Ospreys v Leinster Saturday 7th 19.35 TG4

[Blue Man]

Kelleher always seems a better scrummager than Sheehan to my uneducated eye. Dan has better darts and his all round game is currently marginally better.
I think McBryde needs to take some responsibility for our scrum which I always feel is a weakness against top sides

[curates_egg]

Was I tripping or did I see Hairsprays going in with the head a couple of times at the breakdown? I could have sworn I heard one of our lads shout at the ref "again they're going in with the head"

It makes no difference to the result, but I can't abide gamesmanship like that going unpunished

Tipuric definitely had a cheap shot (or two) at VDF.

[hugonaut]

Really good performance from Jack Conan – lots of carries, and lots of gainline. It's winter-time, you need a No8 who gets go-forward. He got loads for us. As a fan, that was pretty much exactly the kind of performance that I wanted to see from him. He has lost his spot to Doris, and he's firing back. Don't know if I have ever seen him as fired up as when he won the turnover.

[curates_egg]

Leinsters scrum has become a huge issue.

There's not too many better than Ospreys front five. However, we brought in Jenkins for a reason and have given Joe Mc as much game time as we do. The scrum is not just about props.

I'm reasonably confident that Leinster (and Ireland) now have a scrum which can survive almost anything that will be thrown at them. However, Wales can still produce a big and difficult team to play us in the 6N.

Our first choice players are as good as anything out there, the problem is the lack of depth and lack of players coming through at LH and TH for Ireland and Leinster.

Yes. I would have liked to see either Milne or Vakh given a start in this game. But it would have been painful. Vakh got smoked a couple of times after he came on.

[RoboProp]

Was I tripping or did I see Hairsprays going in with the head a couple of times at the breakdown? I could have sworn I heard one of our lads shout at the ref "again they're going in with the head"

It makes no difference to the result, but I can't abide gamesmanship like that going unpunished

Tipuric definitely had a cheap shot (or two) at VDF.

Between their fans and the cheap shots and the looks of incredulity on their players faces whenever they're pinged for something, all this served to remind me they're really are the insert colourful metaphor of choice. Delighted we beat them

[Blue Man]

There's not too many better than Ospreys front five. However, we brought in Jenkins for a reason and have given Joe Mc as much game time as we do. The scrum is not just about props.

I'm reasonably confident that Leinster (and Ireland) now have a scrum which can survive almost anything that will be thrown at them. However, Wales can still produce a big and difficult team to play us in the 6N.

Our first choice players are as good as anything out there, the problem is the lack of depth and lack of players coming through at LH and TH for Ireland and Leinster.

Yes. I would have liked to see either Milne or Vakh given a start in this game. But it would have been painful. Vakh got smoked a couple of times after he came on.

Scrum was destroyed when Vakh and Milne were still on the bench.

[Blueberry]

Really good performance from the Ospreys and we had to dig deep. It will stand to us.

Thought Conan was immense in the second half, huge performance.

JOB and Higo showed their class and Ross is without a shadow of a doubt the best outfall in Ireland bar J10. Cannot understand anyone thinking otherwise.

Enjoyable to silence the Osprey fans booing.....

Yes scrum a worry.

[wixfjord]

With Jenkins, Furlong/Mike and Porter our scrum is a weapon.

With Deeny/Molony in the row tonight it was always going to be under pressure against a strong Ospreys front row. That was well flagged before the game.

We've clearly got depth issues behind our first 6 front rowers though.

You’re saying Deeny and Molony were under pressure but it’s down to a lack of front row depth? That doesn’t make sense. Also, Mike (listed as a weapon) started tonight and we gave away three scrum penalties when he was on.
Gather your thoughts and come back.

Weird comment.

I said both are an issue. Both are. It’s not a zero sum discussion.
Milne, Vakh and Clarkson are big steps down and Jenkins is clearly a big plus to our scrum, with McCarthy also a big scrimmaging unit.

Mike is a solid scrummager in good form and having Deeny behind him tonight won’t have helped.

Our first choice front 5 is a solid scrummaging unit as we’ve seen.

[Ruckedtobits]

Powerful front-five, kicking half-backs, light speedy wingers & a place-kicking full back who can boot it miles. Ospreys should play their rugby in S Africa!

[wwed]

Delighted to see Jack Conan shine as match went on - hopefully give him confidence to find his best form again.

Disappointed with Cormac Foley tonite- thought he might be good option for us but speed of delivery a real problem and could see the difference once McCarthy came on.

Osbourne really good again - he is turning into a really valuable player given versatility.

Unfortunately Vakh doesn’t seem to have what’s needed at scrum time at professional level. Milne still looks a good option though and hopefully will benefit from more game time.

Still have hope for Harry - classic case of a player who needs to learn his trade on the pitch and think he can still come good.

Not sure about Deeny, no doubt on attitude and his skills good, but not sure has the power required.

[Blue Man]

With Jenkins, Furlong/Mike and Porter our scrum is a weapon.

With Deeny/Molony in the row tonight it was always going to be under pressure against a strong Ospreys front row. That was well flagged before the game.

We've clearly got depth issues behind our first 6 front rowers though.

You’re saying Deeny and Molony were under pressure but it’s down to a lack of front row depth? That doesn’t make sense. Also, Mike (listed as a weapon) started tonight and we gave away three scrum penalties when he was on.
Gather your thoughts and come back.

Weird comment.

I said both are an issue. Both are. It’s not a zero sum discussion.
Milne, Vakh and Clarkson are big steps down and Jenkins is clearly a big plus to our scrum, with McCarthy also a big scrimmaging unit.

Mike is a solid scrummager in good form and having Deeny behind him tonight won’t have helped.

Our first choice front 5 is a solid scrummaging unit as we’ve seen.

You need a bit longer to get your story straight

[Blue Man]

.

Unfortunately Vakh doesn’t seem to have what’s needed at scrum time at professional level. Milne still looks a good option though and hopefully will benefit from more game time.

Both were penalized as part of a scrum that was under pressure. How do you conclude that Vakh doesn’t have what’s needed but Milne looks an option?

[ronk]

Tough day at the office in terrible conditions away against a powerful tight 5, an effective and canny backrow and some big performances elsewhere.

We made a lot of mistakes and they made a mess of our breakdown. But I thought that were were looking to stretch them and it just wasn't coming off. We kept at them and played a little smarter and the pressure told. Ospreys must be sick to somehow have not come away with the win, but it shows the character and tenacity of Leinster to keep the pressure on.

I'll have to watch it again, I didn't really see what was so alarming about Foley and Harry Byrne. Mistakes were there but there was enough to see that they're talented players who won't always make those errors.

Today seems a good example of why Ross Byrne is such a good player. Harry Byrne is as good or better at executing basically any skill. Ross Byrne doesn't try anything he's not capable of, but that also means that he gives nothing for free to the defense.

With a run of games Harry will, I think, restrain himself a little bit more at the right times.

[Oldschoolsocks]

I’d be falling on the side of Harry needs time to get into his groove

[riocard911]

I’d be falling on the side of Harry needs time to get into his groove

Mise freisin. And how and when he gets that time I'll leave to Leo et al to decide.

[Serb]

Just checked the stats there and Conan carried for 106 meters in that game. Made 16 carries total, averaging 6.6 meters per carry. Insane stats.

Also made 9 tackles, joint second highest for Leinster.

[hugonaut]

Tough day at the office in terrible conditions away against a powerful tight 5, an effective and canny backrow and some big performances elsewhere.

We made a lot of mistakes and they made a mess of our breakdown. But I thought that were were looking to stretch them and it just wasn't coming off. We kept at them and played a little smarter and the pressure told. Ospreys must be sick to somehow have not come away with the win, but it shows the character and tenacity of Leinster to keep the pressure on.

I'll have to watch it again, I didn't really see what was so alarming about Foley and Harry Byrne. Mistakes were there but there was enough to see that they're talented players who won't always make those errors.

Today seems a good example of why Ross Byrne is such a good player. Harry Byrne is as good or better at executing basically any skill. Ross Byrne doesn't try anything he's not capable of, but that also means that he gives nothing for free to the defense.

With a run of games Harry will, I think, restrain himself a little bit more at the right times.

The Ospreys can be a good team on the basis of that showing. It's surprising that they are so far down the table. They've had two draws [@ Scarlets, vs Stormers] and a one point lose to the Lions at home ... those are some tight margins.

Bear in mind that they were missing Adam Beard, Dan Lydiate, George North, Alex Cuthbert, Rhys Webb, Gareth Anscombe, Owen Watkin – five B&I Lions and two Grand Slam-winning Welsh internationals.

Putting injury to one side, they should be able to put out a really strong team outside the test windows [see below]:

Backs [15-9]: Kai Evans, Alex Cuthbert, George North, Keiran Williams, Keelin Giles, Gareth Anscombe, Rhys Webb;
Forwards [1-8]: Nicky Smith, Dewi Lake, Thomas Francis, Adam Beard, Alun-Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Morgan Morris;
Subs [16-23]: Scott Baldwin, Gareth Thomas, Tom Botha, Bradley Davies, Jac Morgan, Reuben Morgan-Williams, Steve Myler, Owen Watkin.

[curates_egg]

Today seems a good example of why Ross Byrne is such a good player. Harry Byrne is as good or better at executing basically any skill. Ross Byrne doesn't try anything he's not capable of, but that also means that he gives nothing for free to the defense.

With a run of games Harry will, I think, restrain himself a little bit more at the right times.

I’m happy to be optimistic about Harry and hope he does get a run of games. But I think you’re unnecessarily damning Ross Byrne with faint praise.

I thought last night was a classic example of how underestimated he is. He made the last two tries by taking the ball close to the line and giving perfect passes. He takes the ball to the line much better these days.
His kicking from hand and defence is excellent.
About the only skill he is missing is carrying.

[Ruckedtobits]

Some of the comments / analysis on this thread appears to overlook that rugby is above all a team sport and our team were not as good as we expected. To somewhat balance that viewpoint, it's worth remembering Ospreys also had a number of players missing and changes in their Squad from their last (winning) performance against Cardiff.

Overall I concur with @hugonaut that Ospreys should be higher in the league and look like a decent side who should challenge for trophies.

Our scrum was poor. My analysis, largely because we held some and were driven backwards in many others, was that our second-row was underpowered and occasionally both Cian & Big Mike lost their individual battles against Francis & Smith. In general, we were just about able to survive our own ball if it was fast channel one, but not otherwise. Selecting Deeny was a surprise. Starting him was a bigger surprise. The biggest surprise however was substituting Molony and not Deeny.

Our starting half-backs were poor. They were not provided with consistently good quality ball from any facet of the game in the first half, plus a lot of the play was moving left to right, which certainly doesn't favour Foley's passing ability. Harry Byrne doesn't play with any pragmatism. Whether kicks or breaks, he aims for the "perfect", not for the "possible". Too often this resulted in mistakes which can't be afforded in games of this nature where our team is under pressure.

Ospreys aren't a 'nice' team. They're hard-nosed, abrasive, aggressive, complaining and typically Welsh in their attitude towards Leinster. They will always consider that rugby is about who is harder, tougher and least likeable, not who is more skillful, talented, faster or smarter. They love the prospect of playing teams like Leinster, particularly on a cold, wet, windy winter evening. Other than the result, they will have loved last night's game, and they even had a referee to boo off the pitch. All in all, almost a perfect night.

Leocaster knew that we had some risks in selection - second-row and half-back most obviously. However, other areas worked better, N'gatai & Osborne in particular, but not least our back three of Hugo, JO'B & Larmour. Conan & Sheehan were excellent going forward, but not perfect. Penny found it tough going and may have learned from seeing Tipuric at first hand.

Personally, delighted we came through that evening with a win. It didn't look likely for almost 70 minutes. Coaches & players will have learned good lessons and even we, as fans, got a reminder that we're far from invulnerable against a hard-nosed, strong, pack.

[alanair]

There was a huge amount of pressure on Mike tonight. We were underpowered in the second row, and Cian always struggles against Francis. He's had problems with him going back years.

In fairness Dave , you DID flag up the Healy V Francis ‘struggles’ in advance of this match . Strangely tho ., if you knew then Leocaster would have been aware also