Leinster v Ulster Sat 3rd December 19.35 TG4

[Barry]

Lots of positives from last night - for me the big two were J-Lo's return and Baird putting in possibly his best ever performance in blue.

On the downside, Church will be suspended for the next few weeks and seeing Tadgh limping off near the end.
Need a strong scrum in France next weekend.

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[riocard911]

Great performance by the whole 23 to get themselves out of the hole they found themselves coming up to the end of the first half. I also thought Osborne had a very mature performance. His kicking, tackling, passing and running were all great, but his vision and courage - to go for the quick line out after Lowe had bundled one of the Nordies into touch - were top notch too.

Thinking about it, I had the idea, that Luke and Harry didn't make the teamsheet vs Ulster, in order to have them ready to go vs Racing, in case Ross or JPG had picked up an injury last night.

[curates_egg]

On the downside, Church will be suspended for the next few weeks and seeing Tadgh limping off near the end.
Need a strong scrum in France next weekend.

I asked earlier in the thread, but does anyone know what happened to Furlong? Looked like calf or ankle, either of which wouldn’t be great.
Clarkson having to come on and scrummage against Racing would be a worry.

Very unfortunate for Healy. I mentioned before the game that I believe he was starting to see if he could/would be our 17 over the next two weeks.
Well, he won’t. But I don’t think Byrne is really a step down from Healy at this stage of his career.

[Ruckedtobits]

Josh’s counter rucking on lost causes was inspiring. Never ever give up, never ever accept defeat. Then they all started doing it, as a fan what more can you ask for, lads in the trenches that care as much about this team as we do. Porter’s and Ringrose’s post game interviews and James Lowe’s with Leinster TV full of humility and appreciation for what the fans brought to the game and how they were inspired by the backing they had when they were down on their knees in the first half. Some game, lovely to be supporting a team and group of players who you can be proud of on and off the pitch.

This +1

[hugonaut]

9 ahead in the league and now 13 ahead of Ulster iirc.

Massive win for that reason too.

100% Wixfjord. It makes the end of the season a good bit more manageable for us, which I think is the biggest tangible benefit.

But it is also good to put Ulster back in their box and put a stutter in their step. They beat us twice last season, fair enough ... but we were nowhere near full strength in either match. The Ulster side of the argument to that is perfectly legitimate: they beat the team in front of them. That's an undeniable fact.

But there has been extrapolation from that that [from my, Leinster-based, side of the story] has gone a good bit too far: the 'he doesn't play in Dublin, that's why he's not getting selected for Ireland'/'we beat them both times last season, how come they have ten in the team and we have one?' moaning, which I have seen a fair bit of online.

We went up there with a strong team earlier this season and knocked them over in Ravenhill, and to be frank that didn't get a lot of airtime either at the time or in the build-up to this game. That was a good win for us, because Ulster are a very useful outfit. But playing this one with 14 men for the large majority of the game and pummelling them in the second half was an even better one, because it will put a bit of a bogeyman vibe around us again.

[Blue Man]

Terrible first half, lots of physicality but backs were poor in attack and overall there were too many errors / turnovers. Some of it was no doubt down to ring rust and the likes of Lowe and JGP improved in the second half.
I don’t think Osborne is a 12 and it’s not fair to play him there.
Interested to hear thoughts on the Lowe forearm to Cooney’s head that resulted in the latter going off.
Amazing belief and resilience to come back, particularly with 14 men.
Baird, Porter, Ringer and Keenan were all really excellent.
Big game next week, I suspect JS won’t make it but we really need Ngatai at 12

[elephantman]

Conan played 57 minutes and made 4 tackles, missing 1.

Doris played 23 minutes and made 7 tackles, missing 0.

Conan is a very good player but just doesn’t impose himself on matches.

[hugonaut]

Conan played 57 minutes and made 4 tackles, missing 1.

Doris played 23 minutes and made 7 tackles, missing 0.

Conan is a very good player but just doesn’t impose himself on matches.

Doris isn't Conan's problem at the moment, Deegan is. Doris is an absolute cert as a starter, it's the bench spot that is up for grabs.

Jack got the start last night and put in the effort, but he's not in good form at the moment. He has been frank about having niggling injuries throughout the first part of this season and to me he doesn't look fully fit. He looks like he is lumbering quite a bit when he runs. He doesn't look as explosive as he did a couple of seasons ago [here, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_1IEYjbxY4 ].

I don't think he's over the hill or anything like that ... this sort of thing happens all the time. It's a long season and sometimes guys who aren't setting it alight at the start of the season are the guys who come through at the end of it and do the business for you – for example, Jordi Murphy in 2018.

But equally, Max is playing really well at the moment and looks really sharp and explosive. His workrate is great, his tackling is great ... we all know his handling is top notch and he's an excellent runner and quite a good lineout option. Max is, and has always been, a big, big talent, and we shouldn't be worrying about change. We'd do better to believe the evidence of our eyes. He's playing better than Conan at the moment.

[enby]

Just an aside, brought my little man who has special needs along and he remarked it was the best day ever, I think we've a new fan for life here. Dan Sheehan and Jack Conan absolute warriors on the pitch, but pure gents off it, taking their time to sign my son's match programme and have photos taken with him. Top men

I love to hear stuff like this. Great to hear that he is so taken both with rugby and with Leinster. No doubt the attention paid to him by Jack and Dan will help to keep him interested. Thanks for sharing this, Roboprop

[curates_egg]

Interested to hear thoughts on the Lowe forearm to Cooney’s head that resulted in the latter going off.

I thought Lowe was very lucky. My understanding is that leading with the forearm is foul play. If it hits the head, it is dangerous. There may have been mitigation with the tackle height, so a yellow.

I thought the officials were really poor. Mistakes on both sides.

If Healy’s red was justified (I believe it was), then I really don’t understand how Hume got only a yellow.

Ref called non-penalties against us: an offside knock on, where it came off an Ulster hand; the TMO ridiculously calling Byrne diving on the ball a no-arms tackle. At least two non knock ons.

You could see how frustrated Ringrose was. I’ve never seen him like that before.

[Dexter]

Interested to hear thoughts on the Lowe forearm to Cooney’s head that resulted in the latter going off.

I thought Lowe was very lucky. My understanding is that leading with the forearm is foul play. If it hits the head, it is dangerous. There may have been mitigation with the tackle height, so a yellow.

I thought the officials were really poor. Mistakes on both sides.

If Healy’s red was justified (I believe it was), then I really don’t understand how Hume got only a yellow.

Ref called non-penalties against us: an offside knock on, where it came off an Ulster hand; the TMO ridiculously calling Byrne diving on the ball a no-arms tackle. At least two non knock ons.

You could see how frustrated Ringrose was. I’ve never seen him like that before.

It's par for the course, mistakes like that are being made every week. At least the ref acknowledged the knock on pen mistake.
I think Healy was unlucky, Hume was lucky and Lowe maybe slightly lucky. In the end there were no result changing mistakes though, which is not always the case.

[curates_egg]

Interested to hear thoughts on the Lowe forearm to Cooney’s head that resulted in the latter going off.

I thought Lowe was very lucky. My understanding is that leading with the forearm is foul play. If it hits the head, it is dangerous. There may have been mitigation with the tackle height, so a yellow.

I thought the officials were really poor. Mistakes on both sides.

If Healy’s red was justified (I believe it was), then I really don’t understand how Hume got only a yellow.

Ref called non-penalties against us: an offside knock on, where it came off an Ulster hand; the TMO ridiculously calling Byrne diving on the ball a no-arms tackle. At least two non knock ons.

You could see how frustrated Ringrose was. I’ve never seen him like that before.

It's par for the course, mistakes like that are being made every week. At least the ref acknowledged the knock on pen mistake.
I think Healy was unlucky, Hume was lucky and Lowe maybe slightly lucky. In the end there were no result changing mistakes though, which is not always the case.

One of their tries came from a possession turnover after they knocked it on in a tackle in their 22 and it was called against us. Could easily have been checked.

Definitely not game changing but it is frustrating. I thought the TMO was particularly poor.

[Dexter]

I thought Lowe was very lucky. My understanding is that leading with the forearm is foul play. If it hits the head, it is dangerous. There may have been mitigation with the tackle height, so a yellow.

I thought the officials were really poor. Mistakes on both sides.

If Healy’s red was justified (I believe it was), then I really don’t understand how Hume got only a yellow.

Ref called non-penalties against us: an offside knock on, where it came off an Ulster hand; the TMO ridiculously calling Byrne diving on the ball a no-arms tackle. At least two non knock ons.

You could see how frustrated Ringrose was. I’ve never seen him like that before.

It's par for the course, mistakes like that are being made every week. At least the ref acknowledged the knock on pen mistake.
I think Healy was unlucky, Hume was lucky and Lowe maybe slightly lucky. In the end there were no result changing mistakes though, which is not always the case.

One of their tries came from a possession turnover after they knocked it on in a tackle in their 22 and it was called against us. Could easily have been checked.

Definitely not game changing but it is frustrating. I thought the TMO was particularly poor.

Yeah true, TMO didn't help, to say the least. It's funny when you watch the match after being at it, different perspectives.

[Blue Man]

Interested to hear thoughts on the Lowe forearm to Cooney’s head that resulted in the latter going off.

I thought Lowe was very lucky. My understanding is that leading with the forearm is foul play. If it hits the head, it is dangerous. There may have been mitigation with the tackle height, so a yellow.

That was also my understanding also and I thought it was at least a yellow. The ref explained that the Hume tackle was reduced to yellow due to the mitigating factor of the late change in direction which was fair.

[curates_egg]

Interested to hear thoughts on the Lowe forearm to Cooney’s head that resulted in the latter going off.

I thought Lowe was very lucky. My understanding is that leading with the forearm is foul play. If it hits the head, it is dangerous. There may have been mitigation with the tackle height, so a yellow.

That was also my understanding also and I thought it was at least a yellow. The ref explained that the Hume tackle was reduced to yellow due to the mitigating factor of the late change in direction which was fair.

Sure but there was also a change in direction for the Church red, and he absorbed the impact unlike Hume, who caused the impact.

I think the decisions probably evened themselves out in any case. Of course, the usual Munster wums on social meeja think it is evidence we are in league with the devil.

[riocard911]

I thought Lowe was very lucky. My understanding is that leading with the forearm is foul play. If it hits the head, it is dangerous. There may have been mitigation with the tackle height, so a yellow.

That was also my understanding also and I thought it was at least a yellow. The ref explained that the Hume tackle was reduced to yellow due to the mitigating factor of the late change in direction which was fair.

Sure but there was also a change in direction for the Church red, and he absorbed the impact unlike Hume, who caused the impact.

I think the decisions probably evened themselves out in any case. Of course, the usual Munster wums on social meeja think it is evidence we are in league with the devil.

We're not? Since when?

[Logorrhea]

Interested to hear thoughts on the Lowe forearm to Cooney’s head that resulted in the latter going off.

I thought Lowe was very lucky. My understanding is that leading with the forearm is foul play. If it hits the head, it is dangerous. There may have been mitigation with the tackle height, so a yellow.

That was also my understanding also and I thought it was at least a yellow. The ref explained that the Hume tackle was reduced to yellow due to the mitigating factor of the late change in direction which was fair.

If the arm is held to the chest (not out in front) then its not foul play, its just part of the contact. The ref said he thought Lowes arm was held in at the contact. No idea if he is right or not, but that was the call he made.

[D4surfer]

I thought Lowe was very lucky. My understanding is that leading with the forearm is foul play. If it hits the head, it is dangerous. There may have been mitigation with the tackle height, so a yellow.

That was also my understanding also and I thought it was at least a yellow. The ref explained that the Hume tackle was reduced to yellow due to the mitigating factor of the late change in direction which was fair.

If the arm is held to the chest (not out in front) then its not foul play, its just part of the contact. The ref said he thought Lowes arm was held in at the contact. No idea if he is right or not, but that was the call he made.

On watching back I think the ref was right. Lowe’s arm was held to his chest at the point of contact. He then lifted the arm and pushed Cooney out of the way. Blue tinted maybe, but that’s what I saw.

[Ruckedtobits]

On watching back I think the ref was right. Lowe’s arm was held to his chest at the point of contact. He then lifted the arm and pushed Cooney out of the way. Blue tinted maybe, but that’s what I saw.

That's the interpretation of the Law currently. If forearm is not used to 'strike' opponent but is used, after contact, to 'push' player away, it's permitted and is not penalised. If forearm is used to 'strike' opponent, it doesn't have to be the head of opponent to be illegal.

[Oldschool]

Mention of Cooney, was it just a coincidence that Ulster's decline coincided with his departure.