Leinster v Leicester - Aviva Stadium - Good Friday - 8pm

[ronk]

I thought Leicester were a good side who caused us trouble in a few areas, but were beaten too well in a few, especially scrum and midfield defence.

They'd have beaten other teams, so they can lament being stuck playing us. They lost their coach to international promotion and their domestic league fell over hard with 2 teams folding and others at risk. Getting anything out of their season after that was gonna be hard.

Much rather see Leicester win something than Saracens or La Rochelle, they at least were built on foundations of success and support.

Our model is a success for us, it wouldn't be for them. England were earlier to adopt professional structures and the IRFU only had to partly manage 4 teams.

There were lots of mistakes along the way but the big two were turning their backs on Sky Sports/Heineken Cup and forcing all the clubs to have 10k stadia when they didn't (all) have the audiences for it.

[hugonaut]

Super win against the English champions. Really impressed with the one-sided second half after a very physical first half. Lots of blood spilled in that first forty, a very hard-fought opening period.

Exceptional performance from Jimmy O'Brien, who justified his selection on the right wing. He dealt very well with the aerial threat of Freddie Steward and was a really dangerous running and passing threat for the whole game. Just like against Racing in January, he was very close to being MOTM.

I thought that he was a little lucky to get the nod ahead of Larmour, while recognising that his fullback skills would be very useful in a match like this. But as it turned out, he put in a performance which mixed that high ball excellence with brilliant attacking play and we got the best of both facets from him.

Leicester had a lot of talent and experience out there in their backline in Watson, Steward, Pollard, Brown – guys who have been Lions, been named in World Rugby's International team of the season, World Cup winners, Six Nations POTT winners – and weren't adventurous enough in attack, given the calm conditions. They didn't really showcase the best of what they had. But Ringrose was out of this world. He looked a step ahead of every other player on the pitch, a different class. He carved them open practically every time he got the ball.

[Oldschool]

JOB is Leinster's version of Hansen.
He'll be very close to the Ireland 23 Jersey come RWC.

[Ruckedtobits]

JOB is Leinster's version of Hansen.
He'll be very close to the Ireland 23 Jersey come RWC.

+1

[Twist]

As Big Dai said, not an even playing field. If anyone really expected our club side with salary cap, injuries, etc and a tough league
competition week after week to compete with a Provincial team, made up of most of the Irish national team, rested and kept just for this competition, they were dreaming. Their pack has just won them the 6Ns how on earth could any mere club side hope to beat them and in the bear pit that is Dublin?

I liked the “tough league” part too.

[Keith]

As Big Dai said, not an even playing field. If anyone really expected our club side with salary cap, injuries, etc and a tough league
competition week after week to compete with a Provincial team, made up of most of the Irish national team, rested and kept just for this competition, they were dreaming. Their pack has just won them the 6Ns how on earth could any mere club side hope to beat them and in the bear pit that is Dublin?

I liked the “tough league” part too.

I genuinely can't believe they are still peddling this nonsense. Not only is it obviously wrong but it's completely disrespectful to the URC teams and the league.

[bigswingingphil]

"Obviously it's a little easier going to France, but I think it's probably one of the anomalies that we've got to try to iron out in these end stages to make it fair across the board, a little bit like you've got to iron out an anomaly like a team having three or four home fixtures in a row like Leinster are going to have."
Did nobody explain the rules to Rob before the tournament began?

[LeinsterLeader]

Interesting to remember this too, from Rory Keane in the mail on Sunday......

"It was a few hours after the final whistle of the 2019 Champions Cup final and Leo Cullen was deep in the throes of St James' Park speaking to the Irish media.

Leinster, the defending champions, had just lost 20-10 in a thrilling European decider, a star-studded Saracens team simply had too much power.

The Londoners had a monstrous pack, featuring Maro Itoje, the Vunipola brothers, Jamie George and giant Wallaby wrecking ball Will Skelton. When they needed reinforcements in the second half, they were able to bring the Springbok pair of Vincent Koch and Schalk Burger into the fray as well as Nick Isiekwe, another England international.

It was put to Cullen that maybe some aggressive recruitment in the transfer market would be needed to keep pace with the Premiership giants. How could a group of primarily homegrown Irish players - with a few key signings - possibly compete with a team like that?

Cullen's riposte that night in Newcastle was instructive.

'We're in a different model to what they (Saracens) have, so we just need to get on with that and keep investing in a lot of young guys,' said the Leinster head coach."

[riocard911]

Interesting to remember this too, from Rory Keane in the mail on Sunday......

"It was a few hours after the final whistle of the 2019 Champions Cup final and Leo Cullen was deep in the throes of St James' Park speaking to the Irish media.

Leinster, the defending champions, had just lost 20-10 in a thrilling European decider, a star-studded Saracens team simply had too much power.

The Londoners had a monstrous pack, featuring Maro Itoje, the Vunipola brothers, Jamie George and giant Wallaby wrecking ball Will Skelton. When they needed reinforcements in the second half, they were able to bring the Springbok pair of Vincent Koch and Schalk Burger into the fray as well as Nick Isiekwe, another England international.

Leinster
7 April 2023; James Ryan of Leinster celebrates his side's penalty try during the Heineken Champions Cup quarter-final match between Leinster and Leicester Tigers at the Aviva Stadium in Dublin. Pic: Ramsey Cardy/Sportsfile
It was put to Cullen that maybe some aggressive recruitment in the transfer market would be needed to keep pace with the Premiership giants. How could a group of primarily homegrown Irish players - with a few key signings - possibly compete with a team like that?

Cullen's riposte that night in Newcastle was instructive.

'We're in a different model to what they (Saracens) have, so we just need to get on with that and keep investing in a lot of young guys,' said the Leinster head coach."

"In Leo we trust" - it's the Leinster Way!

[LeinsterLeader]

...

[OTT]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 25474.html


I had watched a bit of the post match press conference on Leinster tv but it didn’t have this interaction up. Leo is class as always.

“Not long ago we were having the conversation about the gulf between us and other teams, French teams in particular, so you know what I mean?” he began.


“Obviously, English rugby is going through a tricky patch at the moment, so they’ve had to shrink their budgets off the back of what’s going on in the game and clubs going out of business. So, that’s probably called what, sensible business?

“I don’t know. We’re just focussing on what we can. I always think we’re only scratching the surface of the potential we have.

“One of the things leading into this season we were probable most conscious of, if you think back to the tail-end of last season, where we were struggling for crowds.

“If you remember we had 6,000 against Glasgow and whatever it was 9 or 10,000 against the Bulls, so we had to have a good look at ourselves because there’s some sort of disconnect there.

“So, are we not doing enough to get out and about, and really engage with supporters and in the 12-county part of Leinster, maybe we weren’t doing enough in that space, so we tried to push that.

“So that’s what I am focussed on. I’m not really focussed on what other teams are doing or what other teams are saying. I’m focussed on what we can do, what we can do better because that’s what’s in our control, so we’ll continue to do that.

“What other teams say is sort of wasted energy for me commenting on it even, isn’t it?”

Cullen was then asked what he feels Leinster now do better than they used to before he took over in 2016.


“I think we’re fortunate that we’ve got a great staff,” he said.

“There’s a group of people there that are unbelievably passionate about the team.

“We’ve players that are unbelievably passionate about playing for Leinster which is what you want and that’s probably a legacy piece over time because it’s not that long ago, 20 years ago in 2003, we lost a semi-final here against Perpignan and I was involved in the game, but to the point where you were a little bit ashamed to walk our your front door because under-achieved.

“We were watching other provinces lift European Cups, Ulster in the late 90s, and that’s off the back of Ulster winning ten interpros in a row in the 1980s or '90s, which is when I started watching rugby.

"So, that's my formative years of watching rugby which was complete domination by Ulster.

"More recently, if you think about that period in 2003; Munster were the dominant province in Ireland, weren't they?

“We got beaten by Perpignan that day 20 years ago. I have that programme somewhere, I can tell you exactly where it is; it's on my desk. They stick in the memory.

"People have short memories, unfortunately I have a long one.

"It's a moment in time, isn't it?

"In terms of the coaching piece, the coaches are working with the players today and there was a group of coaches training this morning.

"There is a huge amount of work going into it and that's not by accident either.

"There's a number of young guys; Academy and sub-Academy players with Stuart, Robin, Andrew Goodman, all the Academy coaches out there delivering a session on Friday morning, going through all of the things we want to deliver on over the next couple of weeks with that group.

"It's hard work, there's no secret to success. You've got to have guys who are willing to put in hard work and the minute you get complacent there's somebody else waiting to take your spot.

"What would you say Ulster's domination in the 1980s and '90s was based on? Probably a really strong group of players who worked hard for each other and that's what we're trying to create here and have all the time, a strong group of players who want to work hard for each other.

"It's not rocket science.

"Munster? What was that based on? A strong group of players who worked really hard for each other.

"We were hugely envious of that at the time, they had domination for 10-12 years.

"Yeah, people have funny memories haven't they?"

[Flash Gordon]

Why are so many Irish rugby fans embarrassed about budgets? Irish provinces have large budgets because Irish rugby is really well run financially with a completely integrated pyramid system that benefits and grows the game from the grassroots through to the international game. We worked for it, we earned it, let's not be shy about it. If others are jealous because THE SYSTEM THEY CHOSE FOR THEMSELVES is shite, f%~k 'em.

The English mantra seems to be “our system is broken, your system works, therefore you must adopt our system.”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Europe isn't working for us, we're not competitive so therefore let's try and break Europe. It's peak Brexit mentality.

Ireland were absolute muck in the 90's so we put in place a system of player development to address the issue knowing that we couldn't compete with France and England financially. It was based upon a sustainable player development model and it's worked for both Ireland and our clubs.

English rugby thought the Premiership was going to be like the Premier League in terms of revenue but it isn't anything close to that, to quote Nigel, this is not soccer. Soccer is a game played by millions, rugby is a minority sport 2 English clubs went bust this year and many more are teetering on the brink and the national team is no longer successful. Clearly they need to fix their issues, blaming us or the French for having models that give us an advantage is kind of pathetic. It was particularly hilarious listening to Wigglesworth whining about an unfair advantage given that he played on a team that financially cheated it's way to European victory.

[Schumi]

It's funny to see Leo talking about that Perpignan game, I was thinking about that (and the 2005 quarter final when Leicester blew us away) on the way into the game on Friday. I have that programme somewhere too I think, with the awful Leinster Lions branding!

[tigerburnie]

Super win against the English champions. Really impressed with the one-sided second half after a very physical first half. Lots of blood spilled in that first forty, a very hard-fought opening period.

Exceptional performance from Jimmy O'Brien, who justified his selection on the right wing. He dealt very well with the aerial threat of Freddie Steward and was a really dangerous running and passing threat for the whole game. Just like against Racing in January, he was very close to being MOTM.

I thought that he was a little lucky to get the nod ahead of Larmour, while recognising that his fullback skills would be very useful in a match like this. But as it turned out, he put in a performance which mixed that high ball excellence with brilliant attacking play and we got the best of both facets from him.

Leicester had a lot of talent and experience out there in their backline in Watson, Steward, Pollard, Brown – guys who have been Lions, been named in World Rugby's International team of the season, World Cup winners, Six Nations POTT winners – and weren't adventurous enough in attack, given the calm conditions. They didn't really showcase the best of what they had. But Ringrose was out of this world. He looked a step ahead of every other player on the pitch, a different class. He carved them open practically every time he got the ball.

I'd take all that, but with a proviso, in Wigglesworth we have a coach with zero experience with a team that were going in one direction and the coaches fecked off mid season and we hit the floor. On the way back again, if we get a semi final in the playoffs, it will be a decent result all things considered. New coach next season and we re-boot again, so I don't expect much next year either, having said that we really should have been relegated a few years back, so it's not all doom and gloom over here.

[Blueberry]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 25474.html


I had watched a bit of the post match press conference on Leinster tv but it didn’t have this interaction up. Leo is class as always.

“Not long ago we were having the conversation about the gulf between us and other teams, French teams in particular, so you know what I mean?” he began.


“Obviously, English rugby is going through a tricky patch at the moment, so they’ve had to shrink their budgets off the back of what’s going on in the game and clubs going out of business. So, that’s probably called what, sensible business?

“I don’t know. We’re just focussing on what we can. I always think we’re only scratching the surface of the potential we have.

“One of the things leading into this season we were probable most conscious of, if you think back to the tail-end of last season, where we were struggling for crowds.

“If you remember we had 6,000 against Glasgow and whatever it was 9 or 10,000 against the Bulls, so we had to have a good look at ourselves because there’s some sort of disconnect there.

“So, are we not doing enough to get out and about, and really engage with supporters and in the 12-county part of Leinster, maybe we weren’t doing enough in that space, so we tried to push that.

“So that’s what I am focussed on. I’m not really focussed on what other teams are doing or what other teams are saying. I’m focussed on what we can do, what we can do better because that’s what’s in our control, so we’ll continue to do that.

“What other teams say is sort of wasted energy for me commenting on it even, isn’t it?”

Cullen was then asked what he feels Leinster now do better than they used to before he took over in 2016.


“I think we’re fortunate that we’ve got a great staff,” he said.

“There’s a group of people there that are unbelievably passionate about the team.

“We’ve players that are unbelievably passionate about playing for Leinster which is what you want and that’s probably a legacy piece over time because it’s not that long ago, 20 years ago in 2003, we lost a semi-final here against Perpignan and I was involved in the game, but to the point where you were a little bit ashamed to walk our your front door because under-achieved.

“We were watching other provinces lift European Cups, Ulster in the late 90s, and that’s off the back of Ulster winning ten interpros in a row in the 1980s or '90s, which is when I started watching rugby.

"So, that's my formative years of watching rugby which was complete domination by Ulster.

"More recently, if you think about that period in 2003; Munster were the dominant province in Ireland, weren't they?

“We got beaten by Perpignan that day 20 years ago. I have that programme somewhere, I can tell you exactly where it is; it's on my desk. They stick in the memory.

"People have short memories, unfortunately I have a long one.

"It's a moment in time, isn't it?

"In terms of the coaching piece, the coaches are working with the players today and there was a group of coaches training this morning.

"There is a huge amount of work going into it and that's not by accident either.

"There's a number of young guys; Academy and sub-Academy players with Stuart, Robin, Andrew Goodman, all the Academy coaches out there delivering a session on Friday morning, going through all of the things we want to deliver on over the next couple of weeks with that group.

"It's hard work, there's no secret to success. You've got to have guys who are willing to put in hard work and the minute you get complacent there's somebody else waiting to take your spot.

"What would you say Ulster's domination in the 1980s and '90s was based on? Probably a really strong group of players who worked hard for each other and that's what we're trying to create here and have all the time, a strong group of players who want to work hard for each other.

"It's not rocket science.

"Munster? What was that based on? A strong group of players who worked really hard for each other.

"We were hugely envious of that at the time, they had domination for 10-12 years.

"Yeah, people have funny memories haven't they?"

Thanks for sharing this, Leo pretty much sums it all up. Class act.

Like everything nowadays things get so reactionary so quickly. Reality is English club game is going through a tough patch largely due to financial problems which is largely due to rugby not being football. It just doesn't get the support in England that football does so reality is there are probably just too many clubs all trying to be world beaters and the money isn't there. Don't think Brexit or anything else is really anything to do with it, just a poor structure which needs some serious work. Don't think they can support so many pro clubs and expect them to be competitive.

The French are producing a small number of dominant club teams built on solid finances but underneath there are problems and Ireland has a system that is working but not perfect, arguably too reliant on a handful of south dub schools. Wales needs to rationalise and reduce club/regional teams, its a bit of a mess and Scotland probably has it about right with two pro clubs / regions.

Bottom line is its up to unions to sort their structures and fans should be venting their frustration at their unions not at Leinster or La Rochelle etc. I am not surprised that some English fans are moaning , we have had it before from the Welsh etc and there was moaning coming from our waters when we had Toulon spending zillions with the Harlem Globetrotters !! People love to blame other folk or reasons rather than look internally.

Bottom line is ignore it all, the world of social media whinging, who cares. Most people are just posting to get a rise rather than actually thinking it through. The lot calling Leinster Ireland for example is hilarious forgetting that Ireland picks from Leinster and the other provinces. Leinster's dominance shows that Leinster is humming nicely. You can also look at it and say the IRFU has serious work to do to improve player development in Munster and Ulster etc if you want to be critical.

If Leinster were so strong and unbeatable and in such an unfair position why have we only won it once in 11 years ? It is incredibly difficult to win a European cup.

It's all stupid waffle and by the way we will have to be very good to win it this year despite some people claiming it is a foregone conclusion. Toulouse and Lar who I expect will beat Exeter are serious teams.

[Oldschool]

Any insights on how the Doris at 7 experiment was going, prior to Baird's injury, as it may have a bearing on the BR we put out against Toulouse.

[riocard911]

Super win against the English champions. Really impressed with the one-sided second half after a very physical first half. Lots of blood spilled in that first forty, a very hard-fought opening period.

Exceptional performance from Jimmy O'Brien, who justified his selection on the right wing. He dealt very well with the aerial threat of Freddie Steward and was a really dangerous running and passing threat for the whole game. Just like against Racing in January, he was very close to being MOTM.

I thought that he was a little lucky to get the nod ahead of Larmour, while recognising that his fullback skills would be very useful in a match like this. But as it turned out, he put in a performance which mixed that high ball excellence with brilliant attacking play and we got the best of both facets from him.

Leicester had a lot of talent and experience out there in their backline in Watson, Steward, Pollard, Brown – guys who have been Lions, been named in World Rugby's International team of the season, World Cup winners, Six Nations POTT winners – and weren't adventurous enough in attack, given the calm conditions. They didn't really showcase the best of what they had. But Ringrose was out of this world. He looked a step ahead of every other player on the pitch, a different class. He carved them open practically every time he got the ball.

I'd take all that, but with a proviso, in Wigglesworth we have a coach with zero experience with a team that were going in one direction and the coaches fecked off mid season and we hit the floor. On the way back again, if we get a semi final in the playoffs, it will be a decent result all things considered. New coach next season and we re-boot again, so I don't expect much next year either, having said that we really should have been relegated a few years back, so it's not all doom and gloom over here.

With fans like yourself TB, the Tigers will never be far from the top table, be it in Europe or the Prem. Good luck for the rest of the season!

[blockhead]

Why are so many Irish rugby fans embarrassed about budgets? Irish provinces have large budgets because Irish rugby is really well run financially with a completely integrated pyramid system that benefits and grows the game from the grassroots through to the international game. We worked for it, we earned it, let's not be shy about it. If others are jealous because THE SYSTEM THEY CHOSE FOR THEMSELVES is shite, f%~k 'em.

The English mantra seems to be “our system is broken, your system works, therefore you must adopt our system.”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Europe isn't working for us, we're not competitive so therefore let's try and break Europe. It's peak Brexit mentality.

Ireland were absolute muck in the 90's so we put in place a system of player development to address the issue knowing that we couldn't compete with France and England financially. It was based upon a sustainable player development model and it's worked for both Ireland and our clubs.

English rugby thought the Premiership was going to be like the Premier League in terms of revenue but it isn't anything close to that, to quote Nigel, this is not soccer. Soccer is a game played by millions, rugby is a minority sport 2 English clubs went bust this year and many more are teetering on the brink and the national team is no longer successful. Clearly they need to fix their issues, blaming us or the French for having models that give us an advantage is kind of pathetic. It was particularly hilarious listening to Wigglesworth whining about an unfair advantage given that he played on a team that financially cheated it's way to European victory.

Our average gate this season is over 23K, we got just shy of 79,000 punters in the door in 7 days (and they were bonus games).That's gonna pay some bills.

[ronk]

Would have been 100k if they'd scheduled a gap between the last 16 and QF.

[Twist]

Why are so many Irish rugby fans embarrassed about budgets? Irish provinces have large budgets because Irish rugby is really well run financially with a completely integrated pyramid system that benefits and grows the game from the grassroots through to the international game. We worked for it, we earned it, let's not be shy about it. If others are jealous because THE SYSTEM THEY CHOSE FOR THEMSELVES is shite, f%~k 'em.

The English mantra seems to be “our system is broken, your system works, therefore you must adopt our system.”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Europe isn't working for us, we're not competitive so therefore let's try and break Europe. It's peak Brexit mentality.

Ireland were absolute muck in the 90's so we put in place a system of player development to address the issue knowing that we couldn't compete with France and England financially. It was based upon a sustainable player development model and it's worked for both Ireland and our clubs.

English rugby thought the Premiership was going to be like the Premier League in terms of revenue but it isn't anything close to that, to quote Nigel, this is not soccer. Soccer is a game played by millions, rugby is a minority sport 2 English clubs went bust this year and many more are teetering on the brink and the national team is no longer successful. Clearly they need to fix their issues, blaming us or the French for having models that give us an advantage is kind of pathetic. It was particularly hilarious listening to Wigglesworth whining about an unfair advantage given that he played on a team that financially cheated it's way to European victory.

They don’t blame the French though. They just snipe at us. Now when you look at the way French teams like Toulon have gone out and bought success compared to our home-grown ethos you’d have to wonder why it is that we attract public bitching and the French don’t. I think it’s because they see the French as peers, whereas Irish clubs having sustained success over them goes against what they see as the natural order. In short; we’re uppity.