I wouldn't be surprised if the Ospreys beat Saracens; again dependent on 6n injuries and confidence. Stretching it even more (credulity that is ) Edinburgh have an outside chance v Leicester, although I think Edinburgh are a bit headless - Ritchie is a loose cannon/loose mouth; and I don't rate him as a captain.Degz wrote: ↑January 25th, 2023, 8:10 amAye.
Bookies have 'em 4th favourites. I think they'll muster up a performance down there on the back of being written off, but I'd still fancy us against them, home advantage especially.
Of course, it's all so dependent on post 6N injuries and confidence.
Heineken Cup 2022/23
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
If the Sharks play anywhere near their potential then Munster will get another hiding. But thats the thing, will they play up to the sum of their parts. They have a mighty squad but haven't really got going since they joined the URC.riocard911 wrote: ↑January 25th, 2023, 11:16 am No way would I bet on Munster beating the Sharks in Durban.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
Don’t see Ospreys beating Saracens, but I think Edinburgh have a good chance to beat Leicester. The Scots have more natural talent than the Tigers. On their day Edinburgh are very effective, and the aforementioned Richie, “headless” as a captain, or constantly offside/ illegal as a player is key to that effectiveness.desperado wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Ospreys beat Saracens; again dependent on 6n injuries and confidence. Stretching it even more (credulity that is ) Edinburgh have an outside chance v Leicester, although I think Edinburgh are a bit headless - Ritchie is a loose cannon/loose mouth; and I don't rate him as a captain.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
In fairness; I didn't say Ritchie was headless. Edinburgh were. You said it in one though ..'on their day' i.e. no consistency. No idea (regardless of what Mike Blair claimed) what they needed to do qualification wise. FFS it was the last game. On top of that they seem to continuously screw up winning positions (witness the away game to Saracens). Ritchie as captain has a part to play in that; he spends too much time mouthing off; sledging opposition players. He has nuisance value, but Edinburgh (and Scotland) could be alot more effective if he and some others (Russell, Hogg ) focussed more on the collective and acted as leaders, harnessed all that talent and made their teams greater than the sum of the parts.
Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
So then (the tin foil hat wearing side of me wants to know) did Edinburgh win or were Edinburgh allowed to win?Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑January 25th, 2023, 7:25 pmAlmost certainly Ospreys because we've seen what they have and although lacking Furlong & Jenkins, found a way to overcome them.
Montpellier didn't win the Top 14 by accident last season and the further they go in any competition the more dangerous they will be.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
This may all change anyway as Edinburgh have let Tom Cruse go to Northampton after less than 3 months, meaning that if the ERC catch them out like they did Bristol they could be deducted points and the ordering will change.Xanthippe wrote: ↑January 25th, 2023, 11:07 pmSo then (the tin foil hat wearing side of me wants to know) did Edinburgh win or were Edinburgh allowed to win?Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑January 25th, 2023, 7:25 pmAlmost certainly Ospreys because we've seen what they have and although lacking Furlong & Jenkins, found a way to overcome them.
Montpellier didn't win the Top 14 by accident last season and the further they go in any competition the more dangerous they will be.
It depends however on if Edinburgh had him in their originally signed squad or as an additional player.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
I haven't watched a lot of them but when I have the concerning thing with Saracens is how they seem to glideinto scoring positions and then convert. They're not in a hurry to run up a score on anyone. They'd have booted it out on 80 mins with the lead we had over Racing. There's more to come from them IMO.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
That Sarries pack isn't near the machine that it once was.
George & both Vunipola brothers are on the downward slope of their careers, they no longer have Koch and Lamisotele at TH either.
McFarland and Earl are cracking players albeit and Itoje is still a menace, but at scrumhalf they've also had a step down in quality from Wigglesworth/Spencer.
George & both Vunipola brothers are on the downward slope of their careers, they no longer have Koch and Lamisotele at TH either.
McFarland and Earl are cracking players albeit and Itoje is still a menace, but at scrumhalf they've also had a step down in quality from Wigglesworth/Spencer.
Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
All Kick off Times - Irish Time
Heineken Cup Round of 16
Fri Mar 31 8pm M5 Tigers (B4) v Edinburgh (A5) BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M3 Sharks (A3) v Munster (B6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M6 Stormers (B3) v Harlequins (A6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M1 Leinster (A1) v Ulster (B8) RTE / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M8 La Rochelle (B1) v Gloucester (A8) beIN SPORTS / France TV / BT Sport / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 12:30pm M2 Chiefs (A2) v Montpellier (B7) ITV / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M4 Saracens (A4) v Ospreys (B5) BT Sport / S4C / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M7 Toulouse (B2) v Bulls (A7) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / BT Sport
Challenge Cup Round of 16
Fri Mar 31 8pm M4 Bristol (A4) v Clermont (HCC9) Viaplay-Premier Sports / beIN SPORTS
Fri Mar 31 8pm M8 Scarlets (B1) v Brive (A6) S4C / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M1 Toulon (A1) v Cheetahs (B6) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 3pm M5 Stade Francais (B4) v Lyon (HCC9) beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M7 Benetton (B2) v Connacht (A5) epcrugby.tv
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M2 Glasgow (A2) v Dragons (B5) Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M6 Lions (B3) v Racing 92 (HCC10) SuperSport / beIN SPORTS / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 8pm M3 Cardiff (A3) v Sale (HCC10) S4C / BT Sport
Heineken Cup Round of 16
Fri Mar 31 8pm M5 Tigers (B4) v Edinburgh (A5) BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M3 Sharks (A3) v Munster (B6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M6 Stormers (B3) v Harlequins (A6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M1 Leinster (A1) v Ulster (B8) RTE / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M8 La Rochelle (B1) v Gloucester (A8) beIN SPORTS / France TV / BT Sport / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 12:30pm M2 Chiefs (A2) v Montpellier (B7) ITV / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M4 Saracens (A4) v Ospreys (B5) BT Sport / S4C / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M7 Toulouse (B2) v Bulls (A7) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / BT Sport
Challenge Cup Round of 16
Fri Mar 31 8pm M4 Bristol (A4) v Clermont (HCC9) Viaplay-Premier Sports / beIN SPORTS
Fri Mar 31 8pm M8 Scarlets (B1) v Brive (A6) S4C / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M1 Toulon (A1) v Cheetahs (B6) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 3pm M5 Stade Francais (B4) v Lyon (HCC9) beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M7 Benetton (B2) v Connacht (A5) epcrugby.tv
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M2 Glasgow (A2) v Dragons (B5) Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M6 Lions (B3) v Racing 92 (HCC10) SuperSport / beIN SPORTS / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 8pm M3 Cardiff (A3) v Sale (HCC10) S4C / BT Sport
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but could they not push our match or the LAR match out to the 7:30ish (vacant) timeslot and likewise with clashing games on Sunday, just so everyone can get to see all the games live should they so desire?neill_m wrote: ↑January 26th, 2023, 11:03 am All Kick off Times - Irish Time
Heineken Cup Round of 16
Fri Mar 31 8pm M5 Tigers (B4) v Edinburgh (A5) BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M3 Sharks (A3) v Munster (B6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M6 Stormers (B3) v Harlequins (A6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M1 Leinster (A1) v Ulster (B8) RTE / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M8 La Rochelle (B1) v Gloucester (A8) beIN SPORTS / France TV / BT Sport / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 12:30pm M2 Chiefs (A2) v Montpellier (B7) ITV / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M4 Saracens (A4) v Ospreys (B5) BT Sport / S4C / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M7 Toulouse (B2) v Bulls (A7) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / BT Sport
Challenge Cup Round of 16
Fri Mar 31 8pm M4 Bristol (A4) v Clermont (HCC9) Viaplay-Premier Sports / beIN SPORTS
Fri Mar 31 8pm M8 Scarlets (B1) v Brive (A6) S4C / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M1 Toulon (A1) v Cheetahs (B6) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 3pm M5 Stade Francais (B4) v Lyon (HCC9) beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M7 Benetton (B2) v Connacht (A5) epcrugby.tv
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M2 Glasgow (A2) v Dragons (B5) Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M6 Lions (B3) v Racing 92 (HCC10) SuperSport / beIN SPORTS / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 8pm M3 Cardiff (A3) v Sale (HCC10) S4C / BT Sport
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
There are also Challenge Cup games.LeinsterLeader wrote: ↑January 26th, 2023, 11:14 am I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but could they not push our match or the LAR match out to the 7:30ish (vacant) timeslot and likewise with clashing games on Sunday, just so everyone can get to see all the games live should they so desire?
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
Yeah okay! I don't like it......but, okayDave Cahill wrote: ↑January 26th, 2023, 11:21 amThere are also Challenge Cup games.LeinsterLeader wrote: ↑January 26th, 2023, 11:14 am I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but could they not push our match or the LAR match out to the 7:30ish (vacant) timeslot and likewise with clashing games on Sunday, just so everyone can get to see all the games live should they so desire?
Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
1930 would be 2030 local time right?; as it is the LAR game kicks off at 1830 local time. Not sure I'd like a 2030 kickoff if it was us.LeinsterLeader wrote:I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but could they not push our match or the LAR match out to the 7:30ish (vacant) timeslot and likewise with clashing games on Sunday, just so everyone can get to see all the games live should they so desire?neill_m wrote: ↑January 26th, 2023, 11:03 am All Kick off Times - Irish Time
Heineken Cup Round of 16
Fri Mar 31 8pm M5 Tigers (B4) v Edinburgh (A5) BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M3 Sharks (A3) v Munster (B6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M6 Stormers (B3) v Harlequins (A6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M1 Leinster (A1) v Ulster (B8) RTE / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M8 La Rochelle (B1) v Gloucester (A8) beIN SPORTS / France TV / BT Sport / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 12:30pm M2 Chiefs (A2) v Montpellier (B7) ITV / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M4 Saracens (A4) v Ospreys (B5) BT Sport / S4C / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M7 Toulouse (B2) v Bulls (A7) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / BT Sport
Challenge Cup Round of 16
Fri Mar 31 8pm M4 Bristol (A4) v Clermont (HCC9) Viaplay-Premier Sports / beIN SPORTS
Fri Mar 31 8pm M8 Scarlets (B1) v Brive (A6) S4C / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M1 Toulon (A1) v Cheetahs (B6) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 3pm M5 Stade Francais (B4) v Lyon (HCC9) beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M7 Benetton (B2) v Connacht (A5) epcrugby.tv
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M2 Glasgow (A2) v Dragons (B5) Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M6 Lions (B3) v Racing 92 (HCC10) SuperSport / beIN SPORTS / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 8pm M3 Cardiff (A3) v Sale (HCC10) S4C / BT Sport
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
I agree for the most part but I could see Vunipola rolling back the years for a year games in a season. They're playing a bit more rugby now though and I think the back line is still quality. Definitely don't have the depth they used to and will likely prioritse the GP if they get an injury squeeze.wixfjord wrote: ↑January 26th, 2023, 10:12 am That Sarries pack isn't near the machine that it once was.
George & both Vunipola brothers are on the downward slope of their careers, they no longer have Koch and Lamisotele at TH either.
McFarland and Earl are cracking players albeit and Itoje is still a menace, but at scrumhalf they've also had a step down in quality from Wigglesworth/Spencer.
McFarland is very good. A useful yardstick for Baird even if he is a little older he's only been pro about the same length of time.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
42 dot ie and Daily Telegraph reporting that the organisers will look to return the competition format to the old one and better one of pools of 4 etc next season.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
Just looked it up, thanks. Looks good:
Champions Cup set for radical overhaul
Key stakeholders cite an overcomplicated format and loss of revenues as the key issues with tournament's current setup
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... xt-season/
Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
What they haven't talked about at this stage (& it's the big indicator that they're unserious at this point) is the effect of SA and travel.
The English can absorb an extra week right now. It's a little harder with the 4th AI (which makes money) but still doable. Last year's HC was 9 weekends anyway and the French were able to do it then.
Number of groups becomes an issue. 24 teams is complicated as it's the original format they railed against. Cutting to 20 teams would realistically need 2 less English and 2 less French teams because of the 16 teams in the URC. That actually solves a problem for the teams that never cared about HC but they won't want to admit it or be seen to be less important than URC. Also the 2 teams who drop would want to be paid for missing out on a tournament they didn't really want to be in (it absolutely will happen).
3 SA teams (could be 4) playing 3 home matches is 9 teams travelling to SA. And no extra travel for Irish teams (Edit: I'm not right). It's 6 games this season but the extra knockout round closed the gap.
From a Leinster perspective we'd be giving up a game in Aviva (in a good year) for 1 RDS game and 1 trip. But if they fix this once glorious competition it's a fair price.
The English can absorb an extra week right now. It's a little harder with the 4th AI (which makes money) but still doable. Last year's HC was 9 weekends anyway and the French were able to do it then.
Number of groups becomes an issue. 24 teams is complicated as it's the original format they railed against. Cutting to 20 teams would realistically need 2 less English and 2 less French teams because of the 16 teams in the URC. That actually solves a problem for the teams that never cared about HC but they won't want to admit it or be seen to be less important than URC. Also the 2 teams who drop would want to be paid for missing out on a tournament they didn't really want to be in (it absolutely will happen).
3 SA teams (could be 4) playing 3 home matches is 9 teams travelling to SA. And no extra travel for Irish teams (Edit: I'm not right). It's 6 games this season but the extra knockout round closed the gap.
From a Leinster perspective we'd be giving up a game in Aviva (in a good year) for 1 RDS game and 1 trip. But if they fix this once glorious competition it's a fair price.
Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
Paywallriocard911 wrote:Just looked it up, thanks. Looks good:
Champions Cup set for radical overhaul
Key stakeholders cite an overcomplicated format and loss of revenues as the key issues with tournament's current setup
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... xt-season/
Anyone got the text?
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
https://archive.md/LgzcGThe Doc wrote: ↑January 27th, 2023, 9:21 amPaywallriocard911 wrote:Just looked it up, thanks. Looks good:
Champions Cup set for radical overhaul
Key stakeholders cite an overcomplicated format and loss of revenues as the key issues with tournament's current setup
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... xt-season/
Anyone got the text?
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23
Here you go:The Doc wrote: ↑January 27th, 2023, 9:21 amPaywallriocard911 wrote:Just looked it up, thanks. Looks good:
Champions Cup set for radical overhaul
Key stakeholders cite an overcomplicated format and loss of revenues as the key issues with tournament's current setup
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... xt-season/
Anyone got the text?
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The format of the Heineken Champions Cup is facing a radical overhaul after mounting pressure from key stakeholders.
It is understood that the issue came under discussion at a European Professional Club Rugby board meeting in Lausanne on Thursday, with calls for changes to be implemented as soon as next season.
The move comes following widespread criticism from players, coaches and supporters that the current format, involving two 12-team conferences and just four pool-stage games, is too complicated and has risked undermining the status of the competition.
Some stakeholders are also concerned that the move away from the previous qualifying format of five pools of four clubs, with six games played on a home and away basis, two seasons ago has had a detrimental impact on financial revenues
The format was first changed in the 2020/21 as a response to the impact of the Covid pandemic but retained for this year.
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Critics have highlighted the lack of clarity and jeopardy in the qualifying process. Currently all clubs play four pool-stage games against two of the other sides in their pool, with eight qualifying from each pool for a round of 16 ahead of the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final.
It is understood that among the options being considered is a return to format that featured in the competition up until 2014 – when EPCR took charge from the now-defunct European Rugby Cup – which would see a return to a qualifying stage of six pools of four clubs, which would add an extra weekend to the competition.
There are also calls for a return to the original schedule in the season, when the pool stages were held in two weekends in October, December and January. This season the pool matches started in December.
“Our view is to get back to a pool format – the old way of doing things,” Kevin Potts, the Irish Rugby Football Union chief executive told Telegraph Sport. “It worked really well and it gave the fans absolute certainty as to what they were actually following.