Gloucester Vs Leinster, Saturday 14th January 2023

[wixfjord]

Loads of talk about our scrum, so decided to actually see what happened today.

Read it for yourself or take a look at the game lock timestamps here. Pretty sure I've captured them all, but not 100% on that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPfrEWl ... Try-lights

In total, from what I can see, we gave away 4 scrum pens and we gained 3.

There was also a number of 'early engage' free kicks given away. 2 to Glos and 2 for us.

Milne gave away two pens when he was on.

I think people might have a confirmation bias about the scrum which makes them see it in a negative light.

In summary, it was absolutely fine. Not dominant, but not dominated either.

On our ball, we generally sought to get the ball away lightning quick and get Doris or JGP moving. We made massive gains from using the scrum as a launch for our moves. If we had've kept the ball in we probably could've milked a pen or two, but we got it away as quickly as possible and made huge yards because of it.

They had a different approach. Much slower to get the ball away and tried the shove a few times. They made some big efforts, but Porter/Mike gave away 1 penalty each. Hardly a 'major problem' and particularly we're down two big TH locks in Jenkins/McCarthy along with Tadhg.


=======

6.35 Glos put in. Good contest, scrum stable. Carreras kicks to corner.

9.28 Leinster put in. Stable scrum, lightning channel 1 ball that Doris takes quickly and makes 4-5 yards.

12.58 Leinster put in. We get nudge on. Scrum turns around and reset. On second put in Glos front rows go down but we go channel 1. Clean ball and Doris wheels away again making metres.

17.08 Leinster put in. Free kick to Glos for early engage.

19.40 Leinster put in. Quick strike and this time JGP scoots away making 5-6 metres. Very quick ball to Osborne.

21.24 Leinster put in. Free kick to Leinster for early engage.

35.01 Glos put in. With Porter off and Milne on Glos go for a second shove and get their first scrum pen. PEN GLOS

38.02 Glos put in. Big shove from Glos. Ackerman moves into front row and penalty given away by Mike. PEN GLOS

41.35 Leinster put in. Free kick to Leinster for early engage. We choose to scrum again. After a few resets we get very clear ball and JGP sprints away. From first phase we get ball to their 22 making 20+ metres.

45.08 Glos put in. They go for shove but no movement. They clear ball to backs.

48.45 Leinster put in. Glos front row go down and we win the pen. PEN LEINSTER

50.08. Glos put in. Glos win pen for Porter standing up. PEN GLOS

54.15. Glos put in. Free kick Glos for early engage.

56.04. Leinster put in. We go through them and win pen. PEN LEINSTER

58.02. Leinster put in. After reset we again push forward. Glos penalised for illegal bind and we win pen. PEN LEINSTER

66.29. Leinster put in. With Doris off for yellow we put Osborne in. Clean ball which McCarthy kicks low into touch in their 22.

73.39 Glos put in. Milne penalised for elbow going down. Deeny on at this stage also. PEN GLOS

[Blue boy in Reading]

There have been a few comments about the Gloucester fans forum and how fair / objective it might be. Their discussion of today’s game is that they were playing “Ireland, sorry Leinster”, which says it all.

I don’t mind. It’s a great sign that they feel that a province the size of Leinster, with the population of Leinster, has unfair advantages over them.

And the fact is, we do. Our team is full of Leinster lads!

Great performance today, for January. Will need to improve by May, but that’s normal. Bring on Racing!

[Twist]

I had a glance over at their forum too and most of it was admiration of the Leinster back line play.

There were some comments that you could take umbrage at, but it’s their playground and they make the rules of play so I’m OK with that.

Also they’re not wrong when they say they’re effectively playing against a tier 1 nation, but it was acknowledged that the bulk of our players came through our academy too.

Overall I would give their forum a mark of probably great craic to go for pints with and the slagging would be good natured and on point…

Theyre calling us a “Tier 1 nation” as a way to undermine us though. As though we’re cheating by having really good players. Its completely stupid. We have a lot of internationals because Leinster produces a lot of players of that standard.

And they couple it with talk about our supposedly massive budget. Who was our last big name signing? They don’t even know what our budget is. How many of them do you think had heard of Jamie Osborne before this year?

They keep laying into the URC for being uncompetitive. But the Ospreys (13th in URC) ran us a lot closer than Glaws (3rd in the prem).

They dont mention that we have to endure the IRFU nudging players like Joey towards other provinces. They ignore the hammering we gave Racing and their billionaire owner. They’re poorly informed whingers.

Carping about unfair advantages that dont actually exist is obviously preferable to giving credit to Leinster for focussing on good coaching and maximising youth development

[Dave Cahill]

Who cares? It's just typical colonialist English exceptionalism

[ronk]

Super post. Teams that need to win the scrum battle to have a chance are going to be willing to roll the dice on the ref calls and see how they do in the collapse lottery. Sometimes a ref takes your side and your numbers come up. They attacked us with secondary shoves often on their ball, they made some gains but we offset that with go forward ball.

I thought a few of the resets were collapses that they got away with but the ref was watching us. Glos get home reffing but the ref lets it be a contest.

Respectable performance where we were secure on our own ball. We'll have worse days though.

[blockhead]

Great to see Cian Healy come on for his 100th Heino appearance.
The same day that Ospreys achieved the same feat!

[MylesNaGapoleen]

comedy gold from that Gloucester forum. a few munster exiles on there whingeing. like Richy, who would love to see owen farrell win the heineken cup in the final against leinster with a drop goal, after he polaxed one of our players before that with a no arms tackle to the head.


http://www.rugb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=250

Lots of moaning about budgets but more appreciation of how good we are using academy and local players.

apart from the whiny munster exiles on that forum...the majority of glaws fans seem sound. they must be hurting now...the gulf in class was bigger than boris johnsons combover.

[Oldschoolsocks]

I had a glance over at their forum too and most of it was admiration of the Leinster back line play.

There were some comments that you could take umbrage at, but it’s their playground and they make the rules of play so I’m OK with that.

Also they’re not wrong when they say they’re effectively playing against a tier 1 nation, but it was acknowledged that the bulk of our players came through our academy too.

Overall I would give their forum a mark of probably great craic to go for pints with and the slagging would be good natured and on point…

Theyre calling us a “Tier 1 nation” as a way to undermine us though. As though we’re cheating by having really good players. Its completely stupid. We have a lot of internationals because Leinster produces a lot of players of that standard.

And they couple it with talk about our supposedly massive budget. Who was our last big name signing? They don’t even know what our budget is. How many of them do you think had heard of Jamie Osborne before this year?

They keep laying into the URC for being uncompetitive. But the Ospreys (13th in URC) ran us a lot closer than Glaws (3rd in the prem).

They dont mention that we have to endure the IRFU nudging players like Joey towards other provinces. They ignore the hammering we gave Racing and their billionaire owner. They’re poorly informed whingers.

Carping about unfair advantages that dont actually exist is obviously preferable to giving credit to Leinster for focussing on good coaching and maximising youth development

The budget stuff is pie in the sky, I don't know what our budget is for playing staff. Ultimately their real problem is that they need to manage within a salary cap, we don’t everything else is just noise.

Re the Tier 1 nation, I think it was acknowledged that most are from the academy and not bought in.

At the end of the day I wouldn’t be reading too much into what a Glaws fan is writing on a Glaws forum, it’s their place to vent

[ronk]

Gloucester have a big disadvantage though. They don't have nearly as good a squad.

If it helps them eat a loss, then fair enough. If they were able to have a better squad, we'd feel the same after a loss.

2 teams in their league collapsed this year, they're hurting and they're seeing how far off they are. Now a large part of the reason for this was killing the Heineken Cup, so I have limited sympathy.

If we're talking about the Ospreys, they won 1 out of their first 10 games this season. But since they've won 4 of 5, losing only to us. And that includes doing the double over the French champions.

[ronk]

The salary cap protects Gloucester from teams like Leicester, Saracens, Bristol who could outspend them. It doesn't hold them back.

We don't have a formal salary cap because the IRFU approve all our contracts. Gloucester can buy who they like.

[blockhead]

comedy gold from that Gloucester forum. a few munster exiles on there whingeing. like Richy, who would love to see owen farrell win the heineken cup in the final against leinster with a drop goal, after he polaxed one of our players before that with a no arms tackle to the head.


http://www.rugb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=250

Lots of moaning about budgets but more appreciation of how good we are using academy and local players.

apart from the whiny munster exiles on that forum...the majority of glaws fans seem sound. they must be hurting now...the gulf in class was bigger than boris johnsons combover.

This is my favourite post

The Provinces have no history beyond the last 25 or so years. They are manufactured and financed.
Glad I support a real club, not a manufactured geographical region with little history ...

Leinster versus Ulster is the oldest fixture in Irish rugby, with the first ever interprovincial match taking place between the sides in 1875

[ronk]

Gloucester were founded in 1873 so they have us there

[suisse]

Maybe there should be a new thread set up up called...

What other fans say about us?

Pointless additions to game threads. They're a very mediocre team of rugby players at this level playing for a well known club in front of the overrated Shed. Getting thrashed by teams like leinster twice a year must really hurt.

[suisse]

comedy gold from that Gloucester forum. a few munster exiles on there whingeing. like Richy, who would love to see owen farrell win the heineken cup in the final against leinster with a drop goal, after he polaxed one of our players before that with a no arms tackle to the head.


http://www.rugb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=250

Lots of moaning about budgets but more appreciation of how good we are using academy and local players.

apart from the whiny munster exiles on that forum...the majority of glaws fans seem sound. they must be hurting now...the gulf in class was bigger than boris johnsons combover.

This is my favourite post

The Provinces have no history beyond the last 25 or so years. They are manufactured and financed.
Glad I support a real club, not a manufactured geographical region with little history ...

Leinster versus Ulster is the oldest fixture in Irish rugby, with the first ever interprovincial match taking place between the sides in 1875

Well, Leinster games pre and post 1995 are two very things, as anyone who was in Donnybrook and Lansdowne back then can say. Occasional games against the other provinces and touring sides is not exactly what you think of when you think about a club. I went to leinster games with my dad but the dream was always playing for Ireland. I don't think too many kids born in 1980s Dublin area dreamed of representing leinster rugby the same way kids born in 2010 are.

But so what. This is our team. It doesn't matter what leinster was pre 1995, or the structure of rugby meaning we're told who we can sign, and we wouldn't be able to out a team with Porter, Furlong, Ryan, JVF, Doris, Sexton, Ringrose and Henshaw without someone else picking up the tab l. And that's before you start adding Sheehan, Kelleher, Baird, Park, Lowe, Keenan etc.

Ultimately, that's how the rugby is organised in Ireland, the rugby they play is often beautiful snd young guys are given a chance to compete at the highest level. Churning out internationals with boys graduating secondary school is something leinster rugby should be proud of. But it isn't a club in the way we think of a club. And, so what.

[Oldschoolsocks]

comedy gold from that Gloucester forum. a few munster exiles on there whingeing. like Richy, who would love to see owen farrell win the heineken cup in the final against leinster with a drop goal, after he polaxed one of our players before that with a no arms tackle to the head.


http://www.rugb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=250

Lots of moaning about budgets but more appreciation of how good we are using academy and local players.

apart from the whiny munster exiles on that forum...the majority of glaws fans seem sound. they must be hurting now...the gulf in class was bigger than boris johnsons combover.

This is my favourite post

The Provinces have no history beyond the last 25 or so years. They are manufactured and financed.
Glad I support a real club, not a manufactured geographical region with little history ...

Leinster versus Ulster is the oldest fixture in Irish rugby, with the first ever interprovincial match taking place between the sides in 1875

Well, Leinster games pre and post 1995 are two very things, as anyone who was in Donnybrook and Lansdowne back then can say. Occasional games against the other provinces and touring sides is not exactly what you think of when you think about a club. I went to leinster games with my dad but the dream was always playing for Ireland. I don't think too many kids born in 1980s Dublin area dreamed of representing leinster rugby the same way kids born in 2010 are.

But so what. This is our team. It doesn't matter what leinster was pre 1995, or the structure of rugby meaning we're told who we can sign, and we wouldn't be able to out a team with Porter, Furlong, Ryan, JVF, Doris, Sexton, Ringrose and Henshaw without someone else picking up the tab l. And that's before you start adding Sheehan, Kelleher, Baird, Park, Lowe, Keenan etc.

Ultimately, that's how the rugby is organised in Ireland, the rugby they play is often beautiful snd young guys are given a chance to compete at the highest level. Churning out internationals with boys graduating secondary school is something leinster rugby should be proud of. But it isn't a club in the way we think of a club. And, so what.

Yup

[Dave Cahill]

Well, Leinster games pre and post 1995 are two very things, as anyone who was in Donnybrook and Lansdowne back then can say. Occasional games against the other provinces and touring sides is not exactly what you think of when you think about a club. I went to leinster games with my dad but the dream was always playing for Ireland. I don't think too many kids born in 1980s Dublin area dreamed of representing leinster rugby the same way kids born in 2010 are.

Which is pretty much exactly the same as the club game in England was until 1987 - games against other teams in their locale, an occasional touring side, and one knockout compeition

[curates_egg]

How well did Cian Healy play today? Thought he was magnificent in scrum, maul and around the field. Looked like a top class THP

Yeah. Credit where credit is due: he was very good. I may have been prematurely writing his epitaph.
He was a nuisance in rucks too. There was one ruck where he took out three of their players.

[Laighin Break]

How well did Cian Healy play today? Thought he was magnificent in scrum, maul and around the field. Looked like a top class THP

Yeah. Credit where credit is due: he was very good. I may have been prematurely writing his epitaph.
He was a nuisance in rucks too. There was one ruck where he took out three of their players.

At maultime too. Won us a turnover snagging their scrumhalf just as he took the ball out

[Keith]

I had a glance over at their forum too and most of it was admiration of the Leinster back line play.

There were some comments that you could take umbrage at, but it’s their playground and they make the rules of play so I’m OK with that.

Also they’re not wrong when they say they’re effectively playing against a tier 1 nation, but it was acknowledged that the bulk of our players came through our academy too.

Overall I would give their forum a mark of probably great craic to go for pints with and the slagging would be good natured and on point…

Theyre calling us a “Tier 1 nation” as a way to undermine us though. As though we’re cheating by having really good players. Its completely stupid. We have a lot of internationals because Leinster produces a lot of players of that standard.

And they couple it with talk about our supposedly massive budget. Who was our last big name signing? They don’t even know what our budget is. How many of them do you think had heard of Jamie Osborne before this year?

They keep laying into the URC for being uncompetitive. But the Ospreys (13th in URC) ran us a lot closer than Glaws (3rd in the prem).

They dont mention that we have to endure the IRFU nudging players like Joey towards other provinces. They ignore the hammering we gave Racing and their billionaire owner. They’re poorly informed whingers.

Carping about unfair advantages that dont actually exist is obviously preferable to giving credit to Leinster for focussing on good coaching and maximising youth development

The budget stuff is pie in the sky, I don't know what our budget is for playing staff. Ultimately their real problem is that they need to manage within a salary cap, we don’t everything else is just noise.

Re the Tier 1 nation, I think it was acknowledged that most are from the academy and not bought in.

At the end of the day I wouldn’t be reading too much into what a Glaws fan is writing on a Glaws forum, it’s their place to vent

It's hardly pie in the sky, our salary budget is clearly over £5 million pounds. But why should we have have budget as low as them? It's not our fault their league is in turnmoil. Also we use our budget to retain academy developed players and sign quality coaches, hardly the worst way to use the higher wage bill.

[artaneboy]

Gloucester were founded in 1873 so they have us there

Yeah, but when did they first play Ulster??


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