Leinster v Munster URC Semi Final Aviva Stadium Sat 13th 5.30pm

[desperado]

by ronk

He's been picked to do a Munster match against us 4 of the last 5 years. And the year he didn't was heavily disrupted by Covid.

That's not because he's the most impartial person they could find, it's because he's not.

If this is true can we go to the URC/IRFU and tell them in the politest possible way that he can f**k off cause we don't want him? Shouldn't there be some rotation of refs/linesman in these derbies?

To what end? The IRFU isn't a benevolent neutral governing body, it's made up of factions who sometimes (to some extent) push the agenda of their club or province. It's the only way Munster have been able to get away with some of the things they do.

Anyway, there is rotation, he just gets a lot of these games at key times. Sometimes it's worse than others. One thing I noticed from the last time we had him down in Thomond Park was just how frustrated and angry Munster fans were with him, which put him under a lot more pressure as he has to live down there with that everyday.

If it wasn't him it would be another Munster branch ref, because there are more of them than Leinster branch refs. When there's a prospect Munster facing Leinster refs reffing Leinster then there'll be an incentive for the unfairness of the system to be recognised.

Why? Even taking the 3 officials yesterday; Murphy, Brace, and Busby. Why not Busby?

[desperado]

I had forgotten how much it hurts to lose a serious game against Munster. First thought I had when I woke this morning. Infinitely more painful than the Bulls last year.

We won’t even remember this game if we are celebrating 5 next week.

Honestly this one stings and while yes the big prize is next week we should not be losing to this Munster side. It's not good prep for next weekend mentally and at the end of a long season where we were comfortably the best side in the URC we have absolutely nothing to show for it.

+1. I've always though the whole play-off thing in a league (not just after this) is a bit much. Especially if you go down the route of having half (8) with a shot in the playoffs. A league is a league, and the winners should be the most consistent team over the campaign. Maybe have the top 2 or at a stretch 4 playoff. The amount of graft, and hard work put in over the tough months, training, travelling, etc etc by the larger squad for zero at the end is sickening. I get the whole excitement of knockouts, keeping more punters interested for longer, more cash etc...but if you're good enough to be involved in both tournaments right to the pointy end the schedule is overloaded with games back to back.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

watched the game again this morning. I think our lads will be kicking themselves in the monday review meeting. here's hoping it's uses as a motivational kick in the arse for next weekend.

fair play to munster. they played out of their skins and deserve to be heading to cape town.

gutted we lost but happy to see munster try to play rugby the leinster way, for a change. under van graan and rassie, they were dour to watch and going nowhere, really.

looking forward, I think it's going to get more difficult for teams, not just Leinster, to compete on two fronts at this time of the season. So maybe the European cup finals should move to after domestic league finals for premiership, URC and Top 14?

[Hoofhearted]

Sometimes in life you are the nail and other times the hammer. Yesterday Leinster were the nail. It happens. Let's move on. The officials were poor but that's not the reason we lost. They were poor for Munster too.

Congratulations to Munster, I hope they win it now.

When we win the HC next weekend this will all be forgotten.

[johng]

Seriously not ideal from a Leinster point of view. But fair play to Munster they just wanted it more and were good value for their win. Be great to see them knock over the stormers in 2 weeks.

Who knows. They get all their players back rested.

[dirtyshirt]

Both teams played there hearts out and congrats to Munster who got the victory in the end. However the match officiating team were indeed well below par and in this I blame both the URC and the refereeing organisation who supplied the officials, as the officials certainly appeared out of their depth in this game. Please don't repeat this folly as it only reflects badly on the competition.

[blaker]

I actually think the TMO gave the KO not Frank. Frank seemed to be on the fence and asked quite clearly if the TMO was telling him KO.

Between that and the Zapruder film replays for Joes try v the non coverage of Munsters or the Haley tackle on TOB - damn French TV directors

[backrower8]

There were lots of decisions that frustratingly didn't go our way (a fwd pass from Frisch attacking our 22 under the East Stand was verbally waved on by Frank; then the pass to Hodnett under their posts prior to their drive upfiled for the drop was a metre fwd and Frank close by; the non-awarding of a scum penalty; the confusuion between Frank and Harry on the final restart leading to an overrun by Baird who had nothing to do with us winning the restart legally)...

...but we lost because we weren't good (cohesive) enough in a very tight contest. Prior to the KO, Wig made the point that they were battle-hardened after tough away victories in SA and Glasgow - that made them more cohesive than us, who were chopping and changing for the last few weeks. But we still had 13 internatiomals starting, a few more on the bench and 11/12 of the 23 that we would expect to be involved in the biggest one next week.

Tight margins again folks. There is no shame or wrongdoing in Stucaster's selection for yesterday.

Well done Munster.

[Hippo]

Well that was tough to watch.

A poor overall performance and I thought Luke as captain didn't do enough to steer the ship. Our kicking game was pretty ordinary too. The officiating was awful, not just the big calls (the Connors hit) but the marginal stuff like the Healy knock-on following Deegan's rip on our line (small, but as much of a knock-on as for the disallowed try), the reset scrums, Coombes's steal etc etc. Nevertheless if Frawley nails that conversion then I'm pretty sure we win the match and I still can't understand why he was taking the kick.

Have to avoid the meeja for the next few days, I'm sure GT & co are wetting themselves.

[Dexter]

The team really screwed up in that last few minutes when we got the pen, some time after the 70th minute. With the right decisions and execution they had the game won, despite the missed conversion. Go for the posts and get it, game won. Go for the posts and miss it, a dropout and stay in Munster territory. Go down the line and win a clean lineout, game won.
The only way to lose it was to go down the line, mess up the lineout and compound it by conceding a pen, then compound it further with passive tackling and allowing territory. From recollection that's pretty much what happened. If they didn't go for the DG Frank would have given them a pen anyway.
So for all the talk about Munster, the lads wil probably see it as a game they threw away in the last few minutes.

[sunshiner1]

by ronk » May 14th, 2023, 10:12 am

sunshiner1 wrote: ↑May 14th, 2023, 9:29 am

by ronk

He's been picked to do a Munster match against us 4 of the last 5 years. And the year he didn't was heavily disrupted by Covid.

That's not because he's the most impartial person they could find, it's because he's not.

If this is true can we go to the URC/IRFU and tell them in the politest possible way that he can f**k off cause we don't want him? Shouldn't there be some rotation of refs/linesman in these derbies?

To what end? The IRFU isn't a benevolent neutral governing body, it's made up of factions who sometimes (to some extent) push the agenda of their club or province. It's the only way Munster have been able to get away with some of the things they do.

Anyway, there is rotation, he just gets a lot of these games at key times. Sometimes it's worse than others. One thing I noticed from the last time we had him down in Thomond Park was just how frustrated and angry Munster fans were with him, which put him under a lot more pressure as he has to live down there with that everyday.

If it wasn't him it would be another Munster branch ref, because there are more of them than Leinster branch refs. When there's a prospect Munster facing Leinster refs reffing Leinster then there'll be an incentive for the unfairness of the system to be recognised

You telling me Leinster don't have influence either? Regardless the game is done. Congrats to Munster and I will be cheering them on against the Stormers when they play.

[Bigdickenergy]

The Munster turnover right on the goal line as Leinster were about to score was the one REALLY egregious one from Murphy. 7 points were a near certainty right there and Archer blatantly charges in offside. Absolute stone wall yellow card.

[Blueberry]

If this is true can we go to the URC/IRFU and tell them in the politest possible way that he can f**k off cause we don't want him? Shouldn't there be some rotation of refs/linesman in these derbies?

To what end? The IRFU isn't a benevolent neutral governing body, it's made up of factions who sometimes (to some extent) push the agenda of their club or province. It's the only way Munster have been able to get away with some of the things they do.

Anyway, there is rotation, he just gets a lot of these games at key times. Sometimes it's worse than others. One thing I noticed from the last time we had him down in Thomond Park was just how frustrated and angry Munster fans were with him, which put him under a lot more pressure as he has to live down there with that everyday.

If it wasn't him it would be another Munster branch ref, because there are more of them than Leinster branch refs. When there's a prospect Munster facing Leinster refs reffing Leinster then there'll be an incentive for the unfairness of the system to be recognised.

Why? Even taking the 3 officials yesterday; Murphy, Brace, and Busby. Why not Busby?

For an Irish Derby semi final the ref should not be Irish. Should be from overseas. It is appalling from an actual and optical view. URC need to look at this. They don't have much to do to protect the integrity of a competition but what happened yesterday is unacceptable.

[neiliog93]

The Munster turnover right on the goal line as Leinster were about to score was the one REALLY egregious one from Murphy. 7 points were a near certainty right there and Archer blatantly charges in offside. Absolute stone wall yellow card.

Yeah this one was unbelievable. Changed the game.

[paddyor]

The team really screwed up in that last few minutes when we got the pen, some time after the 70th minute. With the right decisions and execution they had the game won, despite the missed conversion. Go for the posts and get it, game won. Go for the posts and miss it, a dropout and stay in Munster territory. Go down the line and win a clean lineout, game won.
The only way to lose it was to go down the line, mess up the lineout and compound it by conceding a pen, then compound it further with passive tackling and allowing territory. From recollection that's pretty much what happened. If they didn't go for the DG Frank would have given them a pen anyway.
So for all the talk about Munster, the lads wil probably see it as a game they threw away in the last few minutes.

Yeah we really screwed it up.

https://twitter.com/murray_kinsella/sta ... Yqay0UDEQQ

[Observingprop123]

The team really screwed up in that last few minutes when we got the pen, some time after the 70th minute. With the right decisions and execution they had the game won, despite the missed conversion. Go for the posts and get it, game won. Go for the posts and miss it, a dropout and stay in Munster territory. Go down the line and win a clean lineout, game won.
The only way to lose it was to go down the line, mess up the lineout and compound it by conceding a pen, then compound it further with passive tackling and allowing territory. From recollection that's pretty much what happened. If they didn't go for the DG Frank would have given them a pen anyway.
So for all the talk about Munster, the lads wil probably see it as a game they threw away in the last few minutes.

I think you should concentrate on how poor our defence was between the 75th and 77th minute, we gave munster easy access to our 22 from their 22. We kicked to the corner so atleast if we didn't score we had territory and Munster had to work the whole way up the pitch. A cheap knock and then a woeful possession screwed us there. Can complain about refs all you want but letting that happen wasn't acceptable.

[Dexter]

The team really screwed up in that last few minutes when we got the pen, some time after the 70th minute. With the right decisions and execution they had the game won, despite the missed conversion. Go for the posts and get it, game won. Go for the posts and miss it, a dropout and stay in Munster territory. Go down the line and win a clean lineout, game won.
The only way to lose it was to go down the line, mess up the lineout and compound it by conceding a pen, then compound it further with passive tackling and allowing territory. From recollection that's pretty much what happened. If they didn't go for the DG Frank would have given them a pen anyway.
So for all the talk about Munster, the lads wil probably see it as a game they threw away in the last few minutes.

I think you should concentrate on how poor our defence was between the 75th and 77th minute, we gave munster easy access to our 22 from their 22. We kicked to the corner so atleast if we didn't score we had territory and Munster had to work the whole way up the pitch. A cheap knock and then a woeful possession screwed us there. Can complain about refs all you want but letting that happen wasn't acceptable.

Yeah that's part of the point I was making actually.. I agree. I didn't mention the ref in that post, apart from a hypothetical comment.

[ronk]

On rewatch, we just couldn't get out from under advantage. We could have been more disciplined but you can generally see Munster getting more adventurous with the laws as they saw what they could get away with.

It was a lot harder for us to earn a penalty and it had to be clean.

It's frustrating, winning was in our control but it was an awful lot harder. I thought we made some good steals in mauls and stripped in tackles. We were very close to winning and while Munster made us bend, they really struggled to break us in defence.

Their defence was also good and they restricted us, but what really was better for them was just having so much possession in our half. They've improved, and a big part of that was Crowley.

[Blueberry]

The team really screwed up in that last few minutes when we got the pen, some time after the 70th minute. With the right decisions and execution they had the game won, despite the missed conversion. Go for the posts and get it, game won. Go for the posts and miss it, a dropout and stay in Munster territory. Go down the line and win a clean lineout, game won.
The only way to lose it was to go down the line, mess up the lineout and compound it by conceding a pen, then compound it further with passive tackling and allowing territory. From recollection that's pretty much what happened. If they didn't go for the DG Frank would have given them a pen anyway.
So for all the talk about Munster, the lads wil probably see it as a game they threw away in the last few minutes.

I have absolutely no issue with our weaknesses and poor play being highlighted and after the Clarkson knock on Munster got all too easy access to our 22 but it should never have been an issue if the game had been reffed properly.

In that final few minutes Healy monstered Salanoa in a scrum in a very kick able spot which was 3 pts with any other ref. We also had the Archer nonsense on the goal line and just prior to the drop goal right in front of Frank (he was literally 3 ft from it) a Munster forward went right off his feet and dived over a ruck.
Clear as day penalty. Players ain't stupid and by the time that final Munster drive was in full flow we were desperately trying to avoid giving Murphy any reason to ping us and Munster were taking liberties.

Yes control what you can control and in hindsight we needed a little more on the bench and not the likes of Nick and Clarkson coming on and that IS entirely our fault.

On a watchback today the Murphy performance was even worse than I remember on the day. He reffed the game just like I have seen so many times with 'home or Dad' refs in underage rugby. They blow the whistle for clear and obvious stuff from either side, blow the whistle for any infringements or possible infringements from the away side but find a way to introduce grey areas in much of the home team play and ignore grey areas such as offside, ruck infringements, obstruction, high tackles and many scrum and lineout infringements too. Best way to describe it is they have a higher threshold for a penalty to be awarded against the home team, it has to be really obvious for the home team to be pinged.....from years of coaching underage rugby have seen this a zillion times. Frank has reffed like this before with us and yesterday was a masterpiece in 'Dad' reffing.

What I can criticise Leinster and Leo for was not having a bit more on the bench especially knowing Frank was on the whistle.

Anyway enough b1tching.

Bottom line for me is having watched the game back is Murphy was very poor, the URC have no business having him reffing an Irish Derby semi final and that is my view on it. We let ourselves down by not going a bit deeper on the bench and that is our fault. The two things conspired to lose us the game.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Word of advice for everyone, don’t quit the forum while Frank is still reffing. It’s been over 24 hours and I still haven’t been able to vent properly, just a matter of time before I explode.

But congrats to Munster and best of luck in the final.