Heineken Cup 2022/23

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desperado
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by desperado »

Degz wrote: January 25th, 2023, 8:10 am
blockhead wrote: January 25th, 2023, 7:45 am
Degz wrote: January 25th, 2023, 7:10 am I think it'll be our old friends the Saffacens, should we make it too, in the final.

Think they've the pack to bully La Rogelle over there, and then would beat the actual Saffers, in Europe.
Edinburgh beat them only last weekend and shoulda won down there too.
Edinburgh are 8th in the URC.
Aye.

Bookies have 'em 4th favourites. I think they'll muster up a performance down there on the back of being written off, but I'd still fancy us against them, home advantage especially.

Of course, it's all so dependent on post 6N injuries and confidence.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Ospreys beat Saracens; again dependent on 6n injuries and confidence. Stretching it even more (credulity that is :-) ) Edinburgh have an outside chance v Leicester, although I think Edinburgh are a bit headless - Ritchie is a loose cannon/loose mouth; and I don't rate him as a captain.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by blockhead »

riocard911 wrote: January 25th, 2023, 11:16 am No way would I bet on Munster beating the Sharks in Durban.
If the Sharks play anywhere near their potential then Munster will get another hiding. But thats the thing, will they play up to the sum of their parts. They have a mighty squad but haven't really got going since they joined the URC.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by artaneboy »

desperado wrote:
Degz wrote: January 25th, 2023, 8:10 am
blockhead wrote: January 25th, 2023, 7:45 am Edinburgh beat them only last weekend and shoulda won down there too.
Edinburgh are 8th in the URC.
Aye.

Bookies have 'em 4th favourites. I think they'll muster up a performance down there on the back of being written off, but I'd still fancy us against them, home advantage especially.

Of course, it's all so dependent on post 6N injuries and confidence.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Ospreys beat Saracens; again dependent on 6n injuries and confidence. Stretching it even more (credulity that is :-) ) Edinburgh have an outside chance v Leicester, although I think Edinburgh are a bit headless - Ritchie is a loose cannon/loose mouth; and I don't rate him as a captain.
Don’t see Ospreys beating Saracens, but I think Edinburgh have a good chance to beat Leicester. The Scots have more natural talent than the Tigers. On their day Edinburgh are very effective, and the aforementioned Richie, “headless” as a captain, or constantly offside/ illegal as a player is key to that effectiveness.


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desperado
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by desperado »

In fairness; I didn't say Ritchie was headless. Edinburgh were. You said it in one though ..'on their day' i.e. no consistency. No idea (regardless of what Mike Blair claimed) what they needed to do qualification wise. FFS it was the last game. On top of that they seem to continuously screw up winning positions (witness the away game to Saracens). Ritchie as captain has a part to play in that; he spends too much time mouthing off; sledging opposition players. He has nuisance value, but Edinburgh (and Scotland) could be alot more effective if he and some others (Russell, Hogg ) focussed more on the collective and acted as leaders, harnessed all that talent and made their teams greater than the sum of the parts.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by Xanthippe »

Ruckedtobits wrote: January 25th, 2023, 7:25 pm
Xanthippe wrote: January 25th, 2023, 6:26 pm
blockhead wrote: January 25th, 2023, 7:45 am
Edinburgh beat them only last weekend and shoulda won down there too.
Edinburgh are 8th in the URC.
Just a thought - who would you prefer to play in the round of 16 - Ospreys or Montpellier?
Almost certainly Ospreys because we've seen what they have and although lacking Furlong & Jenkins, found a way to overcome them.

Montpellier didn't win the Top 14 by accident last season and the further they go in any competition the more dangerous they will be.
So then (the tin foil hat wearing side of me wants to know) did Edinburgh win or were Edinburgh allowed to win?
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by FLIP »

Xanthippe wrote: January 25th, 2023, 11:07 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote: January 25th, 2023, 7:25 pm
Xanthippe wrote: January 25th, 2023, 6:26 pm

Just a thought - who would you prefer to play in the round of 16 - Ospreys or Montpellier?
Almost certainly Ospreys because we've seen what they have and although lacking Furlong & Jenkins, found a way to overcome them.

Montpellier didn't win the Top 14 by accident last season and the further they go in any competition the more dangerous they will be.
So then (the tin foil hat wearing side of me wants to know) did Edinburgh win or were Edinburgh allowed to win?
This may all change anyway as Edinburgh have let Tom Cruse go to Northampton after less than 3 months, meaning that if the ERC catch them out like they did Bristol they could be deducted points and the ordering will change.

It depends however on if Edinburgh had him in their originally signed squad or as an additional player.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by paddyor »

blockhead wrote: January 25th, 2023, 7:45 am
Degz wrote: January 25th, 2023, 7:10 am I think it'll be our old friends the Saffacens, should we make it too, in the final.

Think they've the pack to bully La Rogelle over there, and then would beat the actual Saffers, in Europe.
Edinburgh beat them only last weekend and shoulda won down there too.
Edinburgh are 8th in the URC.
I haven't watched a lot of them but when I have the concerning thing with Saracens is how they seem to glideinto scoring positions and then convert. They're not in a hurry to run up a score on anyone. They'd have booted it out on 80 mins with the lead we had over Racing. There's more to come from them IMO.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by wixfjord »

That Sarries pack isn't near the machine that it once was.

George & both Vunipola brothers are on the downward slope of their careers, they no longer have Koch and Lamisotele at TH either.

McFarland and Earl are cracking players albeit and Itoje is still a menace, but at scrumhalf they've also had a step down in quality from Wigglesworth/Spencer.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by neill_m »

All Kick off Times - Irish Time

Heineken Cup Round of 16

Fri Mar 31 8pm M5 Tigers (B4) v Edinburgh (A5) BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M3 Sharks (A3) v Munster (B6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M6 Stormers (B3) v Harlequins (A6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M1 Leinster (A1) v Ulster (B8) RTE / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M8 La Rochelle (B1) v Gloucester (A8) beIN SPORTS / France TV / BT Sport / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 12:30pm M2 Chiefs (A2) v Montpellier (B7) ITV / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M4 Saracens (A4) v Ospreys (B5) BT Sport / S4C / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M7 Toulouse (B2) v Bulls (A7) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / BT Sport

Challenge Cup Round of 16

Fri Mar 31 8pm M4 Bristol (A4) v Clermont (HCC9) Viaplay-Premier Sports / beIN SPORTS
Fri Mar 31 8pm M8 Scarlets (B1) v Brive (A6) S4C / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M1 Toulon (A1) v Cheetahs (B6) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 3pm M5 Stade Francais (B4) v Lyon (HCC9) beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M7 Benetton (B2) v Connacht (A5) epcrugby.tv
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M2 Glasgow (A2) v Dragons (B5) Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M6 Lions (B3) v Racing 92 (HCC10) SuperSport / beIN SPORTS / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 8pm M3 Cardiff (A3) v Sale (HCC10) S4C / BT Sport
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by LeinsterLeader »

neill_m wrote: January 26th, 2023, 11:03 am All Kick off Times - Irish Time

Heineken Cup Round of 16

Fri Mar 31 8pm M5 Tigers (B4) v Edinburgh (A5) BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M3 Sharks (A3) v Munster (B6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M6 Stormers (B3) v Harlequins (A6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M1 Leinster (A1) v Ulster (B8) RTE / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M8 La Rochelle (B1) v Gloucester (A8) beIN SPORTS / France TV / BT Sport / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 12:30pm M2 Chiefs (A2) v Montpellier (B7) ITV / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M4 Saracens (A4) v Ospreys (B5) BT Sport / S4C / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M7 Toulouse (B2) v Bulls (A7) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / BT Sport

Challenge Cup Round of 16

Fri Mar 31 8pm M4 Bristol (A4) v Clermont (HCC9) Viaplay-Premier Sports / beIN SPORTS
Fri Mar 31 8pm M8 Scarlets (B1) v Brive (A6) S4C / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M1 Toulon (A1) v Cheetahs (B6) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 3pm M5 Stade Francais (B4) v Lyon (HCC9) beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M7 Benetton (B2) v Connacht (A5) epcrugby.tv
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M2 Glasgow (A2) v Dragons (B5) Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M6 Lions (B3) v Racing 92 (HCC10) SuperSport / beIN SPORTS / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 8pm M3 Cardiff (A3) v Sale (HCC10) S4C / BT Sport
I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but could they not push our match or the LAR match out to the 7:30ish (vacant) timeslot and likewise with clashing games on Sunday, just so everyone can get to see all the games live should they so desire?
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by Dave Cahill »

LeinsterLeader wrote: January 26th, 2023, 11:14 am I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but could they not push our match or the LAR match out to the 7:30ish (vacant) timeslot and likewise with clashing games on Sunday, just so everyone can get to see all the games live should they so desire?
There are also Challenge Cup games.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Dave Cahill wrote: January 26th, 2023, 11:21 am
LeinsterLeader wrote: January 26th, 2023, 11:14 am I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but could they not push our match or the LAR match out to the 7:30ish (vacant) timeslot and likewise with clashing games on Sunday, just so everyone can get to see all the games live should they so desire?
There are also Challenge Cup games.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by desperado »

LeinsterLeader wrote:
neill_m wrote: January 26th, 2023, 11:03 am All Kick off Times - Irish Time

Heineken Cup Round of 16

Fri Mar 31 8pm M5 Tigers (B4) v Edinburgh (A5) BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M3 Sharks (A3) v Munster (B6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M6 Stormers (B3) v Harlequins (A6) SuperSport / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M1 Leinster (A1) v Ulster (B8) RTE / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M8 La Rochelle (B1) v Gloucester (A8) beIN SPORTS / France TV / BT Sport / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 12:30pm M2 Chiefs (A2) v Montpellier (B7) ITV / BT Sport / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M4 Saracens (A4) v Ospreys (B5) BT Sport / S4C / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport
Sun Apr 2 3pm M7 Toulouse (B2) v Bulls (A7) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / BT Sport

Challenge Cup Round of 16

Fri Mar 31 8pm M4 Bristol (A4) v Clermont (HCC9) Viaplay-Premier Sports / beIN SPORTS
Fri Mar 31 8pm M8 Scarlets (B1) v Brive (A6) S4C / beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 12:30pm M1 Toulon (A1) v Cheetahs (B6) France TV / beIN SPORTS / SuperSport / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 3pm M5 Stade Francais (B4) v Lyon (HCC9) beIN SPORTS
Sat Apr 1 3pm M7 Benetton (B2) v Connacht (A5) epcrugby.tv
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M2 Glasgow (A2) v Dragons (B5) Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 5:30pm M6 Lions (B3) v Racing 92 (HCC10) SuperSport / beIN SPORTS / Viaplay-Premier Sports
Sat Apr 1 8pm M3 Cardiff (A3) v Sale (HCC10) S4C / BT Sport
I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but could they not push our match or the LAR match out to the 7:30ish (vacant) timeslot and likewise with clashing games on Sunday, just so everyone can get to see all the games live should they so desire?
1930 would be 2030 local time right?; as it is the LAR game kicks off at 1830 local time. Not sure I'd like a 2030 kickoff if it was us.

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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by paddyor »

wixfjord wrote: January 26th, 2023, 10:12 am That Sarries pack isn't near the machine that it once was.

George & both Vunipola brothers are on the downward slope of their careers, they no longer have Koch and Lamisotele at TH either.

McFarland and Earl are cracking players albeit and Itoje is still a menace, but at scrumhalf they've also had a step down in quality from Wigglesworth/Spencer.
I agree for the most part but I could see Vunipola rolling back the years for a year games in a season. They're playing a bit more rugby now though and I think the back line is still quality. Definitely don't have the depth they used to and will likely prioritse the GP if they get an injury squeeze.

McFarland is very good. A useful yardstick for Baird even if he is a little older he's only been pro about the same length of time.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by neill_m »

42 dot ie and Daily Telegraph reporting that the organisers will look to return the competition format to the old one and better one of pools of 4 etc next season.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by riocard911 »

neill_m wrote: January 26th, 2023, 11:26 pm 42 dot ie and Daily Telegraph reporting that the organisers will look to return the competition format to the old one and better one of pools of 4 etc next season.
Just looked it up, thanks. Looks good:


Champions Cup set for radical overhaul

Key stakeholders cite an overcomplicated format and loss of revenues as the key issues with tournament's current setup

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... xt-season/
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by ronk »

What they haven't talked about at this stage (& it's the big indicator that they're unserious at this point) is the effect of SA and travel.

The English can absorb an extra week right now. It's a little harder with the 4th AI (which makes money) but still doable. Last year's HC was 9 weekends anyway and the French were able to do it then.

Number of groups becomes an issue. 24 teams is complicated as it's the original format they railed against. Cutting to 20 teams would realistically need 2 less English and 2 less French teams because of the 16 teams in the URC. That actually solves a problem for the teams that never cared about HC but they won't want to admit it or be seen to be less important than URC. Also the 2 teams who drop would want to be paid for missing out on a tournament they didn't really want to be in (it absolutely will happen).

3 SA teams (could be 4) playing 3 home matches is 9 teams travelling to SA. And no extra travel for Irish teams (Edit: I'm not right). It's 6 games this season but the extra knockout round closed the gap.

From a Leinster perspective we'd be giving up a game in Aviva (in a good year) for 1 RDS game and 1 trip. But if they fix this once glorious competition it's a fair price.
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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by The Doc »

riocard911 wrote:
neill_m wrote: January 26th, 2023, 11:26 pm 42 dot ie and Daily Telegraph reporting that the organisers will look to return the competition format to the old one and better one of pools of 4 etc next season.
Just looked it up, thanks. Looks good:


Champions Cup set for radical overhaul

Key stakeholders cite an overcomplicated format and loss of revenues as the key issues with tournament's current setup

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... xt-season/
Paywall

Anyone got the text?

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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by fourthirtythree »

The Doc wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:21 am
riocard911 wrote:
neill_m wrote: January 26th, 2023, 11:26 pm 42 dot ie and Daily Telegraph reporting that the organisers will look to return the competition format to the old one and better one of pools of 4 etc next season.
Just looked it up, thanks. Looks good:


Champions Cup set for radical overhaul

Key stakeholders cite an overcomplicated format and loss of revenues as the key issues with tournament's current setup

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... xt-season/
Paywall

Anyone got the text?

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Re: Heineken Cup 2022/23

Post by riocard911 »

The Doc wrote: January 27th, 2023, 9:21 am
riocard911 wrote:
neill_m wrote: January 26th, 2023, 11:26 pm 42 dot ie and Daily Telegraph reporting that the organisers will look to return the competition format to the old one and better one of pools of 4 etc next season.
Just looked it up, thanks. Looks good:


Champions Cup set for radical overhaul

Key stakeholders cite an overcomplicated format and loss of revenues as the key issues with tournament's current setup

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... xt-season/
Paywall

Anyone got the text?

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Here you go:


The format of the Heineken Champions Cup is facing a radical overhaul after mounting pressure from key stakeholders.

It is understood that the issue came under discussion at a European Professional Club Rugby board meeting in Lausanne on Thursday, with calls for changes to be implemented as soon as next season.

The move comes following widespread criticism from players, coaches and supporters that the current format, involving two 12-team conferences and just four pool-stage games, is too complicated and has risked undermining the status of the competition.

Some stakeholders are also concerned that the move away from the previous qualifying format of five pools of four clubs, with six games played on a home and away basis, two seasons ago has had a detrimental impact on financial revenues

The format was first changed in the 2020/21 as a response to the impact of the Covid pandemic but retained for this year.
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Critics have highlighted the lack of clarity and jeopardy in the qualifying process. Currently all clubs play four pool-stage games against two of the other sides in their pool, with eight qualifying from each pool for a round of 16 ahead of the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final.

It is understood that among the options being considered is a return to format that featured in the competition up until 2014 – when EPCR took charge from the now-defunct European Rugby Cup – which would see a return to a qualifying stage of six pools of four clubs, which would add an extra weekend to the competition.

There are also calls for a return to the original schedule in the season, when the pool stages were held in two weekends in October, December and January. This season the pool matches started in December.

“Our view is to get back to a pool format – the old way of doing things,” Kevin Potts, the Irish Rugby Football Union chief executive told Telegraph Sport. “It worked really well and it gave the fans absolute certainty as to what they were actually following.
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