Heineken Cup 2022/23

[Ruckedtobits]

Racing 92 now up to third in Top 14 with a six-try demolition of Clermont. The pack is beginning to rumble again and the back-line, even without Russell starting, are beginning to hum.

Coaches & players all mentioned forthcoming encounter with Leinster during their post-Autumn matches interviews. This should be a serious contest.

[yellabelly1961]

Anyone heading to Gloucester in January? Wondering if it's better to stay in Cheltenham or Gloucester?

[Ray Donovan]

11 of us going and we’re all booked into Gloucester city centre.

[yellabelly1961]

11 of us going and we’re all booked into Gloucester city centre.

Any hotel recommendations?

[Ray Donovan]

Premier Inn quayside.

[yellabelly1961]

Premier Inn quayside.

Thanks, will check it out

[The Doc]

Premier Inn quayside.

Thanks, will check it out

I'd say that place will be all Leinster. I have a gang going there and I know of another

I have a spare room I'm about to let go. If you have any problems let me know.



Sent from my LE2123 using Tapatalk

[Blue Man]

Racing play tonight so 6 day turnaround. Presume they’ll travel on Friday which won’t help them either.
I wonder what sort of crowd they’ll get.
Not playing in Paris is a big advantage for Leinster - amateur stuff from the Operations people at Racing

[Dave Cahill]

Not playing in Paris is a big advantage for Leinster - amateur stuff from the Operations people at Racing

The Commune is paying Racing to play there, they are getting the ground for free, and they get to rent out their own ground for a concert.

It's the exact opposite of amateur.

[Blue Man]

Not playing in Paris is a big advantage for Leinster - amateur stuff from the Operations people at Racing

The Commune is paying Racing to play there, they are getting the ground for free, and they get to rent out their own ground for a concert.

It's the exact opposite of amateur.

Very short term thinking.
They lost a semi final last year in Lena due to a similar mess

[Dave Cahill]

Very short term thinking.

It's just not our way of thinking.

We, in Ireland, really care about the European competitions, after the 6 Nations, it's the most important thing in our rugby calendar. In France, it isn't. The Top14 is everything there. Moving a European game* isn't that big a deal as the game isn't that big a deal - at least not compared to a league game. Some clubs have a different attitude - Toulouse, Toulon (during the Boudjellal era) and ASM CA would regard the European competitions highly - but they are the exceptions, not the norm.



*it should also be remembered that Rugby in France is a game of the south. Apart from the two clubs from the Paris area, La Rochelle is the most northern club in the Top14. Bringing a top-level rugby match to the north of the country, where soccer is dominant, is considered a good thing in France and by French rugby.

[blockhead]

Very short term thinking.

It's just not our way of thinking.

We, in Ireland, really care about the European competitions, after the 6 Nations, it's the most important thing in our rugby calendar. In France, it isn't. The Top14 is everything there. Moving a European game* isn't that big a deal as the game isn't that big a deal - at least not compared to a league game. Some clubs have a different attitude - Toulouse, Toulon (during the Boudjellal era) and ASM CA would regard the European competitions highly - but they are the exceptions, not the norm.



*it should also be remembered that Rugby in France is a game of the south. Apart from the two clubs from the Paris area, La Rochelle is the most northern club in the Top14. Bringing a top-level rugby match to the north of the country, where soccer is dominant, is considered a good thing in France and by French rugby.

Tis true about the French re Europe. I'm begining to feel the the same thing about the URC. The EPRC have reduced the Heino to a sliver of its former self while the competition they are actually out to protect/enhance (The Premiership) is a laughing stock.
Somehow the Heino has to be made into a competition that nobody can ignore. €€€ would help.

[Blue Man]

Very short term thinking.

It's just not our way of thinking.

We, in Ireland, really care about the European competitions, after the 6 Nations, it's the most important thing in our rugby calendar. In France, it isn't. The Top14 is everything there. Moving a European game* isn't that big a deal as the game isn't that big a deal - at least not compared to a league game. Some clubs have a different attitude - Toulouse, Toulon (during the Boudjellal era) and ASM CA would regard the European competitions highly - but they are the exceptions, not the norm.



*it should also be remembered that Rugby in France is a game of the south. Apart from the two clubs from the Paris area, La Rochelle is the most northern club in the Top14. Bringing a top-level rugby match to the north of the country, where soccer is dominant, is considered a good thing in France and by French rugby.

I know all of this, thanks. Whilst the Bouclier is the big prize, French teams have been very competitive in Europe with 3/4 semi finalists in each of the past two years
None of it changes that fact that playing in Le Havre is disruptive to Racing and cedes home town advantage. It’s simply bad organisation. Munster tend to take the tournament seriously and had to move a quarter final to Dublin due to similar bad planning…
Indeed, Racing is one of the French clubs that does tend to take Europe seriously (look at their recent record).
This year will see English clubs have more of a focus on Europe than in previous years given they have fewer matches and need to maximize revenue by any means. The approach from more acepto al French clubs such as Castres will become apparent when the sides for next weekend are picked.

[riocard911]

Racing beat Toulon on the road today, Sunday, 14-31. They'll be going into this match with a bit of form like ourselves but with one day less recovery.

[ronk]

I know all of this, thanks. Whilst the Bouclier is the big prize, French teams have been very competitive in Europe with 3/4 semi finalists in each of the past two years
None of it changes that fact that playing in Le Havre is disruptive to Racing and cedes home town advantage. It’s simply bad organisation. Munster tend to take the tournament seriously and had to move a quarter final to Dublin due to similar bad planning…
Indeed, Racing is one of the French clubs that does tend to take Europe seriously (look at their recent record).
This year will see English clubs have more of a focus on Europe than in previous years given they have fewer matches and need to maximize revenue by any means. The approach from more acepto al French clubs such as Castres will become apparent when the sides for next weekend are picked.

Financially Munster got concert revenue and a bigger payday in the Aviva.

It was terrible planning but they still failed upwards.

[cormac]

Racing beat Toulon on the road today, Sunday, 14-31. They'll be going into this match with a bit of form like ourselves but with one day less recovery.

Think they sent the second string to Toulon.

[fourthirtythree]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... -economics

Worth remembering that the Guardian epitomised access journalism by relentlessly repeating the Premiership talking points about the ERC and how out of touch it was and how the clubs needed to take control to allow the competition to grow. It has struggled ever since with Heineken returning as the sole name sponsor with four slots to fill. Who would think that they could change the brand overnight?
While I don't think this journalist was one of the louder cheerleaders he's also wrong here. It isn't free market economics (not that such a thing actually exists or has existed anywhere) but hubris and the kind of stupidity that too much capital engenders that wounded the European Cup. Also an uncountered propaganda narrative from the English papers. That helped.

[joooooe]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... -economics

Worth remembering that the Guardian epitomised access journalism by relentlessly repeating the Premiership talking points about the ERC and how out of touch it was and how the clubs needed to take control to allow the competition to grow. It has struggled ever since with Heineken returning as the sole name sponsor with four slots to fill. Who would think that they could change the brand overnight?
While I don't think this journalist was one of the louder cheerleaders he's also wrong here. It isn't free market economics (not that such a thing actually exists or has existed anywhere) but hubris and the kind of stupidity that too much capital engenders that wounded the European Cup. Also an uncountered propaganda narrative from the English papers. That helped.

Timing is also interesting. Britain in 2014-2016 was selling itself the promise of sunlit uplands, where going-it-alone and taking back control were the solution to all problems. The narrative that the continued failure of Brexit is the fault of outsiders can apply equally to this analysis of the European Cup. It's nonsense, of course, and it would be in the interests of all parties to return to a pre-EPCR structure (both competition structure and control structure) but a combination of hubris and sunk costs will not permit this to happen.

What could happen is a decision to reform/revert the competition structure to its pre Covid format, hosting more matches on terrestrial TV, and moving the headquarters to a jurisdiction that plays rugby, but there seems to be an inertia when it comes to making any decisions like this and I'm not holding my breath while waiting for change. The inertia is probably understandable given that any more stupid decisions could kill off the competition completely so they are naturally reticent to make any "big" calls. Still, some of them should be obvious to those willing to concede some pride.

[ronk]

It's an interesting aspect of the Heineken Cup thus year.

The Irish are fed up, the French didn't want to travel after last year and are losing interest, the English have their backs to the wall. The Welsh, Scots and Italians are mostly gone from it. The South Africans have almost been forgotten about even though they're the most exciting thing to happen to the Heineken Cup in over 15 years.

[Keith]

We were promised a third tier competition to feed into the challenge cup to try and develop new markets, instead we got this https://www.theoffsideline.com/heidelbe ... lenge-cup/. The most embarrassing episode in HC history imo. At least in the old HC we got various sides from Romania, Portugal, and Spain. The whole thing has gone so far backwards it's really worrying.