blaming but the ref did give penalties at the death. He missed a shoulder to the head on big mike before it too. We can't control that though I think with more leadership on the pitch you maybe make the ref aware of it.

If you're in the red zone and you get a shoulder to the head, you should go down like you've been injected with a massive dose of dreamy sleepy nighty snoozy snooze - preferably on top of the ball. i would recommend throwing ones arms out in front of one also. The pitchside doctor will force the ref to stop the game. Then you can get in his ear to review it.

I hate this aspect of the game but it's unfortunately part of the game. La Rochelle used it to their advantage to slow the game down and take breaks very effectively. Refs need to deal with this, unless it's serious get off the pitch. You don't get to spend 3 minutes strapping your leg because you're fat and unfit.

[Twist]

Baird open and ignored

How are people still claiming this? Someone posted a screengrab that totally misrepresented the situation.
Baird wasn't ignored: there was a LAR player lying all over the ball; as JGP was drying to dig it out, he got dragged into the ruck by a player on the ground; Baird then had to go in and secure the ball, as Skelton was causing havoc.

There were two missed penalties that could have gone to us. I don't think many refs want to give those penalties at the death, so I am not blaming the ref as such.

But, by the same token, it is totally wrong to blame us/JGP for missing an opportunity.

It was definitely a tiny margin that played against us though. But, based on our start, we shouldn't have been in the position where tiny margins count.

Worth listening to Brian O'Driscolls's take on that in the off the ball podcast today. The issue is that Baird shouldn't have had to get into that ruck. Maloney or Jenkins or whoever nearby should have dealt with that ruck, not Baird.

Peyper should have dealt with it. I’ve said this on another thread but he was happy to police us in the build up to Colombres’ try. The same standard was not applied when we were attacking.

[curates_egg]

Baird open and ignored

How are people still claiming this? Someone posted a screengrab that totally misrepresented the situation.
Baird wasn't ignored: there was a LAR player lying all over the ball; as JGP was drying to dig it out, he got dragged into the ruck by a player on the ground; Baird then had to go in and secure the ball, as Skelton was causing havoc.

There were two missed penalties that could have gone to us. I don't think many refs want to give those penalties at the death, so I am not blaming the ref as such.

But, by the same token, it is totally wrong to blame us/JGP for missing an opportunity.

It was definitely a tiny margin that played against us though. But, based on our start, we shouldn't have been in the position where tiny margins count.

Worth listening to Brian O'Driscolls's take on that in the off the ball podcast today. The issue is that Baird shouldn't have had to get into that ruck. Maloney or Jenkins or whoever nearby should have dealt with that ruck, not Baird.

Even if they had (and Baird had stayed wide), the ball had already been killed and JGP had already been snagged.
For me, both were penalty offences.
But, even if they weren't, there was simply no "opportunity" (as implied by the screengrab), because there was no ball and then no scrum half.

I thought Jenkins was very underwhelming. Molony couldn't walk at that stage. He got injured defending their try and it was heroic of him to stay on the pitch.

[Dexter]

Don't worry about the long term. Both teams are very good and deservedly in the final, we were unlucky in both games and and got very little to go our way, LAR were lucky in both games and got everything to go their way. We lost by a point this year, and effectively by a point last year. Tiny, tiny, tiny margins. We'll be back and have OUR days.
I'm being simplistic, optimistic and looking thought my blue goggles, so please no replies with detailed analysis of why LAR won. I can't take any more of it.

[enby]

Dexter, have you not been reading your papers and listening to your radio? LAR won solely because they have this amazingly brilliant head coach who does everything perfectly every day of the year.

[LeinsterLeader]

Don't worry about the long term. Both teams are very good and deservedly in the final, we were unlucky in both games and and got very little to go our way, LAR were lucky in both games and got everything to go their way. We lost by a point this year, and effectively by a point last year. Tiny, tiny, tiny margins. We'll be back and have OUR days.
I'm being simplistic, optimistic and looking thought my blue goggles, so please no replies with detailed analysis of why LAR won. I can't take any more of it.

I agree with ye bud. It doesn't matter now. What's done is done. We are never going to be able to provide the heft that would be required to compete with LAR and enable us to go toe to toe in that area. We just have to keep on with what we have and try and get that little bit better so the next day, maybe, just maybe ....... we win by a point!

[jezzer]

Don't want to get into ref blaming but the ref did give penalties at the death. He missed a shoulder to the head on big mike before it too. We can't control that though I think with more leadership on the pitch you maybe make the ref aware of it.

If you're in the red zone and you get a shoulder to the head, you should go down like you've been injected with a massive dose of dreamy sleepy nighty snoozy snooze - preferably on top of the ball. i would recommend throwing ones arms out in front of one also. The pitchside doctor will force the ref to stop the game. Then you can get in his ear to review it.

I hate this aspect of the game but it's unfortunately part of the game. La Rochelle used it to their advantage to slow the game down and take breaks very effectively. Refs need to deal with this, unless it's serious get off the pitch. You don't get to spend 3 minutes strapping your leg because you're fat and unfit.

Cmon lads. It's not like we don't milk this stuff the same way all the time.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

oops. ignore.

[Twist]

Don't worry about the long term. Both teams are very good and deservedly in the final, we were unlucky in both games and and got very little to go our way, LAR were lucky in both games and got everything to go their way. We lost by a point this year, and effectively by a point last year. Tiny, tiny, tiny margins. We'll be back and have OUR days.
I'm being simplistic, optimistic and looking thought my blue goggles, so please no replies with detailed analysis of why LAR won. I can't take any more of it.

I agree we’ll get to the latter stages again. But next year we’ll pay a Lions-esque price for the WC. No team will be as badly effected as us. (Actually LAR will probably be the least effected contender!). I’d be particularly concerned for Furlong, the man needs a break. We won’t have Sexton in the coming seasons either

I do think we’ll reach another final but it might not be for a while

[Twist]

If you're in the red zone and you get a shoulder to the head, you should go down like you've been injected with a massive dose of dreamy sleepy nighty snoozy snooze - preferably on top of the ball. i would recommend throwing ones arms out in front of one also. The pitchside doctor will force the ref to stop the game. Then you can get in his ear to review it.

I hate this aspect of the game but it's unfortunately part of the game. La Rochelle used it to their advantage to slow the game down and take breaks very effectively. Refs need to deal with this, unless it's serious get off the pitch. You don't get to spend 3 minutes strapping your leg because you're fat and unfit.

Cmon lads. It's not like we don't milk this stuff the same way all the time.

Well we didn’t milk that shot to Mike’s head

[FLIP]

Don't worry about the long term. Both teams are very good and deservedly in the final, we were unlucky in both games and and got very little to go our way, LAR were lucky in both games and got everything to go their way. We lost by a point this year, and effectively by a point last year. Tiny, tiny, tiny margins. We'll be back and have OUR days.
I'm being simplistic, optimistic and looking thought my blue goggles, so please no replies with detailed analysis of why LAR won. I can't take any more of it.

I agree we’ll get to the latter stages again. But next year we’ll pay a Lions-esque price for the WC. No team will be as badly effected as us. (Actually LAR will probably be the least effected contender!). I’d be particularly concerned for Furlong, the man needs a break. We won’t have Sexton in the coming seasons either

I do think we’ll reach another final but it might not be for a while

I think maybe we need to rebuild the winning ways. Two seasons in a row we've not won anything (apart from the Irish shield, but nobody counts that) but we've been close. So we go full on for the URC. Winning the league in 2008 set us up for our tilt to win our first HC in 2009. So let's make sure we win it this coming season and if we get to the business end of the season we don't hold back if we have a HC final the following week - get the boys to blow the opposition off the park and then sub off those deemed valuable once the game is safe if needs be.