Who is next at Scrumhalf?

[Serb]

Leinsters options at 9 next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(31) - signed contract in 2022
Luke McGrath(30/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2023
Cormac Foley(24/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2023
--
Ben Murphy(22/Pres Bray/Old Wesley) - Academy Yr 3
Fintan Gunne(20/St. Michaels/Terenure) - Academy Yr 1

Is Nick McCarty gone officially? Think I missed that announcement

[Theleinsterlad]

Leinsters options at 9 next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(31) - signed contract in 2022
Luke McGrath(30/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2023
Cormac Foley(24/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2023
--
Ben Murphy(22/Pres Bray/Old Wesley) - Academy Yr 3
Fintan Gunne(20/St. Michaels/Terenure) - Academy Yr 1

Is Nick McCarty gone officially? Think I missed that announcement

Murray kinsella has said he is going to the US next year but it’s not been officially said yet

[Bigdickenergy]

Gunne didn’t stand out for the Irish 20’s as much as I thought he would. Still has a big future though.

[FtD]

Gunne didn’t stand out for the Irish 20’s as much as I thought he would. Still has a big future though.

The hype on Gunne was on another level, so very hard for him to live up to that I felt, but bar one relatively sloppy performance I think he had a really good championship.

Nuts and bolts of his game as a 9 looked good to me - snappy pass off either hand, good kicking option from hand, ran great support lines, solid defensively and his decision making was largely good for me.

Like all 9s, there are areas he can obviously improve - his pass needs to be better (it was good but could be a lot better), his communication organising defenders around the ruck needs to improve and he'll get the balance better around when to snipe and when not to, but realistic to say he's Leinster's best 9 prospect since Luke McGrath.

[hugonaut]

Leinsters options at 9 next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(31) - signed contract in 2022
Luke McGrath(30/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2023
Cormac Foley(24/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2023
--
Ben Murphy(22/Pres Bray/Old Wesley) - Academy Yr 3
Fintan Gunne(20/St. Michaels/Terenure) - Academy Yr 1

I think that's a good lineup.

I've a lot of respect for Nick McCarthy, but it has been difficult for other guys to progress while he has been in the squad this season. Nick hasn't had his best season for us, but has still played in quite a lot of games [16]. I think it has been one position where Cullen and Lancaster have been a little bit conservative in their selection.

Foley missing a lot of time through injury has meant he hasn't been under much pressure for his spot, as Ben Murphy is the only other scrum-half in the organisation. I think that Ben probably should have got more games, but it's always difficult to make the call to bring in a new player at scrum-half. So much of the game goes through them.

Fintan Gunne looks like a very confident sort of player, which is unquestionably a good thing in a scrum-half. The fact that he has played in partnership with Sam Prendergast @ U20s level is also a significant plus.

[Blue Man]

Leinsters options at 9 next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(31) - signed contract in 2022
Luke McGrath(30/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2023
Cormac Foley(24/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2023
--
Ben Murphy(22/Pres Bray/Old Wesley) - Academy Yr 3
Fintan Gunne(20/St. Michaels/Terenure) - Academy Yr 1

I think that's a good lineup.

I've a lot of respect for Nick McCarthy, but it has been difficult for other guys to progress while he has been in the squad this season. Nick hasn't had his best season for us, but has still played in quite a lot of games [16]. I think it has been one position where Cullen and Lancaster have been a little bit conservative in their selection.

Foley missing a lot of time through injury has meant he hasn't been under much pressure for his spot, as Ben Murphy is the only other scrum-half in the organisation. I think that Ben probably should have got more games, but it's always difficult to make the call to bring in a new player at scrum-half. So much of the game goes through them.

Fintan Gunne looks like a very confident sort of player, which is unquestionably a good thing in a scrum-half. The fact that he has played in partnership with Sam Prendergast @ U20s level is also a significant plus.

I don’t think that’s a good line up. It’s our weakest position and I have a real concern over the depth chart.
For some reason, we’ve only produced one, Leinster career scrum half (Luke) and even he has never been a quality international player.
Tough benchmark but if you look across the rest of the team, we have consistently produced quality internationals and Lions.

[paddyor]

Leinsters options at 9 next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(31) - signed contract in 2022
Luke McGrath(30/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2023
Cormac Foley(24/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2023
--
Ben Murphy(22/Pres Bray/Old Wesley) - Academy Yr 3
Fintan Gunne(20/St. Michaels/Terenure) - Academy Yr 1

Is Nick McCarty gone officially? Think I missed that announcement

Murray kinsella has said he is going to the US next year but it’s not been officially said yet

Last time he left he was culled from the 23s and the minutes given elsewhere. Maybe a lack of faith in Foley/Murphy?

[Theleinsterlad]

Is Nick McCarty gone officially? Think I missed that announcement

Murray kinsella has said he is going to the US next year but it’s not been officially said yet

Last time he left he was culled from the 23s and the minutes given elsewhere. Maybe a lack of faith in Foley/Murphy?

Think it probably had more to do with our experience at halfback and worry of having two novices as our halfback pairing towards the serious part of the season

[Flash Gordon]

Leinsters options at 9 next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(31) - signed contract in 2022
Luke McGrath(30/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2023
Cormac Foley(24/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2023
--
Ben Murphy(22/Pres Bray/Old Wesley) - Academy Yr 3
Fintan Gunne(20/St. Michaels/Terenure) - Academy Yr 1

I think that's a good lineup.

I've a lot of respect for Nick McCarthy, but it has been difficult for other guys to progress while he has been in the squad this season. Nick hasn't had his best season for us, but has still played in quite a lot of games [16]. I think it has been one position where Cullen and Lancaster have been a little bit conservative in their selection.

Foley missing a lot of time through injury has meant he hasn't been under much pressure for his spot, as Ben Murphy is the only other scrum-half in the organisation. I think that Ben probably should have got more games, but it's always difficult to make the call to bring in a new player at scrum-half. So much of the game goes through them.

Fintan Gunne looks like a very confident sort of player, which is unquestionably a good thing in a scrum-half. The fact that he has played in partnership with Sam Prendergast @ U20s level is also a significant plus.

I don’t think that’s a good line up. It’s our weakest position and I have a real concern over the depth chart.
For some reason, we’ve only produced one, Leinster career scrum half (Luke) and even he has never been a quality international player.
Tough benchmark but if you look across the rest of the team, we have consistently produced quality internationals and Lions.

Yeah, it's a bit of an odd one alright. Would have liked to see us sign Marmion as he's probably a better option than all of those bar JGP as a scrum half. Luke is a great asset to have at the club clearly and his try scoring record is freakish but he's probably not going to push out JGP for Leinster or Ireland. If you look at the backrow, any one of those drops out and you've got a lad to step up who is pretty much the same level, we don't have that at half back.

[deco]

You never know, Patterson might decide he wants to come come.

[paddyor]

Murray kinsella has said he is going to the US next year but it’s not been officially said yet

Last time he left he was culled from the 23s and the minutes given elsewhere. Maybe a lack of faith in Foley/Murphy?

Think it probably had more to do with our experience at halfback and worry of having two novices as our halfback pairing towards the serious part of the season

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/historic-p ... d=NM616126

181 minutes for the 18/19 season. 80 of which was in a dead rubber vs Ulster in our last league game His move was leaked in October 2018. We even played an Academy SH(Hough O'Sullivan) on the bench vs Saracens.

[paddyor]

Yeah, it's a bit of an odd one alright. Would have liked to see us sign Marmion as he's probably a better option than all of those bar JGP as a scrum half. Luke is a great asset to have at the club clearly and his try scoring record is freakish but he's probably not going to push out JGP for Leinster or Ireland. If you look at the backrow, any one of those drops out and you've got a lad to step up who is pretty much the same level, we don't have that at half back.

lmao. If we signed Marmion there'd be war. We don't have bandwidth for 3 top SHs. No one does, it's 1/2 amd whatever you ahve in the academy/development.

[Flash Gordon]

Yeah, it's a bit of an odd one alright. Would have liked to see us sign Marmion as he's probably a better option than all of those bar JGP as a scrum half. Luke is a great asset to have at the club clearly and his try scoring record is freakish but he's probably not going to push out JGP for Leinster or Ireland. If you look at the backrow, any one of those drops out and you've got a lad to step up who is pretty much the same level, we don't have that at half back.

lmao. If we signed Marmion there'd be war. We don't have bandwidth for 3 top SHs. No one does, it's 1/2 amd whatever you ahve in the academy/development.

We don't have 2 international level scrum halves at the club though. Luke hasn't been capped since 2016. He's a good 9 at URC level but if JGP was injured and we were starting Luke and Ross on Saturday I wouldn't honestly back us to win. Clearly it's conjecture as he's gone but not sure there'd be war if Marmion went to another province vs an English club. Personally I still think he's good enough to contend for an Ireland spot but now he's not available.

Patterson back would be good too.

[Xanthippe]

Yeah, it's a bit of an odd one alright. Would have liked to see us sign Marmion as he's probably a better option than all of those bar JGP as a scrum half. Luke is a great asset to have at the club clearly and his try scoring record is freakish but he's probably not going to push out JGP for Leinster or Ireland. If you look at the backrow, any one of those drops out and you've got a lad to step up who is pretty much the same level, we don't have that at half back.

lmao. If we signed Marmion there'd be war. We don't have bandwidth for 3 top SHs. No one does, it's 1/2 amd whatever you ahve in the academy/development.

We don't have 2 international level scrum halves at the club though. Luke hasn't been capped since 2016. He's a good 9 at URC level but if JGP was injured and we were starting Luke and Ross on Saturday I wouldn't honestly back us to win. Clearly it's conjecture as he's gone but not sure there'd be war if Marmion went to another province vs an English club. Personally I still think he's good enough to contend for an Ireland spot but now he's not available.

Patterson back would be good too.

I assume you meant 2019? He played in all the warm ups and all the RWC games but hasn't been picked since his 6 minutes in the defeat to New Zealand

[leinsterforever]

Let's be honest Leinster don't know what they're doing at scrumhalf. There's a catalogue of at best questionable and at worst bewildering decisions that have been made over the years

- McCarthy brought back from Munster with Patterson going the other way
- a player in McCarthy who has reached his ceiling given the same or more opportunities than Foley who was showing promise
- it taking Farrell selecting him for Ireland for JGP to be promoted to first choice
- Hugh O'Sullivan being kept in training rather than getting match practice in the AIL

The best we can hope for is that Academy players find their feet playing AIL and then Leinster select them enough when they're the next cab off the rank for them to develop further by themselves.

I like what I've seen of Foley and Murphy. Think there could be something to work with there. Gunne is an unknown to me, bar what I've read on forums.

[ronk]

Leinsters options at 9 next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(31) - signed contract in 2022
Luke McGrath(30/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2023
Cormac Foley(24/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2023
--
Ben Murphy(22/Pres Bray/Old Wesley) - Academy Yr 3
Fintan Gunne(20/St. Michaels/Terenure) - Academy Yr 1

I think that's a good lineup.

I've a lot of respect for Nick McCarthy, but it has been difficult for other guys to progress while he has been in the squad this season. Nick hasn't had his best season for us, but has still played in quite a lot of games [16]. I think it has been one position where Cullen and Lancaster have been a little bit conservative in their selection.

Foley missing a lot of time through injury has meant he hasn't been under much pressure for his spot, as Ben Murphy is the only other scrum-half in the organisation. I think that Ben probably should have got more games, but it's always difficult to make the call to bring in a new player at scrum-half. So much of the game goes through them.

Fintan Gunne looks like a very confident sort of player, which is unquestionably a good thing in a scrum-half. The fact that he has played in partnership with Sam Prendergast @ U20s level is also a significant plus.

I don’t think that’s a good line up. It’s our weakest position and I have a real concern over the depth chart.
For some reason, we’ve only produced one, Leinster career scrum half (Luke) and even he has never been a quality international player.
Tough benchmark but if you look across the rest of the team, we have consistently produced quality internationals and Lions.

The role of scrumhalf is brutal at Leinster. Our system hinges on faster ruck speed than the other fastest teams, usually with multiple options and a read of defenders. And if you can't do it the whole rest of the team struggles. It's not easy to learn, and fans pick up on it fast when it's not going well.

Luke is the most successful scrumhalf but a few ones moved on too, but it's also against a backdrop where it's extremely difficult to break in. Over 15+ years we've really only signed 4 scrumhalves: Whittaker, Reddan, Boss and PGJ. And that's on a squad basis, not starting team.

McGrath came along at approximately the right time, he he broke through, but we needed 2 at once. The others pretty much date from a time when the Leinster academy was good but nothing like the production line it is now.

The Nick McCarthy saga caused a surprising amount of disruption. Leinster had a solid 3 9s setup with McCarthy progressing but never looking like getting his day in the sun.

McCarthy saw an ageing Murray and Williams on the way out so he jumped ship. But Munster showed what little he meant to them when they extended Mathewson. Meanwhile Leinster went into damage control, they had to massively accelerate HOS etc al. in a sink or swim situation, which meant that McCarthy was frozen out. When he came back it didn't make sense for Patterson to stay and Munster now had minutes available.

He's done okay but hasn't really settled. So we're now in a situation where we have a 28 year old who's never made more than 4 starts a season in his 8 seasons and who basically thrashed 5 years of his career with a bad move. If McCarthy stays here for another season he'd be eeking out another year of salary but treading water, and hes be blocking development. I can see why either side might want to move on.

[Plámásing]

The one thing I would say about Gunne is like most Michaels prospects he has at least one gaping shortcoming. When I saw him for the 20’s he would make a box kick and then miss the follow up tackle. It looked to me like he was struggling to make the transition to the next level in terms of physicality but it also spoke to me in terms of technical ability.

He wasn’t willing to make the tackle or at least put his body on the line physically. That can come from not believing in the cause or having familiarity with your teammates. His box kicking is very hit and miss also. I like his ability to get across the pitch in cover defence but this is a side note of the main areas of play.

There is also the depth of his passing skill. I’m not sure he can vary the length or snappiness of his pass beyond the first receiver. As we have seen is so important for Leinster recently, JGP can vary it from 1st to 2nd to 3rd receiver on a string and it can vary the point of attack to keep the defence guessing or even to biting in on the blind leaking tries. There are several areas he needs to improve on, the above two being the gaping ones right now.

It struck me like his follow up tackles were sub par and he needed to adapt physically. I hope he can make the next step. Hopefully he can fix this area of his game and seal off the apparent shortcomings which could be exposed at pro level.

[Bigdickenergy]

The one thing I would say about Gunne is like most Michaels prospects he has at least one gaping shortcoming. When I saw him for the 20’s he would make a box kick and then miss the follow up tackle. It looked to me like he was struggling to make the transition to the next level in terms of physicality but it also spoke to me in terms of technical ability.

He wasn’t willing to make the tackle or at least put his body on the line physically. That can come from not believing in the cause or having familiarity with your teammates. His box kicking is very hit and miss also. I like his ability to get across the pitch in cover defence but this is a side note of the main areas of play.

There is also the depth of his passing skill. I’m not sure he can vary the length or snappiness of his pass beyond the first receiver. As we have seen is so important for Leinster recently, JGP can vary it from 1st to 2nd to 3rd receiver on a string and it can vary the point of attack to keep the defence guessing or even to biting in on the blind leaking tries. There are several areas he needs to improve on, the above two being the gaping ones right now.

It struck me like his follow up tackles were sub par and he needed to adapt physically. I hope he can make the next step. Hopefully he can fix this area of his game and seal off the apparent shortcomings which could be exposed at pro level.

Shots fired at Michaels haha

[Observingprop123]

The one thing I would say about Gunne is like most Michaels prospects he has at least one gaping shortcoming. When I saw him for the 20’s he would make a box kick and then miss the follow up tackle. It looked to me like he was struggling to make the transition to the next level in terms of physicality but it also spoke to me in terms of technical ability.

He wasn’t willing to make the tackle or at least put his body on the line physically. That can come from not believing in the cause or having familiarity with your teammates. His box kicking is very hit and miss also. I like his ability to get across the pitch in cover defence but this is a side note of the main areas of play.

There is also the depth of his passing skill. I’m not sure he can vary the length or snappiness of his pass beyond the first receiver. As we have seen is so important for Leinster recently, JGP can vary it from 1st to 2nd to 3rd receiver on a string and it can vary the point of attack to keep the defence guessing or even to biting in on the blind leaking tries. There are several areas he needs to improve on, the above two being the gaping ones right now.

It struck me like his follow up tackles were sub par and he needed to adapt physically. I hope he can make the next step. Hopefully he can fix this area of his game and seal off the apparent shortcomings which could be exposed at pro level.

Shots fired at Michaels haha

Sending shots at Michaels biggest superfan here.

[Ruckedtobits]

JGP wasn't the finished article by any means in his first two seasons with us. But he has developed with good tuition and great competition. However, the key was he started with an excellent pass (and not a whole lot else). That's the key component for a top-class scrum-half. Most of the rest, and particularly the kicking game, can be developed with assiduous practice.