Racing in Le Harve

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster Rugby head coach Leo Cullen has issued an injury update ahead of Saturday’s Heineken Champions Cup season opener against Racing 92 at the Stade Océane in Le Havre, France (KO: 1pm Irish time – live on BT Sport and RTÉ Radio).

Both James Lowe and Charlie Ngatai are available for selection for this Saturday’s game. Lowe came through the game at the weekend against Ulster Rugby with no issues after his return from a calf injury, while Ngatai is expected to train fully with the team this week after his recovery from a shoulder injury sustained last month against Glasgow Warriors.

There were no further injuries from the bonus point win on Saturday against Ulster, but Johnny Sexton (calf) and Tadhg Furlong (ankle) will be further assessed this week, ahead of the trip to the Normandy coast.

Cullen had no further updates on Robbie Henshaw (wrist), Martin Moloney (knee), Ciarán Frawley (knee), Will Connors (bicep), James Tracy (neck), Charlie Ryan (knee) and Tommy O’Brien (knee).

[cormac]

Sounds like the classic "week too soon" for Johnny and Tadhg.

[curates_egg]

Well, that answers my question about Furlong: ankle. I hope we are having Novenas said to get him fit. I'd rather have him this weekend than next.

This will sound mad (and I know it won't happen) but, if Furlong is injured, I would consider starting Molony alongside Jenkins in the row. He's the best replacement for Furlong in that crucial forward distributor role that we rely on to fix defences. That said, having Ngatai back would also help mitigate Furlong's loss in that area.

Will be interesting to see who starts at hooker and scrum half. As with back in 2011-13, I think you could make a case for mixing it up and starting different players in the two coming games.

The composition of the back row, including sub, will also be interesting. Baird, Ruddock, Penny and Deegan have all been pushing hard. Squeaky bum time for Conan.

Looks like being cold but dry on Saturday in Le Havre.

[wixfjord]

If given a choice, I'd push Tadhg to give us 20 mins off the bench this weekend and leave him out for Glos the week after.

Big challenge for Big Mike in any case. Having Jenkins behind him will help hopefully.

No mention of Larmour? Assume he's available?

[cormac]

If given a choice, I'd push Tadhg to give us 20 mins off the bench this weekend and leave him out for Glos the week after.

Big challenge for Big Mike in any case. Having Jenkins behind him will help hopefully.

No mention of Larmour? Assume he's available?

He was definitely training.

[Ruckedtobits]

Racing beat Toulon last night in a game which was live on Viaplus (Premier Sports) and reffed by the Georgian.

Actually, there are two fibs in that last sentence. The game was hardly 'live' at any point and the Georgian just 'intervened' about every 30 secs, in English!

It was a total "bore fest" until the last ten minutes when both teams woke up and even the commentators had remarked how silent the usually noisy Toulon crowd were.

For the record Racing 92 won 14-31 with two tries, but very few of the players we will face next Saturday, possibly no more than seven from their match-day 23.

[backrower8]

Still a Racing win away from home against a fairly strong Toulon side with a good pack.

Furlong worries me. Apart from 62 minutes against Australia he has played limited minutes in just 5 matches so far this season, leaving the match prematurely with injurioed on 3 out of 5 occasions.

Furlong v v Connacht 41 mins [3 carries; 6 metres; 2 passes; 5 tackles] (left with an injury)
Porter = 35 mins [3 carries; 7 metres; 1 defender beaten; 3 passes; 3 tackles]

Porter v Munster 32 mins [2 carries; 14 metres; 2 defenders beaten; 3 tackles]

Furlong v S.Africa 40 mins [4 carries; 1 metre; 2 passes; 5 tackles] (left with an injury)
Porter = 68 mins [5 carries; 5 metres; 3 defenders beaten; 1 pass; 7 tackles; 1 turnover]

Furlong v Fiji 48 mins [4 carries, 4 metres; 6 passes; 6 tackles] (he was being kept fresh for the Australia match)

Furlong v Australia 62 mins [3 carries; 6 metres; 2 passes; 11 tackles]
Porter = 72 mins [6 carries; 13 metres; 1 defender beaten; 3 passes; 13 tackles; 1 turnover]

Furlong v Ulster 35 mins (left with an injury) [3 carries; 4 metres; 2 tackles]
Porter = 56 mins [9 carries; 15 metres; 1 defender beaten; 10 tackles; 2 turnovers]

When he does play Furlong is not putting himself about much and has less impact around the field compared to Porter - which is partially to do with Loose versus Tight head.

Overall - 5 matches each
Furlong: 226 mins [17 carries; 21 metres; 0 defenders beaten; 12 passes; 29 tackles; 0 turnovers]
Porter: 263 mins [25 carries; 54 metres; 8 defenders beaten; 7 passes; 36 tackles; 4 turnovers]

Pound for pound, metre for metre, minute by minute - Porter is delivering more

[Blue Man]

We’re missing three quality players (all double Lions Tourists and test starters). It’s for games like this that we need Ngatai and Big Mike to step up. Ross is a proven replacement for JS (insofar as anyone can be).
I would go with Kelleher at 2 as I think he’s a better scrummager than Sheehan, with the latter to get a good 35 mins.
We’ll need lots of physicality from JJ in the engine.
I’d go with Baird at 6, he was absolutely fantastic on Saturday. Team might look like:

Keenan
JOB
Ringer
Ngatai
Lowe
Ross
JGP
Doris
Best player in the world
Baird
JJ
Ryan
Big Mike
Kelleher
Porter

Sheehan
E Byrne
Vakh
Molony / McCarthy
Conan
Luke
Harry (not listed as injured)
Larmour

[wixfjord]

Sexton was running in training today according to Andrew Goodman.

[hugonaut]

Pound for pound, metre for metre, minute by minute - Porter is delivering more

No surprise to me. Tajee Furlong had to go on the Lions tour, Peter Porter didn't.

The Lions is a massive stressor. Players love it for loads of reasons – glory, next team up, ego, improved contract negotiating position, big payday [£50k/€60k just for making the squad], loads of gear – and it makes loads of money for everybody, but it has become a bit of an abortion.

It absolutely knackers players, particularly under Gatland. Too much contact training, too much stress, and a coach who doesn't give a sh!t about what is next for any of the players. They all come back f*cked. Whether that pans out 6 months on or 18 months on, it catches up.

Look at the test side for the second test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Brit ... uth_Africa

The vast majority of that side are either currently injured or playing well below their capabilities.

Mako Vunipola: well below his best form
Cowan-Dickie: not bad actually
Furlong: injured and not at his best
Maro Itoje: nowhere near his best - way off it
Alun-Wyn Jones: finished, playing on memory
Courtney Lawes: injured
Tom Curry: well below his best form
Jack Conan: well below his best form
Conor Murray: injured
Dan Biggar: injured
Duhan van der Merwe: not bad actually
Robbie Henshaw: injured
Chris Harris: not bad actually, but who cares
Anthony Watson: injured
Stuart Hogg: not bad actually

This is supposed to be the best side from the four countries 17 months ago, and would a single one of them make it in on current form? Is that coincidence?

Sexton might have the hump that Gatland didn't select him [ditto Ringrose – Chris Harris, for f*ck's sake – James Ryan, JVDF etc.] for the Lions, but if they went on that absolutely sh*t trip to a covid-stricken South African there is no way that we would have won the test series in NZ.

[desperado]

Pound for pound, metre for metre, minute by minute - Porter is delivering more

No surprise to me. Tajee Furlong had to go on the Lions tour, Peter Porter didn't.

The Lions is a massive stressor. Players love it for loads of reasons – glory, next team up, ego, improved contract negotiating position, big payday [£50k/€60k just for making the squad], loads of gear – and it makes loads of money for everybody, but it has become a bit of an abortion.

It absolutely knackers players, particularly under Gatland. Too much contact training, too much stress, and a coach who doesn't give a sh!t about what is next for any of the players. They all come back f*cked. Whether that pans out 6 months on or 18 months on, it catches up.

Look at the test side for the second test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Brit ... uth_Africa

The vast majority of that side are either currently injured or playing well below their capabilities.

Mako Vunipola: well below his best form
Cowan-Dickie: not bad actually
Furlong: injured and not at his best
Maro Itoje: nowhere near his best - way off it
Alun-Wyn Jones: finished, playing on memory
Courtney Lawes: injured
Tom Curry: well below his best form
Jack Conan: well below his best form
Conor Murray: injured
Dan Biggar: injured
Duhan van der Merwe: not bad actually
Robbie Henshaw: injured
Chris Harris: not bad actually, but who cares
Anthony Watson: injured
Stuart Hogg: not bad actually

This is supposed to be the best side from the four countries 17 months ago, and would a single one of them make it in on current form? Is that coincidence?

Sexton might have the hump that Gatland didn't select him [ditto Ringrose – Chris Harris, for f*ck's sake – James Ryan, JVDF etc.] for the Lions, but if they went on that absolutely sh*t trip to a covid-stricken South African there is no way that we would have won the test series in NZ.

Great insights Hugo; and I'd agree on everything .... bar I'd replace shite for sh!t in your descriptions as per Kevin Bridges https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EVI-38LjaY

[Dave Cahill]

Pound for pound, metre for metre, minute by minute - Porter is delivering more

No surprise to me. Tajee Furlong had to go on the Lions tour, Peter Porter didn't.

The Lions is a massive stressor. Players love it for loads of reasons – glory, next team up, ego, improved contract negotiating position, big payday [£50k/€60k just for making the squad], loads of gear – and it makes loads of money for everybody, but it has become a bit of an abortion.

It absolutely knackers players, particularly under Gatland. Too much contact training, too much stress, and a coach who doesn't give a sh!t about what is next for any of the players. They all come back f*cked. Whether that pans out 6 months on or 18 months on, it catches up.

Look at the test side for the second test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Brit ... uth_Africa

The vast majority of that side are either currently injured or playing well below their capabilities.

Mako Vunipola: well below his best form
Cowan-Dickie: not bad actually
Furlong: injured and not at his best
Maro Itoje: nowhere near his best - way off it
Alun-Wyn Jones: finished, playing on memory
Courtney Lawes: injured
Tom Curry: well below his best form
Jack Conan: well below his best form
Conor Murray: injured
Dan Biggar: injured
Duhan van der Merwe: not bad actually
Robbie Henshaw: injured
Chris Harris: not bad actually, but who cares
Anthony Watson: injured
Stuart Hogg: not bad actually

This is supposed to be the best side from the four countries 17 months ago, and would a single one of them make it in on current form? Is that coincidence?

Sexton might have the hump that Gatland didn't select him [ditto Ringrose – Chris Harris, for f*ck's sake – James Ryan, JVDF etc.] for the Lions, but if they went on that absolutely sh*t trip to a covid-stricken South African there is no way that we would have won the test series in NZ.

Total syllogism. You could equally argue, and it would be equally fallacious, that 12 months after that tour, Furlong, Conan, Murray, Henshaw, Beirne, Aki, and Murray were part of the Ireland squad and team that won the test series in NZ and that without the sh!t trip to a covid-stricken South Africa there is no way that we would have won that test series in NZ.

[Flash Gordon]

Pound for pound, metre for metre, minute by minute - Porter is delivering more

No surprise to me. Tajee Furlong had to go on the Lions tour, Peter Porter didn't.

The Lions is a massive stressor. Players love it for loads of reasons – glory, next team up, ego, improved contract negotiating position, big payday [£50k/€60k just for making the squad], loads of gear – and it makes loads of money for everybody, but it has become a bit of an abortion.

It absolutely knackers players, particularly under Gatland. Too much contact training, too much stress, and a coach who doesn't give a sh!t about what is next for any of the players. They all come back f*cked. Whether that pans out 6 months on or 18 months on, it catches up.

Look at the test side for the second test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Brit ... uth_Africa

The vast majority of that side are either currently injured or playing well below their capabilities.

Mako Vunipola: well below his best form
Cowan-Dickie: not bad actually
Furlong: injured and not at his best
Maro Itoje: nowhere near his best - way off it
Alun-Wyn Jones: finished, playing on memory
Courtney Lawes: injured
Tom Curry: well below his best form
Jack Conan: well below his best form
Conor Murray: injured
Dan Biggar: injured
Duhan van der Merwe: not bad actually
Robbie Henshaw: injured
Chris Harris: not bad actually, but who cares
Anthony Watson: injured
Stuart Hogg: not bad actually

This is supposed to be the best side from the four countries 17 months ago, and would a single one of them make it in on current form? Is that coincidence?

Sexton might have the hump that Gatland didn't select him [ditto Ringrose – Chris Harris, for f*ck's sake – James Ryan, JVDF etc.] for the Lions, but if they went on that absolutely sh*t trip to a covid-stricken South African there is no way that we would have won the test series in NZ.

Total syllogism. You could equally argue, and it would be equally fallacious, that 12 months after that tour, Furlong, Conan, Murray, Henshaw, Beirne, Aki, and Murray were part of the Ireland squad and team that won the test series in NZ and that without the sh!t trip to a covid-stricken South Africa there is no way that we would have won that test series in NZ.

Tend to agree. Robbie Henshaw isn't injured because of the Lions tour, Murray and AWJ are in the twilight of their careers and many of the England lads are just in a bad national environment with Jones coaching. It definitely happens that lads come back exhausted emotionally and physically but not sure of the causal relationship of lack of form and injury with the list above.

[Ruckedtobits]

After seven rounds of the Top 14 (1st week in Oct), Racing 92 were in 11th place on the log. Now, after 12 weeks of fixtures, they are second, with five successive wins and very much the form team.

Last weekend, away to Toulon, they took a very mixed Squad down to Toulon for a Sunday evening (9 pm) fixture and returned home with another four points in the bag.

Based on the pattern of selection for the Season thus far, we could face a Squad as follows(subject to current injuries & form):

15. Spring (or Gelant)
14. Wade
13. Chauvancy (or Klemenczak)
12. Saili (or Fickou)
11. Imoff
10. Russell
9. Le Garrac (or Iribarren)
1. Ben Arous
2. Chat
3. Kharashvilli
4. Woki
5. Palu
6. Lauren
7. Chouzenoux
8. Kamikamica

16. Tarrit
17. Gogichashvilli
18. Games Sa
19. Baudonne
20. As above SH
21. As above Centre
22. As above Full Back
23. Volavola

Racing have mixed and matched their Squad with real regularity this season and Coach Travers seems to have a very good handle on what combinations work. I've seen them live once (against Bayonne in Sept) when they had a team very similar to the above but stopped playing in the final quarter and were reeled in by a very fired-up local team opening their new Stand in front of a full house.

Russell & Le Garrac are the drivers of the team but both can be subjected to pressure and neither seems to have a setting marked "pragmatic". Entertaining certainly but frustrating occasionally for Racing Fans.

BTW, my French contacts suggest that the pitch in Le Havre could cut up in big chunks from heavyweight scrummaging, depending on weather.

[hugonaut]

Total syllogism. You could equally argue, and it would be equally fallacious, that 12 months after that tour, Furlong, Conan, Murray, Henshaw, Beirne, Aki, and Murray were part of the Ireland squad and team that won the test series in NZ and that without the sh!t trip to a covid-stricken South Africa there is no way that we would have won that test series in NZ.

I agree, it is a total syllogism [a good word which I had to look up]. I'm still right though!

[joooooe]

Pound for pound, metre for metre, minute by minute - Porter is delivering more

No surprise to me. Tajee Furlong had to go on the Lions tour, Peter Porter didn't.

The Lions is a massive stressor. Players love it for loads of reasons – glory, next team up, ego, improved contract negotiating position, big payday [£50k/€60k just for making the squad], loads of gear – and it makes loads of money for everybody, but it has become a bit of an abortion.

It absolutely knackers players, particularly under Gatland. Too much contact training, too much stress, and a coach who doesn't give a sh!t about what is next for any of the players. They all come back f*cked. Whether that pans out 6 months on or 18 months on, it catches up.

Look at the test side for the second test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Brit ... uth_Africa

The vast majority of that side are either currently injured or playing well below their capabilities.

Mako Vunipola: well below his best form
Cowan-Dickie: not bad actually
Furlong: injured and not at his best
Maro Itoje: nowhere near his best - way off it
Alun-Wyn Jones: finished, playing on memory
Courtney Lawes: injured
Tom Curry: well below his best form
Jack Conan: well below his best form
Conor Murray: injured
Dan Biggar: injured
Duhan van der Merwe: not bad actually
Robbie Henshaw: injured
Chris Harris: not bad actually, but who cares
Anthony Watson: injured
Stuart Hogg: not bad actually

This is supposed to be the best side from the four countries 17 months ago, and would a single one of them make it in on current form? Is that coincidence?

Sexton might have the hump that Gatland didn't select him [ditto Ringrose – Chris Harris, for f*ck's sake – James Ryan, JVDF etc.] for the Lions, but if they went on that absolutely sh*t trip to a covid-stricken South African there is no way that we would have won the test series in NZ.

Total syllogism. You could equally argue, and it would be equally fallacious, that 12 months after that tour, Furlong, Conan, Murray, Henshaw, Beirne, Aki, and Murray were part of the Ireland squad and team that won the test series in NZ and that without the sh!t trip to a covid-stricken South Africa there is no way that we would have won that test series in NZ.

Every Lions tour there is at least one Leinster player who comes back crocked and takes a season or more to get up to speed again (or never gets back up to speed – see Jack McGrath). I'll be up front: I dislike the Lions, I dislike the hype, I dislike what it stands for (historically, imperialism and, latterly, Sky cashmoneyhypetrainism) and I dislike how all rugby analysis loses its collective head for a couple of months cheering on a pre-1920s UK select XV.

I really hope some Irish players start to look at it and ask themselves "is it worth it?"

[riocard911]

I really hope some Leinster players start to look at it and ask themselves "Is it worth it?".

Anything - barr donning the national jersey - that lessens the chances of Leinster winning silverwear at the end of any given season is a no-no for me - and that includes Lions tours.

[mildlyinterested]

leinster strongest pack?

1. Porter
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Jenkins
6. Baird
7. JVDF
8. Doris

[Oldschool]

leinster strongest pack?

1. Porter
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Jenkins
6. Baird
7. JVDF
8. Doris

Agree - What is Leinster's strongest forwards bench. Based on form and availability - Kelleher, Byrne, M.Al, Baird, Deegan. ?
Tough on Moloney.
Is Healy automatically suspended and if not when will we know?

[Ruckedtobits]

leinster strongest pack?

1. Porter
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Jenkins
6. Baird
7. JVDF
8. Doris

Depends who we're playing. Against Racing's pack, I'd select Kelleher to start because of his scrum work, with a welcome for Sheehan at 45 mins. Certainly, on the basis of current form, Baird shades it over Conan, but another day in another place, I'd prefer Conan for his 'Big game' experience.