fourthirtythree wrote: ↑January 9th, 2023, 1:38 pm
We are not as popular.
You don't get the audience share and it's noticeable from the URC viewing figures last year that while Leinster supporters will watch other provinces there is a glaring lack of Munster supporters willing to watch anything about us.
Including a match they are also playing in.
That's how strong the anitpathy to watching anything Leinster is in the largest rugby watching population in Ireland.
Yeah they can't bear to watch Leinster since 2009.
Also the Irish sports media have no interest in writing/talking about "Well run and successful club continues to be well run and successful". They much prefer making a story about the struggles of the perennial underdog and their heroic feats.
I don't think this is an Irish thing at all. I am (and have been for 30+ years) a fan of both Leinster (rugby) and Manchester City (football). City get very little media coverage apart from what is necessary for serial winners. By comparison, the dumpster fire at Manchester United over the past decade gets huge attention, whether that be on TV, newspapers, podcasts, or any other form of media.
The sad thing is that this is probably right. It's more interesting (not for me personally, but for the floating or neutral fan). "Man bites dog" gets more clicks than "dog bites man".
In modern media it is much easier to ascertain what is popular than the pre-Internet days. While Leinster and Man City get plenty of clicks in Dublin and Manchester (respectively), Munster and Manchester United get more clicks overall. Call it the price of success – as noted by others above, I'd rather win trophies than win Off the Ball minutes.
fourthirtythree wrote: ↑January 9th, 2023, 1:38 pm
We are not as popular.
You don't get the audience share and it's noticeable from the URC viewing figures last year that while Leinster supporters will watch other provinces there is a glaring lack of Munster supporters willing to watch anything about us.
Including a match they are also playing in.
That's how strong the anitpathy to watching anything Leinster is in the largest rugby watching population in Ireland.
Yeah they can't bear to watch Leinster since 2009.
Also the Irish sports media have no interest in writing/talking about "Well run and successful club continues to be well run and successful". They much prefer making a story about the struggles of the perennial underdog and their heroic feats.
I don't think this is an Irish thing at all. I am (and have been for 30+ years) a fan of both Leinster (rugby) and Manchester City (football). City get very little media coverage apart from what is necessary for serial winners. By comparison, the dumpster fire at Manchester United over the past decade gets huge attention, whether that be on TV, newspapers, podcasts, or any other form of media.
The sad thing is that this is probably right. It's more interesting (not for me personally, but for the floating or neutral fan). "Man bites dog" gets more clicks than "dog bites man".
In modern media it is much easier to ascertain what is popular than the pre-Internet days. While Leinster and Man City get plenty of clicks in Dublin and Manchester (respectively), Munster and Manchester United get more clicks overall. Call it the price of success – as noted by others above, I'd rather win trophies than win Off the Ball minutes.
Man U (and Chelsea) got lots of media attention even while they were winning over here. Man City probably get less as their success is based on little more than money.
fourthirtythree wrote: ↑January 9th, 2023, 1:38 pm
We are not as popular.
You don't get the audience share and it's noticeable from the URC viewing figures last year that while Leinster supporters will watch other provinces there is a glaring lack of Munster supporters willing to watch anything about us.
Including a match they are also playing in.
That's how strong the anitpathy to watching anything Leinster is in the largest rugby watching population in Ireland.
Yeah they can't bear to watch Leinster since 2009.
Also the Irish sports media have no interest in writing/talking about "Well run and successful club continues to be well run and successful". They much prefer making a story about the struggles of the perennial underdog and their heroic feats.
I don't think this is an Irish thing at all. I am (and have been for 30+ years) a fan of both Leinster (rugby) and Manchester City (football). City get very little media coverage apart from what is necessary for serial winners. By comparison, the dumpster fire at Manchester United over the past decade gets huge attention, whether that be on TV, newspapers, podcasts, or any other form of media.
The sad thing is that this is probably right. It's more interesting (not for me personally, but for the floating or neutral fan). "Man bites dog" gets more clicks than "dog bites man".
In modern media it is much easier to ascertain what is popular than the pre-Internet days. While Leinster and Man City get plenty of clicks in Dublin and Manchester (respectively), Munster and Manchester United get more clicks overall. Call it the price of success – as noted by others above, I'd rather win trophies than win Off the Ball minutes.
Not sure the level of coverage is much different, from a media perspective Leinster is the biggest market, we're the best supported club, our demographic tends to be more what advertisers are looking for but the narrative probably is. As you say, who cares anyway, we have a really good culture that works on the drive for success and humility and pretty much all our players come from where we come from. We also have a way of playing and a philosophy that many of us want to watch. All you can do is control your own environment and we do that pretty well, main focus is on winning another European cup, that's all that should really matter to the club and fans.
Yeah they can't bear to watch Leinster since 2009.
Also the Irish sports media have no interest in writing/talking about "Well run and successful club continues to be well run and successful". They much prefer making a story about the struggles of the perennial underdog and their heroic feats.
I don't think this is an Irish thing at all. I am (and have been for 30+ years) a fan of both Leinster (rugby) and Manchester City (football). City get very little media coverage apart from what is necessary for serial winners. By comparison, the dumpster fire at Manchester United over the past decade gets huge attention, whether that be on TV, newspapers, podcasts, or any other form of media.
The sad thing is that this is probably right. It's more interesting (not for me personally, but for the floating or neutral fan). "Man bites dog" gets more clicks than "dog bites man".
In modern media it is much easier to ascertain what is popular than the pre-Internet days. While Leinster and Man City get plenty of clicks in Dublin and Manchester (respectively), Munster and Manchester United get more clicks overall. Call it the price of success – as noted by others above, I'd rather win trophies than win Off the Ball minutes.
Man U (and Chelsea) got lots of media attention even while they were winning over here. Man City probably get less as their success is based on little more than money.
This one always makes me laugh.
Over the last 10 years Chelsea have outspent everyone in Europe (Ie the World) in the transfer market (E1.85Billion) and Man Utd have the biggest net transfer deficit (E1.25Billion) on the planet in the same period. Yet Man City are the team who's success is based on money?
Narratives can be hard to shake.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
Hoofhearted wrote: ↑January 10th, 2023, 7:52 am
I find Quinnys podcast hard to listen too. He just talks over Niamh constantly.
Luke Fitzs ones isn't bad content wise, but his accent too Ross OCarrol Kelly!
Nail on head there.
There are two people in rugby I actually find hard to listen to because their accents sound like caricatures of a South Dublin rogby goy.
Greg McWilliams is one.
Luke Fitz is the other.
It isn't a bad podcast though when he avoids the clickbait.
Well thats going to remain a problem for you seeing as South Dublin goys and their/our accents are part of the firmament of Leinster rugby.
Try having a team, supporters or pundits without them/us.
All accents are welcome as far as I am concerned (although I am crossing my fingers in saying that as I confess I struggle with the TG4 male co-commentator's very flat accent (not Eoghan O'Neachtain). Unlike South Dublin rugby goys to Leinster, his accent is unique to TV commentary imho).
Leinster get the media exposure interest in Leinster generates. No outlet is going to put something that doesn't generate eyeballs, clicks, whatever on their platform, no outlet is going to ignore something that generates eyeballs, clicks, whatever. If there were a sustainable market for an in-depth rugby show in Ireland one of the 7 (6.5) native television channels would have produced one.
Hoofhearted wrote: ↑January 10th, 2023, 7:52 am
I find Quinnys podcast hard to listen too. He just talks over Niamh constantly.
Luke Fitzs ones isn't bad content wise, but his accent too Ross OCarrol Kelly!
Nail on head there.
There are two people in rugby I actually find hard to listen to because their accents sound like caricatures of a South Dublin rogby goy.
Greg McWilliams is one.
Luke Fitz is the other.
It isn't a bad podcast though when he avoids the clickbait.
Well thats going to remain a problem for you seeing as South Dublin goys and their/our accents are part of the firmament of Leinster rugby.
Try having a team, supporters or pundits without them/us.
All accents are welcome as far as I am concerned (although I am crossing my fingers in saying that as I confess I struggle with the TG4 male co-commentator's very flat accent (not Eoghan O'Neachtain). Unlike South Dublin rugby goys to Leinster, his accent is unique to TV commentary imho).
Even John Forrest? He's actually grand to be fair, I thought at first he was taking the Michael.
Hoofhearted wrote: ↑January 10th, 2023, 7:52 am
I find Quinnys podcast hard to listen too. He just talks over Niamh constantly.
Luke Fitzs ones isn't bad content wise, but his accent too Ross OCarrol Kelly!
Nail on head there.
There are two people in rugby I actually find hard to listen to because their accents sound like caricatures of a South Dublin rogby goy.
Greg McWilliams is one.
Luke Fitz is the other.
It isn't a bad podcast though when he avoids the clickbait.
Well thats going to remain a problem for you seeing as South Dublin goys and their/our accents are part of the firmament of Leinster rugby.
Try having a team, supporters or pundits without them/us.
All accents are welcome as far as I am concerned (although I am crossing my fingers in saying that as I confess I struggle with the TG4 male co-commentator's very flat accent (not Eoghan O'Neachtain). Unlike South Dublin rugby goys to Leinster, his accent is unique to TV commentary imho).
That's the most 'on brand' response I could've imagined! Kudos!
Dave Cahill wrote: ↑January 10th, 2023, 12:43 pm
Leinster get the media exposure interest in Leinster generates. No outlet is going to put something that doesn't generate eyeballs, clicks, whatever on their platform, no outlet is going to ignore something that generates eyeballs, clicks, whatever. If there were a sustainable market for an in-depth rugby show in Ireland one of the 7 (6.5) native television channels would have produced one.
I think part of the problem is there's so few teams to actually talk about
You can listen to all the rugby shows/pods out there and the content is usually quite samey if not the same. Gavan Casey made the point on the 42 that with Leinster it can be a bit groundhog day where the machine mercilessly marchs on and I tend to agree. Connacht are struggling, as Connacht generally do. THe big story atm is Ulster falling back and Munster improving.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
There are two people in rugby I actually find hard to listen to because their accents sound like caricatures of a South Dublin rogby goy.
Greg McWilliams is one.
Luke Fitz is the other.
It isn't a bad podcast though when he avoids the clickbait.
Well thats going to remain a problem for you seeing as South Dublin goys and their/our accents are part of the firmament of Leinster rugby.
Try having a team, supporters or pundits without them/us.
All accents are welcome as far as I am concerned (although I am crossing my fingers in saying that as I confess I struggle with the TG4 male co-commentator's very flat accent (not Eoghan O'Neachtain). Unlike South Dublin rugby goys to Leinster, his accent is unique to TV commentary imho).
That's the most 'on brand' response I could've imagined! Kudos!
Nah. Its just a fact.
I actually went off-brand as 'Southside Rugby Goy' doesn't respect accents outside D4-land.
We seem to be rubbing off on you with your use of 'Kudos'.
Dave Cahill wrote: ↑January 10th, 2023, 12:43 pm
Leinster get the media exposure interest in Leinster generates. No outlet is going to put something that doesn't generate eyeballs, clicks, whatever on their platform, no outlet is going to ignore something that generates eyeballs, clicks, whatever. If there were a sustainable market for an in-depth rugby show in Ireland one of the 7 (6.5) native television channels would have produced one.
I think part of the problem is there's so few teams to actually talk about
You can listen to all the rugby shows/pods out there and the content is usually quite samey if not the same. Gavan Casey made the point on the 42 that with Leinster it can be a bit groundhog day where the machine mercilessly marchs on and I tend to agree. Connacht are struggling, as Connacht generally do. THe big story atm is Ulster falling back and Munster improving.
Yep, agree with that, most of the analysis will be the same because most of us came through Irish rugby and we tend to look at the game the same way, with the same priorities and tactical schooling.
I agree with your first sentence, but it's also kind of wrong, there are both too few teams and too many. Because there are only four teams to talk about, if you have a hour long show on RTE/TG4/Virgin, then you have 48 minutes of tv (12mins per hour for ad breaks is the cap for commercial TV - RTE has a different system based on minutes per day) so that's 12 minutes per team - you can't do a lot in 12 minutes. Ulster Rugby are at an advantage there, their host broadcaster, BBC Northern Ireland, only has to cater for one team, so even with a half hour show (without ad breaks), even if they run a highlights package of the other Irish teams, they can still dedicate 20+ minutes to Ulster
Might be worth canvassing a couple of the former players.
It doesn’t take massive investment to start a podcast and with the right players it would probably gather a lot of free promotional media.
I listen to Quinny and Briggs every week, both would be household names in Munster and well known beyond the province.
They both bring a wealth of knowledge, but what I like about them is that they are easy to connect with and are well able to look at Munster objectively.
They are not afraid to call out Munster’s failing while also downplaying a lot of the hype that exists in other media outlets.
I would listen to a Leinster podcast if it were the same, the existing one is very amateurish and lacking real depth.
I think someone like Leavy or Toner would be very good at this.
Throws a grenade in the window and runs away.
Oh, I hadn't seen that.
while neither the Bluestalkers nor the Moles need me to stick up for them. I think they're both great podcasts.
Mise freisin!
I also like Joe Molloy on OTB, but the in-depth discussions with Quinny, Woody and/or Niamh Briggs discussing the latest developments in Shelbyville I just fast-forward thru at this stage. You wouldn't believe the time it saves!!!!
Murray Kinsella's game analysis is head and shoulders above anyone else (Jackman a not so close 2nd). His latest offering on Leinster's winning plays against Ospreys is a good example of what we need more of. https://www.the42.ie/leinster-lineout-5965108-Jan2023/ 42.ie gives plenty of coverage to Leinster as far as I can see. We dont need more blather from O'Sullivan, Briggs and Lenihan. All experts in stating the bleedin' obvious.
Luke Fitz is the closest we have to a top tier Leinster podcast for me. I can move past his accent, I think they spend a lot more time covering Leinster than other podcasts, I think Luke covers some of the more technical aspects of the game fairly well and he has had some very interesting guests on in the past, invariably former Leinster players since I'd imagine that they majority of his network (not sure if he still does the interviews as I stopped listening to him for a long period).
It's interesting even looking at the titles of the podcast episodes, they give you a good insight into the bias:
The Left Wing: Always mention Leinster, often mention Munster, sometimes mention Ulster and never mention Connacht.
The 42: Always mention Munster, often mention Leinster, sometimes mention Ulster and never mention Connacht
I think those sum up the kind of coverage you get from both those podcasts.
Bad news sells, its good Leinster are being ignored. Douglas Adams had a great quote “Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws”. Absence from the meeja generally means there is no bad news so its to be welcomed on one level.
However as a tax & licence fee payer the "National Broadcaster" take the biscuit for one eyed focus. Against the Truth on Monday was a very balanced production. Dagger, Tremenjus (whom I like & think he's a good analyst) and Go Easy. 3 Corkmen, very representative, Munster's Limerick contingent mollified by the fact Eddie played a bit for Garryowen. Darren Cave's moustache was up in arms it wasn't included. Highlights and then 10 minutes of have Munster turned the corner (no, not quite yet is the short answer) with a side order of isn't it great Ulster are now completely shi&e instead of us. Leinster's highlights were sufficiently important to the production team that they felt it was appropriate to air them after the ladies interpros - no disrespect to the ladies interpros intended. You'd get deeper analysis of Leinster on BTSport.
The Irish rugby meeja ecosystem suffers from being too small a pond, its not big enough for a contrarian to go against the consensus like Dunphy did with wendyball, Hook tried to be one but he just became a caricature. Kimmage is one but he only dips into rugby now and again and tends to focus on drug use. Of the dedicated rugby journalists no one will do anything to jeopardise their access - which is their livelihood, so its all very safe and samey. End of October there was a lot of concern in Munster about progression and the start to their season, you could see it in what was written at the time. Jackman has been bending over backwards recently to blow smoke up Munster's ass because of his comment a couple of months back he didn't think they'd qualify for the 23/4 Heineken cup. They've lost to Toulouse and us since the end of October, no shame in that. Ulster were on top of the world until the 3rd of December and were all set to overtake Leinster. They've been on a nose dive since that no journalist / analyst predicted. Connacht have been playing well but not getting the results or the credit they deserve - no change there.
For me the best podcast is OTB when they have Andy Dunne on, calls a spade a spade, Leinster tinged maybe but impartial and brutally honest - even about himself. I do like Tremenjus in the Examiner and Murray K is well worth reading too IMO. But if you want honest opinion there tends to be better discussion and analysis here than on most podcasts. It does get plagiarised too, you can spot when Gervaise has been on looking for ideas.
TMC wrote: ↑January 11th, 2023, 5:53 pm
Bad news sells, its good Leinster are being ignored. Douglas Adams had a great quote “Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws”. Absence from the meeja generally means there is no bad news so its to be welcomed on one level.
However as a tax & licence fee payer the "National Broadcaster" take the biscuit for one eyed focus. Against the Truth on Monday was a very balanced production. Dagger, Tremenjus (whom I like & think he's a good analyst) and Go Easy. 3 Corkmen, very representative, Munster's Limerick contingent mollified by the fact Eddie played a bit for Garryowen. Darren Cave's moustache was up in arms it wasn't included. Highlights and then 10 minutes of have Munster turned the corner (no, not quite yet is the short answer) with a side order of isn't it great Ulster are now completely shi&e instead of us. Leinster's highlights were sufficiently important to the production team that they felt it was appropriate to air them after the ladies interpros - no disrespect to the ladies interpros intended. You'd get deeper analysis of Leinster on BTSport.
The Irish rugby meeja ecosystem suffers from being too small a pond, its not big enough for a contrarian to go against the consensus like Dunphy did with wendyball, Hook tried to be one but he just became a caricature. Kimmage is one but he only dips into rugby now and again and tends to focus on drug use. Of the dedicated rugby journalists no one will do anything to jeopardise their access - which is their livelihood, so its all very safe and samey. End of October there was a lot of concern in Munster about progression and the start to their season, you could see it in what was written at the time. Jackman has been bending over backwards recently to blow smoke up Munster's ass because of his comment a couple of months back he didn't think they'd qualify for the 23/4 Heineken cup. They've lost to Toulouse and us since the end of October, no shame in that. Ulster were on top of the world until the 3rd of December and were all set to overtake Leinster. They've been on a nose dive since that no journalist / analyst predicted. Connacht have been playing well but not getting the results or the credit they deserve - no change there.
For me the best podcast is OTB when they have Andy Dunne on, calls a spade a spade, Leinster tinged maybe but impartial and brutally honest - even about himself. I do like Tremenjus in the Examiner and Murray K is well worth reading too IMO. But if you want honest opinion there tends to be better discussion and analysis here than on most podcasts. It does get plagiarised too, you can spot when Gervaise has been on looking for ideas.
+1 but encourage the Moles into more regular production!
TMC wrote:Bad news sells, its good Leinster are being ignored. Douglas Adams had a great quote “Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws”. Absence from the meeja generally means there is no bad news so its to be welcomed on one level.
However as a tax & licence fee payer the "National Broadcaster" take the biscuit for one eyed focus. Against the Truth on Monday was a very balanced production. Dagger, Tremenjus (whom I like & think he's a good analyst) and Go Easy. 3 Corkmen, very representative, Munster's Limerick contingent mollified by the fact Eddie played a bit for Garryowen. Darren Cave's moustache was up in arms it wasn't included. Highlights and then 10 minutes of have Munster turned the corner (no, not quite yet is the short answer) with a side order of isn't it great Ulster are now completely shi&e instead of us. Leinster's highlights were sufficiently important to the production team that they felt it was appropriate to air them after the ladies interpros - no disrespect to the ladies interpros intended. You'd get deeper analysis of Leinster on BTSport.
The Irish rugby meeja ecosystem suffers from being too small a pond, its not big enough for a contrarian to go against the consensus like Dunphy did with wendyball, Hook tried to be one but he just became a caricature. Kimmage is one but he only dips into rugby now and again and tends to focus on drug use. Of the dedicated rugby journalists no one will do anything to jeopardise their access - which is their livelihood, so its all very safe and samey. End of October there was a lot of concern in Munster about progression and the start to their season, you could see it in what was written at the time. Jackman has been bending over backwards recently to blow smoke up Munster's ass because of his comment a couple of months back he didn't think they'd qualify for the 23/4 Heineken cup. They've lost to Toulouse and us since the end of October, no shame in that. Ulster were on top of the world until the 3rd of December and were all set to overtake Leinster. They've been on a nose dive since that no journalist / analyst predicted. Connacht have been playing well but not getting the results or the credit they deserve - no change there.
For me the best podcast is OTB when they have Andy Dunne on, calls a spade a spade, Leinster tinged maybe but impartial and brutally honest - even about himself. I do like Tremenjus in the Examiner and Murray K is well worth reading too IMO. But if you want honest opinion there tends to be better discussion and analysis here than on most podcasts. It does get plagiarised too, you can spot when Gervaise has been on looking for ideas.
Eddie was so on top of his brief last Monday that he had Ulsters recent collapse as starting in Sale and continuing against La Rochelle and then Leinster.
TMC wrote: ↑January 11th, 2023, 5:53 pm
Bad news sells, its good Leinster are being ignored. Douglas Adams had a great quote “Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws”. Absence from the meeja generally means there is no bad news so its to be welcomed on one level.
However as a tax & licence fee payer the "National Broadcaster" take the biscuit for one eyed focus. Against the Truth on Monday was a very balanced production. Dagger, Tremenjus (whom I like & think he's a good analyst) and Go Easy. 3 Corkmen, very representative, Munster's Limerick contingent mollified by the fact Eddie played a bit for Garryowen. Darren Cave's moustache was up in arms it wasn't included. Highlights and then 10 minutes of have Munster turned the corner (no, not quite yet is the short answer) with a side order of isn't it great Ulster are now completely shi&e instead of us. Leinster's highlights were sufficiently important to the production team that they felt it was appropriate to air them after the ladies interpros - no disrespect to the ladies interpros intended. You'd get deeper analysis of Leinster on BTSport.
The Irish rugby meeja ecosystem suffers from being too small a pond, its not big enough for a contrarian to go against the consensus like Dunphy did with wendyball, Hook tried to be one but he just became a caricature. Kimmage is one but he only dips into rugby now and again and tends to focus on drug use. Of the dedicated rugby journalists no one will do anything to jeopardise their access - which is their livelihood, so its all very safe and samey. End of October there was a lot of concern in Munster about progression and the start to their season, you could see it in what was written at the time. Jackman has been bending over backwards recently to blow smoke up Munster's ass because of his comment a couple of months back he didn't think they'd qualify for the 23/4 Heineken cup. They've lost to Toulouse and us since the end of October, no shame in that. Ulster were on top of the world until the 3rd of December and were all set to overtake Leinster. They've been on a nose dive since that no journalist / analyst predicted. Connacht have been playing well but not getting the results or the credit they deserve - no change there.
For me the best podcast is OTB when they have Andy Dunne on, calls a spade a spade, Leinster tinged maybe but impartial and brutally honest - even about himself. I do like Tremenjus in the Examiner and Murray K is well worth reading too IMO. But if you want honest opinion there tends to be better discussion and analysis here than on most podcasts. It does get plagiarised too, you can spot when Gervaise has been on looking for ideas.
+1 but encourage the Moles into more regular production!
+2 - plus greater regularity and frequency from the Blues Talk TV Trio would be fab!!!
