Munster v Leinster St Stephen's Day 19.35 TG4

[wixfjord]

Bizarre to say that starting as the senior second row in a winning effort in Thomond against Kleyn/Beirne/POM will 'set Baird back'.
I don't think that's true at all.

He's clearly now seen as a blindside but the ability to play second row to a high enough level will stand to him for both Leinster & Ireland.

Wasn't as impactful as McCarthy but had some big hits and defensive maul/lineout worked well. Certainly not 'out of his depth', whatever that means.

It was likely always the plan to take him off early to have him for Connacht game and probably expedited by Deegan's yellow.

It's funny that some people are saying Bard played well and some are saying the opposite. I thought was ok personally, certainly not "out of his depth", rediculous comment. Munster brought incredible intensity in that first half and made it difficult for everyone, which makes it difficult for a player like Baird to shine. I also think he's having his best season to date and that's without the flashy highlight reel stuff. So saying "hopefully he'll come good" is also rediculous.

I'm not sure what he did to play badly? He's clearly now thought of as a 6 and the poorer side of his game has always been playing second row in tight forward battles.

He was the senior second row last night against a first choice Munster pack having not started there since February and did the nuts and bolts stuffs needed.

I've long been a critique of Baird, but this season he has really upped a level and I think games like last night will be welcomed by Leo/Faz. He and McCarthy really led the pack and put a lot of pressure on Munster defensively.

His borderline hit on Carbery that had Joey on the ground for a few minutes was lovely too. Exactly what you want.

[Blueberry]

I think the really encouraging thing is we now have 5 locks Jenkins, Ryan, Ross, Joe and Baird and I have no issue at all with any of them there. They all bring slightly different things too.

It hasn't traditionally been an area of great depth or strength for Leinster and we now have 5 quality players there.

Massive depth required to compete in two comps and we are doing a great job across the pitch in this regard.

[RoboProp]

Joltin' Joe McCarthy has an uncanny talent to find the soft shoulder in contact and makes yards where he has no right to. The kid is a special talent

Ringrose, what can you say about him, he just goes from strength to strength

Busby shat the bed, no concern for player welfare. It seemed it was open season on Leinster players' necks. I can tolerate some questionable calls, but when you see 3 high tackles go unpunished in as many minutes, he can get absolutely fooked.

Deegan may not have had his best game but fair fawks to him for not having any of POMs pigeon chested bluster

[CiaranIrl]

Bizarre to say that starting as the senior second row in a winning effort in Thomond against Kleyn/Beirne/POM will 'set Baird back'.
I don't think that's true at all.

He's clearly now seen as a blindside but the ability to play second row to a high enough level will stand to him for both Leinster & Ireland.

Wasn't as impactful as McCarthy but had some big hits and defensive maul/lineout worked well. Certainly not 'out of his depth', whatever that means.

It was likely always the plan to take him off early to have him for Connacht game and probably expedited by Deegan's yellow.

It's funny that some people are saying Bard played well and some are saying the opposite. I thought was ok personally, certainly not "out of his depth", rediculous comment. Munster brought incredible intensity in that first half and made it difficult for everyone, which makes it difficult for a player like Baird to shine. I also think he's having his best season to date and that's without the flashy highlight reel stuff. So saying "hopefully he'll come good" is also rediculous.

Absolutely crazy to say he was out of his depth or that it was a set back for Baird, but I was one that said he didn't have a great game, and I still think it. He had moments, like big hits, but he didn't do the basics of lock play well enough - hitting rucks, protecting rucks, guaranteeing clean ball etc. Still looks like a phenomenal flanker, but needs to be able to adapt better for lock play. Scrum was also better after he was subbed.

[Oldschoolsocks]

...
Absolutely crazy to say he was out of his depth or that it was a set back for Baird, ...

Yeah but to be hugely charitable to the poster who wrote this he just hasn't really watched the match.


A more cynical person might suggest that M#1 is engaging in concern trolling...

[Theleinsterlad]

To my knowledge Coombe’s made no big hits in defence last night and to me that’s what makes him the difference between a ok player and exceptional talent. Yes he’s a big lump of a lad and he carry’s well and makes the odd jackal but when out against the likes of McCarthy last night, my hid the difference in effects on their team was a massive divide. I too thought Baird was probably under appreciated more because McCarthy had a massive game, than the game passing him by. I need to watch it again but thought he also put in the hits when needed and had a good solid game.

Nick McCarthy is just not up to it in my books. Foley is a better scrum half and it told so much when McGrath came in and cleaned up the rucks immediately for quicker ball.

[Blue Man]

In terms of winners in blue from that game last night, for me McCarthy, Baird and Osborne really put down a marker.

Baird wasn't his usual all action self, but had some massive hits and lineout worked well.

Osborne showed again what an incredible talent he is. Just turned 21 and putting in performances like that across the backline is amazing. And yet he still goes under the radar I feel. He'll actually improve far more because he's on a totally different trajectory to a guy who has played Senior Cup and come in via the traditional Academy/AIL 1A route.

I think Nick McCarthy will be very unhappy about his game. Munster made it very tough but he looked a bit lost, passing wasn't brilliant and Luke made a huge difference coming in.

I think that’s spot on Wixfjord. Baird was solid and encouragingly his discipline was good. I think he’s out 6 going forward.
Osborne is a fantastic prospect but my big concern is that he is that he is being moved around too much (he’s started at 15, 11, 13 and 12 this season). I think he has the qualities to be a top class international full back so would like to see him play there or on the wing.
Hate to say it but McCarthy isn’t a credible scrum half in professional rugby. We really need to produce some 9s and I fear either Murphy nor Gunne are the answer.

[wixfjord]

@CianTracey1

Made this point before but we saw it again in Thomond Park last night:

Despite Leinster's strength in depth, they are still very reliant on certain players when certain others aren't providing back-up.

Andrew Porter & Dan Sheehan playing 80 minutes each being the case in point.

No idea what he's on about here.

Whatever about Porter (who's playing 80 because we have so many injuries in the front row), Sheehan is literally backed up by a guy who's equally highly rated and is Ireland's second best hooker.

If anything we've shown this season that we're *less* reliant on seemingly important players like Sexton, Furlong, Henshaw, Keenan, Lowe, all of whom have had periods out.

[blockhead]

Having watched most of the game back on YouTube, I find the Birch Bashing on this thread confusing. What did he say that was so offensive? he seemed fairly neutral to me, praised both teams when they did something praiseworthy.
Seems to me that our collective skin has gotten a lot thinner over the last few years which is odd.
Get used to it. When Leinster play, only Leinster fans want Leinster to win, eveyone else is rooting for the other team.
And that's a Europe wide phenomenon.
Embrace it!

[Blueberry]

@CianTracey1

Made this point before but we saw it again in Thomond Park last night:

Despite Leinster's strength in depth, they are still very reliant on certain players when certain others aren't providing back-up.

Andrew Porter & Dan Sheehan playing 80 minutes each being the case in point.

No idea what he's on about here.

Whatever about Porter (who's playing 80 because we have so many injuries in the front row), Sheehan is literally backed up by a guy who's equally highly rated and is Ireland's second best hooker.

If anything we've shown this season that we're *less* reliant on seemingly important players like Sexton, Furlong, Henshaw, Keenan, Lowe, all of whom have had periods out.

Always some moaning Michael, our depth is improving , picking hooker is bizarre, two best hookers in Ireland by a country mile play for Leinster and Mckee looks a real prospect too....

[Oldschool]

On the face of it this game was won and lost in the space of 14 minutes.
14 minutes that would warrant close analysis.
Max is getting a bit of stick for making a couple of mistakes in an otherwise good game.
It was his YC that sparked a relatively lack lustre Leinster into action, well done Max but don't make a habit of it.
Leinster basically went into pick and go mode, owned the ball but very importantly made a lot of ground doing so.
Then the first try in the YC period. A try of very high skill straight off the training ground, I'd have preferred to see it for the first time in this years HCC final.
Next Dan Sheehan sees the Red Sea opening in front of him and he's touching down before Munster or anyone realises it.
That's the overview but as another poster put it earlier that period is going to be analysed in depth.
In the meantime- Arise Dan Sheehan I dub thee "Moses"

[riocard911]

Having watched most of the game back on YouTube, I find the Birch Bashing on this thread confusing. What did he say that was so offensive? he seemed fairly neutral to me, praised both teams when they did something praiseworthy.
Seems to me that our collective skin has gotten a lot thinner over the last few years which is odd.
Get used to it. When Leinster play, only Leinster fans want Leinster to win, eveyone else is rooting for the other team.
And that's a Europe wide phenomenon.
Embrace it!

Mise freisin. I saw the game as Gaeilge, but got the Birch version as Béarla today on the the interweb. I didn't hear anything particularly egregious, other than he maybe bigged up Munster more than they deserved to make the match more exciting for the viewers. Ho-hum...

On another note: Around the 68th minute Munster won a turnover in their own 22. Crowley kicked to touch just just outside it and in the subsequent lineout a Munster hand tapped the ball back into their 22. One phase later Casey kicks the ball out and Leinster get the lineout where the ball crosses the sideline. Why was it not from where Casey had kicked it, as Munster were the ones, who'd taken the ball back in? Or am I missing something?

[desperado]

In terms of winners in blue from that game last night, for me McCarthy, Baird and Osborne really put down a marker.

Baird wasn't his usual all action self, but had some massive hits and lineout worked well.

McCarthy is just a freak of an athlete. His ability to generate huge power off the line is brilliant. Must've made 5 big hits last night that drove a ball carrier back. He can be a real 'enforcer' for us. Still quite loose around the ruck but that will come.

Osborne showed again what an incredible talent he is. Just turned 21 and putting in performances like that across the backline is amazing. And yet he still goes under the radar I feel. He'll actually improve far more because he's on a totally different trajectory to a guy who has played Senior Cup and come in via the traditional Academy/AIL 1A route.

I think Nick McCarthy will be very unhappy about his game. Munster made it very tough but he looked a bit lost, passing wasn't brilliant and Luke made a huge difference coming in.

I also think Deegan will be massively frustrated. He carried really well and was a big presence but that ball strip, knock on and the two pens on the line will haunt him.

Our 13-15 was probably the strongest part of our team but were actually all relatively quiet. However each one had a big moment or two that turned momentum. Ringer with the high ball take, Larmour & Lowe with a turnover and ball strip and Keenan with some lovely attacking inputs.

I thought the ball strip on Deegan was illegal. He was tackled (by Klein I think), and had a least his knee if not his arse on the floor. Easy strip a guy from above as he goes to ground.

[cormac]

Having watched most of the game back on YouTube, I find the Birch Bashing on this thread confusing. What did he say that was so offensive? he seemed fairly neutral to me, praised both teams when they did something praiseworthy.
Seems to me that our collective skin has gotten a lot thinner over the last few years which is odd.
Get used to it. When Leinster play, only Leinster fans want Leinster to win, eveyone else is rooting for the other team.
And that's a Europe wide phenomenon.
Embrace it!

Mise freisin. I saw the game as Gaeilge, but got the Birch version as Béarla today on the the interweb. I didn't hear anything particularly egregious, other than he maybe bigged up Munster more than they deserved to make the match more exciting for the viewers. Ho-hum...

On another note: Around the 68th minute Munster won a turnover in their own 22. Crowley kicked to touch just just outside it and in the subsequent lineout a Munster hand tapped the ball back into their 22. One phase later Casey kicks the ball out and Leinster get the lineout where the ball crosses the sideline. Why was it not from where Casey had kicked it, as Munster were the ones, who'd taken the ball back in? Or am I missing something?

After the ball goes back into the 22 Munster set up a subsequent ruck, so no problem to kick straight to touch then.

[OTT]

IN THE LATEST EPISODE OF THINGS THAT NEVER HAPPENED…


munsternut
munsterfan
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 180
#377
Today, 13:29
I visit here often but tend not to post, but following last night I thought it would be best to share my experience.

I rarely miss a Munster game at home and travel to as many away games as possible.
Around 2016, after having a few bad experiences at Leinster games in Dublin I decided that I would travel for a Leinster v Munster match again.

last night with my son and daughter with me I unfortunately witnessed behaviours from 4 middle aged Leinster fans that have no place at a rugby match.
their discussions throughout the game about “stab city”, how Munster are broke because “most of their fans are unemployed” we’re bad enough, but their need to turnaround at the final whistle infront of 2 kids under 10 and say “**** you, you ****ing losers” and even refer to my kids as poor misfortunes who are forced to “watch this **** every week”.

Only for a friend of mine stepped in, I have no doubt that things would have escalated very quickly.

looking at their forum and some of the comments on here from their “fans” it seems like there is a growing number of Leinster fans who bring a very unwelcome element to the sport.

please note, at no stage did I have any interaction with these men.
Last edited by munsternut; Today, 13:34.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Having watched most of the game back on YouTube, I find the Birch Bashing on this thread confusing. What did he say that was so offensive? he seemed fairly neutral to me, praised both teams when they did something praiseworthy.
Seems to me that our collective skin has gotten a lot thinner over the last few years which is odd.
Get used to it. When Leinster play, only Leinster fans want Leinster to win, eveyone else is rooting for the other team.
And that's a Europe wide phenomenon.
Embrace it!

Mise freisin. I saw the game as Gaeilge, but got the Birch version as Béarla today on the the interweb. I didn't hear anything particularly egregious, other than he maybe bigged up Munster more than they deserved to make the match more exciting for the viewers. Ho-hum...

On another note: Around the 68th minute Munster won a turnover in their own 22. Crowley kicked to touch just just outside it and in the subsequent lineout a Munster hand tapped the ball back into their 22. One phase later Casey kicks the ball out and Leinster get the lineout where the ball crosses the sideline. Why was it not from where Casey had kicked it, as Munster were the ones, who'd taken the ball back in? Or am I missing something?

Nah, there was a ruck in between right?

The big message from that passage of play was that Munster win their own lineout, passed back into tje 22 and ended up defending a Leinster lineout about 10 metres further up the pitch. I’d call that a losing play

[Ruckedtobits]

On another note: Around the 68th minute Munster won a turnover in their own 22. Crowley kicked to touch just just outside it and in the subsequent lineout a Munster hand tapped the ball back into their 22. One phase later Casey kicks the ball out and Leinster get the lineout where the ball crosses the sideline. Why was it not from where Casey had kicked it, as Munster were the ones, who'd taken the ball back in? Or am I missing something?

Totally agree. Thought it at the time and confirmed it on re-watch this morning.

On the matter of Birch's co-commentary, on a number of occasions he comments on PO'M particular expertise or skill but totally ignores that he entered at the side or some other Munster player dud so, which enabled him to get there.

PO'M was credited with one particular turnover / penalty when Porter was penalised for sacking the maul. PO'M had fouled McCarthy in the lineout competition (on his inside / left arm) which prevented McCarthy offloading to the Leinster player in SH role. When McCarthy did the same thing against Byrne, Birch was all over him with his commentary.

To my mind Birch's comments on Leinster players' excellence were grudging, whilst they were effusive about Munster players skills. I accept that, like boxing matches, a fan only sees what his man throws, never what he receives, but lots of Leinster players like Osborne showed huge skills which passed without comment from Birch. That was rarely, if ever, the case for a Munster player.

[Dave Cahill]

IN THE LATEST EPISODE OF THINGS THAT NEVER HAPPENED…


munsternut
munsterfan
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 180
#377
Today, 13:29
I visit here often but tend not to post, but following last night I thought it would be best to share my experience.

I rarely miss a Munster game at home and travel to as many away games as possible.
Around 2016, after having a few bad experiences at Leinster games in Dublin I decided that I would travel for a Leinster v Munster match again.

last night with my son and daughter with me I unfortunately witnessed behaviours from 4 middle aged Leinster fans that have no place at a rugby match.
their discussions throughout the game about “stab city”, how Munster are broke because “most of their fans are unemployed” we’re bad enough, but their need to turnaround at the final whistle infront of 2 kids under 10 and say “**** you, you ****ing losers” and even refer to my kids as poor misfortunes who are forced to “watch this **** every week”.

Only for a friend of mine stepped in, I have no doubt that things would have escalated very quickly.

looking at their forum and some of the comments on here from their “fans” it seems like there is a growing number of Leinster fans who bring a very unwelcome element to the sport.

please note, at no stage did I have any interaction with these men.
Last edited by munsternut; Today, 13:34.

DID THEY GET ANY PENS?

[Ruckedtobits]

IN THE LATEST EPISODE OF THINGS THAT NEVER HAPPENED…


munsternut
munsterfan
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 180
#377
Today, 13:29
I visit here often but tend not to post, but following last night I thought it would be best to share my experience.

I rarely miss a Munster game at home and travel to as many away games as possible.
Around 2016, after having a few bad experiences at Leinster games in Dublin I decided that I would travel for a Leinster v Munster match again.

last night with my son and daughter with me I unfortunately witnessed behaviours from 4 middle aged Leinster fans that have no place at a rugby match.
their discussions throughout the game about “stab city”, how Munster are broke because “most of their fans are unemployed” we’re bad enough, but their need to turnaround at the final whistle infront of 2 kids under 10 and say “**** you, you ****ing losers” and even refer to my kids as poor misfortunes who are forced to “watch this **** every week”.

Only for a friend of mine stepped in, I have no doubt that things would have escalated very quickly.

looking at their forum and some of the comments on here from their “fans” it seems like there is a growing number of Leinster fans who bring a very unwelcome element to the sport.

please note, at no stage did I have any interaction with these men.
Last edited by munsternut; Today, 13:34.

Sad tale and indefensible from any Leinster perspective.

Some day, in the future, tell your kids that every team has fanatics (often confused for fans) who are so twisted and biased that they cannot make any valid judgement on any player or match.

[artaneboy]

Having watched most of the game back on YouTube, I find the Birch Bashing on this thread confusing. What did he say that was so offensive? he seemed fairly neutral to me, praised both teams when they did something praiseworthy.
Seems to me that our collective skin has gotten a lot thinner over the last few years which is odd.
Get used to it. When Leinster play, only Leinster fans want Leinster to win, eveyone else is rooting for the other team.
And that's a Europe wide phenomenon.
Embrace it!

Exactly: we have to expect commentary teams, to highlight and even occasionally over emphasise the merits of underdog opposition when playing us. This applies even with ex-Leinster players on analysis, perhaps especially in that case.

Face it, and to state the obvious; Leinster continuing to win is “dog bites man” copy. It’s only “man bites dog” that gets journalists or the average watcher excited. So Nugent, Cahill, Birch is just doing what’s to expected: trying to create drama and competition for the viewer.

And while generally we are far better as a squad, team and individuals, last nights game was tight and no harm for the media to talk to that. So, while in the moment of a match some commentary can be irritating, that’s the price of success.


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