Leinster v Munster URC Semi Final Aviva Stadium Sat 13th 5.30pm

[TheThreeJays]

I know you are all a bit one eyed *** Edited by mod *** down there but that still doesn't account for what a crock that is. All the critical decisions at critical moments from the yellow card in the first few minutes to the scrums, offsides, off feet, you name it went your way. I defy any man to find another reffing performance like it.

[CiaranIrl]

What we need is a rabid Rassie Erasmus style video montage. That'll fix everything.

Time to move on lads. We screwed it up. Especially that last 4 minutes.

[ronk]

I know you are all a bit one eyed because of the...

That's entirely not ok to say.

[the spoofer]

Murray K does a good piece on the sequence leading up to the drop goal. He notes the two penalty offences but the main thing to take away was our awful passive defence.

Going back to the Baird "try". I watched it back on ATH last night, freeze framed it and slomo'd it and its still not clear and obvious that the ball hit Tommy O'Briens hand. It's actually no where near "clear and obvious".

Anyway, as Stu said it's SUMO time.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I know you are all a bit one eyed because of the...

That's entirely not ok to say.

Agreed. I see its already being reported.

[munster#1]

Murray K does a good piece on the sequence leading up to the drop goal. He notes the two penalty offences but the main thing to take away was our awful passive defence.

Going back to the Baird "try". I watched it back on ATH last night, freeze framed it and slomo'd it and its still not clear and obvious that the ball hit Tommy O'Briens hand. It's actually no where near "clear and obvious".

Anyway, as Stu said it's SUMO time.

I know Murphy is unlikely to get much credit on here this week, but he seemed to be of the same opinion as you.
He asked the TMO a few times if he was sure.

Perhaps the TMO had a better angle than what was shown?

[FtD]

Murray K does a good piece on the sequence leading up to the drop goal. He notes the two penalty offences but the main thing to take away was our awful passive defence.

Going back to the Baird "try". I watched it back on ATH last night, freeze framed it and slomo'd it and its still not clear and obvious that the ball hit Tommy O'Briens hand. It's actually no where near "clear and obvious".

Anyway, as Stu said it's SUMO time.

Tbf - it was clear the players were out on their feet at that stage.

It's that sequence of play, and it's a microcosm of the whole game, that sum up Murphy's refereeing performance for me.

The Scannell crossing decision was clear and obvious and clearly creates space. If it hadn't been the end game, it would have been called.

But the Josh Wycherley flopping off his feet, clearly denying Charlie Ngatai a turnover attempt, is as blatant as you'll ever see. Murphy is right there, and completely ignores it. Penalty there, and the game is over.

In the very next sequence after that, TOB is clearly on the ball as well, no penalty given.

By far the most egregious is the clear and blatant hands on the ground in the ruck from Scannell & O'Donoghue, which comes literally 1 phase before the drop goal. It's blatantly obvious, and JVDF is screaming for it. There is no other conceivable explanation for how they got that ball back, and the referee is right there looking at it.

[Hippo]

Munster conceded 5 penalties in the whole match. Is that the fewest by any team anywhere ever? It may not be but it can't be far off. Either their discipline improved dramatically on the day from its usual level or the ref was at least marginally sympathetic. In any event, I can't wait for the next Munster encounter, there's a score to be settled now.

[the spoofer]

Murray K does a good piece on the sequence leading up to the drop goal. He notes the two penalty offences but the main thing to take away was our awful passive defence.

Going back to the Baird "try". I watched it back on ATH last night, freeze framed it and slomo'd it and its still not clear and obvious that the ball hit Tommy O'Briens hand. It's actually no where near "clear and obvious".

Anyway, as Stu said it's SUMO time.

I know Murphy is unlikely to get much credit on here this week, but he seemed to be of the same opinion as you.
He asked the TMO a few times if he was sure.

Perhaps the TMO had a better angle than what was shown?

We had a perfect angle. It is not "clear and obvious". Unless the ref said either "onfield no try" or "onfield no decision" then the try should have stood. TMO shouldn't have worked off guess work or balance of probability.

[Dave Cahill]

Literally, and I mean literally, the first thing I was told on the first day of the first refereeing course I ever did was 'Don't guess, know'.

[brotheroffrank]

I dont think we have a thread for any other referee. I dont see why we would want one for Frank Murphy.

I think we need one now haha

I know, I re-opened the "Frank Murphy" thread elsewhere, as I suspected the outcome last Saturday, one way or the other, might revolve around Frank Murphy's calls/interpretation and was surprised there was no thread since he became a Ref (sorry Logorrhea, I count at least 9 others about Refs!). When he was playing rugby Frank Murphy deservedly had a thread of his own. I wasn't happy with the officiating during the game (like many others) [I also questioned some of the AR/TMO calls from where I sat, both teams were affected]; so now, a few days later, on the match thread, here's my tuppence ha'penny...

Ref's have a tough job and they/the Officiating team can anticipate a certain amount of supporter comment (praise and/or criticism).

There are two issues Frank Murphy seems to have as a referee that keep him featuring on particular match threads (one feeds the other):
1. URC have Frank Murphy regularly reffing Irish interprovincials - having played for two provinces (and been a teammate of Leo Cullens) he then gets accused (by disgruntled supporters) of Bias. I don't perceive him displaying bias (either conscious or unconscious) as a referee. Mistakes do not equate to bias (not even when applying hindsight). I have read threads of previous matches Frank has reffed (on this forum and others); a referee cannot be biased both for and against each and every one of all four provinces. It was a URC decision to appoint Frank to Saturday's game. URC could have appointed another Ref [If Holly Davidson had reffed the URC semi-final between two Irish teams the focus would (likely) have shifted completely away from the discussion we now have about Frank Murphy (on various media channels) and (perhaps even if she made the same number of mistakes as Saturday's Officials), have shifted in a positive way for all involved - maybe that appointment is just "a season too soon"].
2. The main thing players want from a Ref (and AR's) is consistency. Players respect that in a Ref. When offside, interference at the breakdown, tackle height, etc, become an officiating lottery it doesn't help anyone. I agree with letting the game flow, but its a (very difficult) fine line; sometimes referees don't see everything going on, don't get prompted by the AR's/TMO and don't get decisions right.

Rather than the ongoing negativity surrounding certain decisions last Saturday, (a negativity I felt at the time) might we move on from Frank Murphy comments? (I acknowledge the juxtaposition/irony of that given I re-ignited the "Frank Murphy " thread!)

Referees/Officials will make mistakes; players (& supporters) do too. Do we prefer threads that focus on criticism of individual decisions on the pitch, (players and/or officials?) or those giving credit for willingness to take to the field?

One of the core values of rugby is respect; can we try to keep that in mind in our comments?

As we supporters encourage, appreciate and applaud the next generation of players, how will we also encourage the next generation of Referee's (and give them a positive vision of their role)? Without them what kind of game will we have...?

[and - full disclosure - that comment comes from someone who has whistled/been in the middle of the park years ago (at a much, much, lower level)] We have a "where did you play" thread active, lets not get so focused on the decisions last Saturday that our comments hinder a formerly good player from swapping a Gumshield for a Whistle...sometimes that ex-player might, perhaps, become a good ref!

[sunshiner1]

by Blue Man


I hate losing to the turnips but people need to park the whinging about the ref.

Agreed. We were taking the p*ss out of the Gloucester fans earlier this year for their whinging and we (I included) have thrown our toys out of the pram at the ref after we loss a game. Good luck to Munster I hope they bring the URC trophy home.

[the spoofer]

The best part of Saturday was the lovely send off Dev got. That was class.

[heno]

At the end of the day, would it be possible to find anywhere in the world a sports fan who thinks a referee for a big game who actually played for one of the teams a fair and reasonable proposal?
We talk about the Urc maturing into a respected top league, but referee appointments like that will only further the rinkadink reputation and never ending threads about whether the referee was or wasn't biased.
It was wrong when it was Alan Rolland and it's wrong now with Frank.

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[FLIP]

At the end of the day, would it be possible to find anywhere in the world a sports fan who thinks a referee for a big game who actually played for one of the teams a fair and reasonable proposal?
We talk about the Urc maturing into a respected top league, but referee appointments like that will only further the rinkadink reputation and never ending threads about whether the referee was or wasn't biased.
It was wrong when it was Alan Rolland and it's wrong now with Frank.

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At least Rolland had integrity.

[The Doc]

Lads... It's the Tuesday after the game. Can we all stop f%~king whining about opposition living on the edge, the other fans gloating and officials not giving us the calls. Cause you'll never guess what's coming up next Saturday.

The team need to work out and react to the game on the field including the ref and opposition. We didn't do that well enough last week and if we don't do it better this weekend we'll lose again.

The best we can do is convert the whining into as loud a roar as possible



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[riocard911]

Lads... It's the Tuesday after the game. Can we all stop f%~king whining about opposition living on the edge, the other fans gloating and officials not giving us the calls. Cause you'll never guess what's coming up next Saturday.

The team need to work out and react to the game on the field including the ref and opposition. We didn't do that well enough last week and if we don't do it better this weekend we'll lose again.

The best we can do is convert the whining into as loud a roar as possible



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+1!!!

[paddyor]

Lads... It's the Tuesday after the game. Can we all stop f%~king whining about opposition living on the edge, the other fans gloating and officials not giving us the calls. Cause you'll never guess what's coming up next Saturday.

The team need to work out and react to the game on the field including the ref and opposition. We didn't do that well enough last week and if we don't do it better this weekend we'll lose again.

The best we can do is convert the whining into as loud a roar as possible



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Yeah, it's time to move on.

[Oldschool]

Is it time for the introduction of AI TMOs.
Definitely something the IRB should be looking at for the future.

[Jame Slowe]

I know you are all a bit one eyed *** Edited by mod *** down there but that still doesn't account for what a crock that is. All the critical decisions at critical moments from the yellow card in the first few minutes to the scrums, offsides, off feet, you name it went your way. I defy any man to find another reffing performance like it.

Munster 20 offloads, Leinster 3, damn you Frank Murphy!! Damn you to hell!