Leinster v Ulster Sat 3rd December 19.35 TG4

[RoboProp]

Just an aside, brought my little man who has special needs along and he remarked it was the best day ever, I think we've a new fan for life here. Dan Sheehan and Jack Conan absolute warriors on the pitch, but pure gents off it, taking their time to sign my son's match programme and have photos taken with him. Top men

I love to hear stuff like this. Great to hear that he is so taken both with rugby and with Leinster. No doubt the attention paid to him by Jack and Dan will help to keep him interested. Thanks for sharing this, Roboprop

He's loving his rugby, he did the Leinster branch inclusivity summer camps in Mary's (that's where he got the grá) and is now absolutely loving his Sundays with the Terenure Tigers inclusivity team. They're are absolutely fantastic with him and all the other kids.

Dan even went so far as to say to him his cheering made a big difference to the team and that he could hear him on the pitch...now this wouldn't surprise me he was non-stop shouting Leinster and singing "COYBIB" I must ask him later if Dan is his new favourite player now, it's currently James Lowe whose hair he kinda copies

[D4surfer]

Mention of Cooney, was it just a coincidence that Ulster's decline coincided with his departure.

Many on the Ulster forum feel that way. It funny reading back, Doak was hailed as the second coming of Ruan Pienaar. Now, to quote them, he’s Tom Kite.

[hugonaut]

Many on the Ulster forum feel that way. It funny reading back, Doak was hailed as the second coming of Ruan Pienaar. Now, to quote them, he’s Tom Kite.

Doak didn't do much wrong when he came on. He was much better than he was against Munster, when he genuinely was Tom Kite.

Best wishes to Cooney on his recovery, it was worrying seeing him go into that fencing response. I am not a doctor, but that is known outside the medical community as perhaps the most obvious indicator of concussion.

[TMC]

Thought Ulster were architects of their own problems in the second half, they seem to make a conscious decision to stop attacking, reverting to kicking the ball away and trying to defend the territory and the lead with 30 minutes to go. Hard to know if that was a management call or an on field one, suspect Doak was operating on instructions. Could have been influenced by the fact Burns was on one leg and being targeted consistently, he should have been subbed - for me that was a real sign of their lack of confidence in Stockdale, they didn’t want to take the risk of moving Lowry in to 10 and bringing Stockdale on.

Interesting to read other perspectives, thought overall the referee had a good game, he made quick decisions; could understand the logic for the different interpretations on the Healy and Hume cards, Healy started low and was driving upwards and connected with his head, unfortunately that's a conscious decision and left the referee with no option. Hume was caught out completely by Ringers step and had no time to react so could understand the yellow. Yes he missed a few things from a Leinster perspective think Rea (?possibly) could have seen yellow/penalty try for pretty cynical hands in the ruck. The knock on in the lead up to the McIlroy try was pretty obvious, can’t remember who it was - possibly McCloskey - did seem to marginally impede the defence for the Treadwell try, but in fairness Ross Byrne was never stopping him from 3 yards out. See there are complaints on the Ulster board that Lowe hasn't been cited, felt he was within his rights to fend Cooney, but he could have been penalised. The referee is human, he made mistakes, he was humble enough to apologise to Lowe re the knock on he called incorrectly too which is good to see. I would take Ridley over most of the URC referees any day of the week and twice on a Sunday.

Lots of praise for individuals, Ringrose, Baird, JVDF, Porter, Sheehan & Kelleher all great. See he is getting the odd bit of criticism, personally though Jamie Osbourne was immense for a young guy in that kind of situation. Up against a serious operator in McCloskey I thought he had a fantastic game & delivered the goods defensively while remaining clear minded enough to take the opportunity when it was on. Keenan just oozes class in covering the backfield so well, guy just does it with so little fuss he doesn’t get the credit he deserves, pity he couldn’t finish that lovely break. Only blemish was the Furlong injury, hopefully not too serious. Player's form giving the coaching group genuine selection headaches in lots of areas.

Racing had a decent tune up over the weekend so no one going to be getting ahead of themselves. Russell likes his kick pass and Iribaren is a super little player.

[ronk]

Leinster went for distance at the end of the first half and backed their maul rather than taking the kick.

That was a huge decision for a big game and fairly critical in terms of allowing a comeback to do that and score. Doesn't fit the Ulster collapse narrative either.

[pangurban1]

Just an aside, brought my little man who has special needs along and he remarked it was the best day ever, I think we've a new fan for life here. Dan Sheehan and Jack Conan absolute warriors on the pitch, but pure gents off it, taking their time to sign my son's match programme and have photos taken with him. Top men

I love to hear stuff like this. Great to hear that he is so taken both with rugby and with Leinster. No doubt the attention paid to him by Jack and Dan will help to keep him interested. Thanks for sharing this, Roboprop

He's loving his rugby, he did the Leinster branch inclusivity summer camps in Mary's (that's where he got the grá) and is now absolutely loving his Sundays with the Terenure Tigers inclusivity team. They're are absolutely fantastic with him and all the other kids.

Dan even went so far as to say to him his cheering made a big difference to the team and that he could hear him on the pitch...now this wouldn't surprise me he was non-stop shouting Leinster and singing "COYBIB" I must ask him later if Dan is his new favourite player now, it's currently James Lowe whose hair he kinda copies

Great stuff , the only thing I can do for my autistic Nephew is bring him to Eddie rockets.
Is there still one in Donnybrook, maybe we would bump into some of the team.

[pangurban1]

Thought Ulster were architects of their own problems in the second half, they seem to make a conscious decision to stop attacking, reverting to kicking the ball away and trying to defend the territory and the lead with 30 minutes to go. Hard to know if that was a management call or an on field one, suspect Doak was operating on instructions. Could have been influenced by the fact Burns was on one leg and being targeted consistently, he should have been subbed - for me that was a real sign of their lack of confidence in Stockdale, they didn’t want to take the risk of moving Lowry in to 10 and bringing Stockdale on.

Interesting to read other perspectives, thought overall the referee had a good game, he made quick decisions; could understand the logic for the different interpretations on the Healy and Hume cards, Healy started low and was driving upwards and connected with his head, unfortunately that's a conscious decision and left the referee with no option. Hume was caught out completely by Ringers step and had no time to react so could understand the yellow. Yes he missed a few things from a Leinster perspective think Rea (?possibly) could have seen yellow/penalty try for pretty cynical hands in the ruck. The knock on in the lead up to the McIlroy try was pretty obvious, can’t remember who it was - possibly McCloskey - did seem to marginally impede the defence for the Treadwell try, but in fairness Ross Byrne was never stopping him from 3 yards out. See there are complaints on the Ulster board that Lowe hasn't been cited, felt he was within his rights to fend Cooney, but he could have been penalised. The referee is human, he made mistakes, he was humble enough to apologise to Lowe re the knock on he called incorrectly too which is good to see. I would take Ridley over most of the URC referees any day of the week and twice on a Sunday.

Lots of praise for individuals, Ringrose, Baird, JVDF, Porter, Sheehan & Kelleher all great. See he is getting the odd bit of criticism, personally though Jamie Osbourne was immense for a young guy in that kind of situation. Up against a serious operator in McCloskey I thought he had a fantastic game & delivered the goods defensively while remaining clear minded enough to take the opportunity when it was on. Keenan just oozes class in covering the backfield so well, guy just does it with so little fuss he doesn’t get the credit he deserves, pity he couldn’t finish that lovely break. Only blemish was the Furlong injury, hopefully not too serious. Player's form giving the coaching group genuine selection headaches in lots of areas.

Racing had a decent tune up over the weekend so no one going to be getting ahead of themselves. Russell likes his kick pass and Iribaren is a super little player.

The knock on That Lowe was talking about should have been a penalty to Leinster instead of them.
Lowe was jostled too when trying to make his point, Captains job to moan I know.

[ronk]

Lowe was well behind the player who touched the ball, he wasn't even offside.

The law specifically calls out that it has to be done to prevent the opposition gaining an advantage to be a penalty.

[RoboProp]

Lowe was well behind the player who touched the ball, he wasn't even offside.

The law specifically calls out that it has to be done to prevent the opposition gaining an advantage to be a penalty.

What flabbergasted me is that the ref copped he was wrong, and let play go on, now correct me if I am wrong but I seem to recall something like this happening with Nigel Owens back in the day where an incorrect officiating decision was highlighted and he overruled his own incorrect decision and then called play back to the original infringement? Not sure why this chap didn't do this? Other than was dross. Only consolation was he was shite for both teams, something I pointed out to a drunken Ulster fan, who still felt robbed/cheated by this ref.

[OTT]

Watched the game back and I really thought Ringrose lead well, a bit like Johnny actually (which imo is a good way to lead a team, others will think differently especially when it coincides with a loss strangely enough).

Lowry was lucky to not get a yellow in the second half for taking out the scrumhalf at the ruck when we had made a big line break up the pitch and had numbers out left. The exchange between Ringrose and the ref was amusing. There was no shouting or histrionics but I think it’s holding the ref accountable, it’s all nice the ref going if I got that wrong I’ll know after the match every few minutes. Ringrose wondered about the nature of the foul. The ref replies you (Leinster) were lucky, he came through the middle of the ruck and could have picked up the ball. Ringrose replied something like but he played the 9 when we had numbers, he was lucky. Ref comes back with no you were lucky. Ringrose goes back with nah he’s lucky.

That’s not word for word but I did enjoy the chat. Whatever Lowry coulda, shoulda done he didn’t do it and his action stopped what probably would have lead to a try at that time. It was like the ref used mitigation in a situation that there was nothing to mitigate on and Ringrose was having none of it.

[Flash Gordon]

Lowe was well behind the player who touched the ball, he wasn't even offside.

The law specifically calls out that it has to be done to prevent the opposition gaining an advantage to be a penalty.

What flabbergasted me is that the ref copped he was wrong, and let play go on, now correct me if I am wrong but I seem to recall something like this happening with Nigel Owens back in the day where an incorrect officiating decision was highlighted and he overruled his own incorrect decision and then called play back to the original infringement? Not sure why this chap didn't do this? Other than was dross. Only consolation was he was shite for both teams, something I pointed out to a drunken Ulster fan, who still felt robbed/cheated by this ref.

There's an element of their support base who constantly go South African on match officials.

Having watched it again (and why wouldn't you?!) the ref did ok. He missed the knock on that Lowe got irate about but these things happen. Thought Ulster were a little lucky on the head to head on Ringer. However, the real problem was that they were hammering us and they decided to boot the ball back to us constantly, their game management was shocking.

Some great performances from Baird, Josh (this is a recording), Ringrose and Porter were all different gravy but a special shout out to Osborne who was excellent. However, Ulster really have themselves to blame for the loss, we were brilliant in the second half but they just mismanaged the game tactically.

[elephantman]

Conan played 57 minutes and made 4 tackles, missing 1.

Doris played 23 minutes and made 7 tackles, missing 0.

Conan is a very good player but just doesn’t impose himself on matches.

Doris isn't Conan's problem at the moment, Deegan is. Doris is an absolute cert as a starter, it's the bench spot that is up for grabs.

Jack got the start last night and put in the effort, but he's not in good form at the moment. He has been frank about having niggling injuries throughout the first part of this season and to me he doesn't look fully fit. He looks like he is lumbering quite a bit when he runs. He doesn't look as explosive as he did a couple of seasons ago [here, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_1IEYjbxY4 ].

I don't think he's over the hill or anything like that ... this sort of thing happens all the time. It's a long season and sometimes guys who aren't setting it alight at the start of the season are the guys who come through at the end of it and do the business for you – for example, Jordi Murphy in 2018.

But equally, Max is playing really well at the moment and looks really sharp and explosive. His workrate is great, his tackling is great ... we all know his handling is top notch and he's an excellent runner and quite a good lineout option. Max is, and has always been, a big, big talent, and we shouldn't be worrying about change. We'd do better to believe the evidence of our eyes. He's playing better than Conan at the moment.

Couldn’t agree more. The team announcement on Friday is going to be very interesting.

[brotheroffrank]

Can't really argue with the red card. Gonna be a tough night!

Apparently the BKT URC Disciplinary Panel and various lawyers involved would dispute your opinion...[£1 for the 5 minute argument or £8 for a course of 10..?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ]

"Upon review of the incident, the Panel overseeing the disciplinary process (Robert Milligan KC (Chair, Scotland), Nigel Williams (Wales), Simon Thomas (Wales), deemed that there was sufficient mitigating factors to reduce the Red Card to a Yellow Card. Therefore the Red Card was not upheld and the Player can return to play effective immediately".

[FLIP]

Can't really argue with the red card. Gonna be a tough night!

Apparently the BKT URC Disciplinary Panel and various lawyers involved would dispute your opinion...[£1 for the 5 minute argument or £8 for a course of 10..?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ]

"Upon review of the incident, the Panel overseeing the disciplinary process (Robert Milligan KC (Chair, Scotland), Nigel Williams (Wales), Simon Thomas (Wales), deemed that there was sufficient mitigating factors to reduce the Red Card to a Yellow Card. Therefore the Red Card was not upheld and the Player can return to play effective immediately".

Link to news release: https://www.unitedrugby.com/latest/news ... cian-healy

[Oldschoolsocks]

Can't really argue with the red card. Gonna be a tough night!

Apparently the BKT URC Disciplinary Panel and various lawyers involved would dispute your opinion...[£1 for the 5 minute argument or £8 for a course of 10..?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ]

"Upon review of the incident, the Panel overseeing the disciplinary process (Robert Milligan KC (Chair, Scotland), Nigel Williams (Wales), Simon Thomas (Wales), deemed that there was sufficient mitigating factors to reduce the Red Card to a Yellow Card. Therefore the Red Card was not upheld and the Player can return to play effective immediately".

Link to news release: https://www.unitedrugby.com/latest/news ... cian-healy

So in good news we have Church available for selection, in nit so good news the sport is nit really taking bliows to the head seriously

[JohnB]

Something that seems to be confirmed by the fact that James Lowe didn't get a card of any sort for laying out Cooney with an elbow to the head. Not a great advertisement of the game for those parents who might be concerned for their child's well being and the risks they might run if they play rugby.

[RoboProp]

Something that seems to be confirmed by the fact that James Lowe didn't get a card of any sort for laying out Cooney with an elbow to the head. Not a great advertisement of the game for those parents who might be concerned for their child's well being and the risks they might run if they play rugby.

It was never his elbow, look at it again. It's the supinator muscle of the forearm, never the bone. If it was the elbow bone Cooney would have been split like a pig. Either way, glad to see Cooney up and around afterwards taking time with fans

[hugonaut]

So in good news we have Church available for selection, in nit so good news the sport is nit really taking bliows to the head seriously

He got sent off on the night.

When I was playing, a clash of heads like that had no sanction – not even a penalty. Getting sent off is a really significant tariff to pay. I think that shows the bodies who oversee the sport are taking blows to the head seriously, by instructing referees to punish players [and their teams] severely in order to disincentivise any slackness in carrying out actions that could lead to head collisions.

From my point of view, that was very clearly an accident. Head-on-head collisions almost always are, and unfortunately, they are always going to happen in rugby, as long as the game is played. If you look at the incident, Healy has his knees pretty much completely flexed, i.e. a 90º angle, his hips are low, he's coming up a bit as Stewart is coming down a bit ... it's just an accident. It's not an egregious failure of technique or a cheapshot, he's not a recidivist high tackler. Hume got a yellow card for his head collision with Ringrose because it was [again] accidental.

Healy already paid a high price by getting sent off early in the game. I was expecting him to get a two week ban with one week off, but I'm happy that he didn't. I seem to be in the online minority here, but I don't think that he should have had to serve any ban or suspension at all. He already had sufficient sanction.

[the spoofer]

So in good news we have Church available for selection, in nit so good news the sport is nit really taking bliows to the head seriously

He got sent off on the night.

When I was playing, a clash of heads like that had no sanction – not even a penalty. Getting sent off is a really significant tariff to pay. I think that shows the bodies who oversee the sport are taking blows to the head seriously, by instructing referees to punish players [and their teams] severely in order to disincentivise any slackness in carrying out actions that could lead to head collisions.

From my point of view, that was very clearly an accident. Head-on-head collisions almost always are, and unfortunately, they are always going to happen in rugby, as long as the game is played. If you look at the incident, Healy has his knees pretty much completely flexed, i.e. a 90º angle, his hips are low, he's coming up a bit as Stewart is coming down a bit ... it's just an accident. It's not an egregious failure of technique or a cheapshot, he's not a recidivist high tackler. Hume got a yellow card for his head collision with Ringrose because it was [again] accidental.

Healy already paid a high price by getting sent off early in the game. I was expecting him to get a two week ban with one week off, but I'm happy that he didn't. I seem to be in the online minority here, but I don't think that he should have had to serve any ban or suspension at all. He already had sufficient sanction.

I’ll reduce the minority. I understand why the ref gave red but there was clear mitigation in Stewart’s carry height and Healys dip.

[naraic]

Sought clarification on the 'mitigating factors' and I'm told:
• Healy's tackle was passive
• His feet were planted and there was no forward momentum
• Healy appeared to have a high degree of control
• Ulster players change of direction and dip caused Healy to adjust late

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1 ... 2228120609

Here was the details on the mitigation.