Leinster v Glasgow Sat 26th Nov 3:15pm RTE/Premier Sports

[riocard911]

Vakh getting capped could mean that he's retiring soon with injury. Or that he's staying with Leinster, or that he's leaving Leinster. Or that he doesn't know whether he's leaving and decided to go for it anyway. Or that he didn't even think about it the first time he got a callup.

[hugonaut]

Good to have some guys coming back in.

Sounds like Lowe & JL will be back for Europe too.

Team I'd go for:

Byrne, McKee, Mike, Molony, McCarthy, Rhys, Penny, Deegan, McGrath, Ross, DK, Ngatai, Osborne, Turner, Cosgrove,

Kelleher, Milne, Vakh, Jenkins, Baird, Foley, Harry, Russell

Getting a few other Irish guys into the mix would be great too.

I have the same view as you, at the moment it is Vakh > Clarkson.

You've been nothing if not loyal in your devotion to the Vakh cause.
I would take Vakh getting capped for Georgia as a very strong indication that he believes/has been led to believe that he has no long-term future at Leinster.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought it was very instructive that Clarkson got picked to start against Scarlets (having benched against Munster the previous week), with Vakh on the bench. There have been various opportunities to start Vakh earlier in the season (none more so than Treviso at home), but he missed out on the one opportunity that finally emerged. The fact they have persisted with the questionable Healy at 18 experiment is not a vote of confidence either.

I think Vakh is signed up until the end of next season [June 2024]. I might be wrong there, Leinster aren't really interested in releasing information about contract lengths.

I suppose I am championing Vakh a bit over Clarkson! I don't feel very strongly about it, and I certainly don't have any animus against Clarkson. I think that Vakh has more natural size and is more explosive at the moment. He's older, he's been in the system longer, it's time to get more use out of him.

Vakh is 26, he was always big and he has had an additional three years compared to Clarkson to get used to playing at a heavier weight ... I think he was 115kg as an U20 and he is 121kg [+6kg] now, six years later. In comparison Clarkson was somewhere between 108-110kg as an U20 and is 118kg [+8-10kg] now, two years later. Clarkson was always going to have to add a bit of bulk, and it is probably just a case of getting used to it. I think he's a bit blown up at the moment.

Clarkson also leads with his chin quite a lot, which is a little frustrating to watch. He can be very upright in contact, both tackling and carrying.

My take on it is that we're paying both of them, so let's use both of them. But I would tend to favour Vakh a little at the moment, yeah.

[curates_egg]

I have the same view as you, at the moment it is Vakh > Clarkson.

You've been nothing if not loyal in your devotion to the Vakh cause.
I would take Vakh getting capped for Georgia as a very strong indication that he believes/has been led to believe that he has no long-term future at Leinster.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought it was very instructive that Clarkson got picked to start against Scarlets (having benched against Munster the previous week), with Vakh on the bench. There have been various opportunities to start Vakh earlier in the season (none more so than Treviso at home), but he missed out on the one opportunity that finally emerged. The fact they have persisted with the questionable Healy at 18 experiment is not a vote of confidence either.

I think Vakh is signed up until the end of next season [June 2024]. I might be wrong there, Leinster aren't really interested in releasing information about contract lengths.

I suppose I am championing Vakh a bit over Clarkson! I don't feel very strongly about it, and I certainly don't have any animus against Clarkson. I think that Vakh has more natural size and is more explosive at the moment. He's older, he's been in the system longer, it's time to get more use out of him.

Vakh is 26, he was always big and he has had an additional three years compared to Clarkson to get used to playing at a heavier weight ... I think he was 115kg as an U20 and he is 121kg [+6kg] now, six years later. In comparison Clarkson was somewhere between 108-110kg as an U20 and is 118kg [+8-10kg] now, two years later. Clarkson was always going to have to add a bit of bulk, and it is probably just a case of getting used to it. I think he's a bit blown up at the moment.

Clarkson also leads with his chin quite a lot, which is a little frustrating to watch. He can be very upright in contact, both tackling and carrying.

My take on it is that we're paying both of them, so let's use both of them. But I would tend to favour Vakh a little at the moment, yeah.

I don't know enough to make a judgement one way or the other.
Vakh looked(s) like a unit though and, a point you have made a few times, he has the genetic pedigree. As such, I kind of expected him to be more established by now.
Injuries at bad moments haven't helped but, this season, it is hard to escape the impression that the different powers that be are losing faith in him:

- Hasn't gotten any start so far, despite there being a few clear opportunities (and even a need, with Big Mike being flogged).
- Healy (35 and in decline) selected out of position on the bench ahead of him in some important games.
- Missed out on the Emerging Ireland tour, with Clarkson and Salanoa picked over him.
- Subsequently decided to tie himself to Georgia.

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I don't like what I'm seeing in those tea leaves.

[wixfjord]

Based on what has been said elsewhere, our internationals are technically available for this game, but they can only play 7 of the next 9 games in this block.

Andy Friend said:

“The only stipulation on those (Ireland) boys is that from an IRFU point of view there is nine games. It’s a 10-game block but the 10th game (at home to the Lions) will be leading into the Six Nations camp, so for the next nine games those Irish players are allowed to play seven.

So probably similar for our guys.

Don't see anyone who had significant November game time being played.

But I wonder might we decide to drop in Hugo for this given the lack of outside back options and his fairly light gametime so far this year.

Would put a different look to that back three.

Cosgrove (who it's likely to be if not) up to Hugo is a big leap up for an away game in Scotland.

[ronk]

Based on what has been said elsewhere, our internationals are technically available for this game, but they can only play 7 of the next 9 games in this block.

Andy Friend said:

“The only stipulation on those (Ireland) boys is that from an IRFU point of view there is nine games. It’s a 10-game block but the 10th game (at home to the Lions) will be leading into the Six Nations camp, so for the next nine games those Irish players are allowed to play seven.

So probably similar for our guys.

Don't see anyone who had significant November game time being played.

But I wonder might we decide to drop in Hugo for this given the lack of outside back options and his fairly light gametime so far this year.

Would put a different look to that back three.

Cosgrove (who it's likely to be if not) up to Hugo is a big leap up for an away game in Scotland.

It's in the RDS.

And Jimmy O'Brien would be an option I thought.

[wixfjord]

Based on what has been said elsewhere, our internationals are technically available for this game, but they can only play 7 of the next 9 games in this block.

Andy Friend said:

“The only stipulation on those (Ireland) boys is that from an IRFU point of view there is nine games. It’s a 10-game block but the 10th game (at home to the Lions) will be leading into the Six Nations camp, so for the next nine games those Irish players are allowed to play seven.

So probably similar for our guys.

Don't see anyone who had significant November game time being played.

But I wonder might we decide to drop in Hugo for this given the lack of outside back options and his fairly light gametime so far this year.

Would put a different look to that back three.

Cosgrove (who it's likely to be if not) up to Hugo is a big leap up for an away game in Scotland.

It's in the RDS.

And Jimmy O'Brien would be an option I thought.

JOB has a good bit more minutes under the belt, I'd say Keenan is more likely to be made available given he's lightly raced.

[curates_egg]

Based on what has been said elsewhere, our internationals are technically available for this game, but they can only play 7 of the next 9 games in this block.

Andy Friend said:

“The only stipulation on those (Ireland) boys is that from an IRFU point of view there is nine games. It’s a 10-game block but the 10th game (at home to the Lions) will be leading into the Six Nations camp, so for the next nine games those Irish players are allowed to play seven.

So probably similar for our guys.

Don't see anyone who had significant November game time being played.

But I wonder might we decide to drop in Hugo for this given the lack of outside back options and his fairly light gametime so far this year.

Would put a different look to that back three.

Cosgrove (who it's likely to be if not) up to Hugo is a big leap up for an away game in Scotland.

It's in the RDS.

And Jimmy O'Brien would be an option I thought.

Racked up a lot of time with Ireland/Ireland A over the past month.

[ronk]

So what though.

He's suddenly the back up 15 for Ireland and needs gametime there. And we can always rest him next week if we want.

Even if he's limited by gametime, Keenan can still play 7 of 9 games so there's only 2/3 weeks available for JOB to get a start at fullback. Can't waste those.

JOB might not be subject to the same restrictions because he might not be needed for the 6N as much with Lowe, Conway, Earls all coming back.

Internationals will be pulled for the 10th game so Leinster still have a slot to develop someone else.

[wixfjord]

Looking at both Leinster and Ireland minutes, it's far less likely that we'll get JOB back and more likely we'll get Hugo back.

So if we're going to play one of them, it'll probably be him, particularly given we need to bed him back in for Europe.

Keenan has 160 minutes for Ireland this season, 0 for Leinster.
JOB has 586 minutes in total this season, 5 starts for Leinster and 2 (1) for Ireland in last month.

In any case, doesn't look like either were training on Monday so this is all speculation.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I shouldn’t care about this but I don’t see how Keenan wasn’t in the team of the year, could understand more if he’d been behind Jaminet but he’s been far better than Steward (who I do rate very highly) IMO. Will Jordan and De Allende are both strange choices in the back line too. Am is a quality player but don’t see what he did to be nominated for WPOTY and I’d have Ringrose ahead of him in the team of the year. Doris unlucky to miss out too but not getting ahead of Aldritt is understandable, could have been ahead of Matera though even though Argentina had some big wins. Porter unlucky too but Genge has been great tbf. Sheehan unlucky as well, don’t think Marx has been great for a while, not like he’s even nailed down the starting role.

Irrelevant to this game sorry but just had a proper look at it now. It’s not just Irish bias either, Etzebeth and Savea should really be in it.

[Dexter]

I shouldn’t care about this but I don’t see how Keenan wasn’t in the team of the year, could understand more if he’d been behind Jaminet but he’s been far better than Steward (who I do rate very highly) IMO. Will Jordan and De Allende are both strange choices in the back line too. Am is a quality player but don’t see what he did to be nominated for WPOTY and I’d have Ringrose ahead of him in the team of the year. Doris unlucky to miss out too but not getting ahead of Aldritt is understandable, could have been ahead of Matera though even though Argentina had some big wins. Porter unlucky too but Genge has been great tbf. Sheehan unlucky as well, don’t think Marx has been great for a while, not like he’s even nailed down the starting role.

Irrelevant to this game sorry but just had a proper look at it now. It’s not just Irish bias either, Etzebeth and Savea should really be in it.

These teams are always like that though... 50% rubbish for political reasons.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I shouldn’t care about this but I don’t see how Keenan wasn’t in the team of the year, could understand more if he’d been behind Jaminet but he’s been far better than Steward (who I do rate very highly) IMO. Will Jordan and De Allende are both strange choices in the back line too. Am is a quality player but don’t see what he did to be nominated for WPOTY and I’d have Ringrose ahead of him in the team of the year. Doris unlucky to miss out too but not getting ahead of Aldritt is understandable, could have been ahead of Matera though even though Argentina had some big wins. Porter unlucky too but Genge has been great tbf. Sheehan unlucky as well, don’t think Marx has been great for a while, not like he’s even nailed down the starting role.

Irrelevant to this game sorry but just had a proper look at it now. It’s not just Irish bias either, Etzebeth and Savea should really be in it.

These teams are always like that though... 50% rubbish for political reasons.

Who are you counting as the half?

[D4surfer]

Bookies have this as a 16 point game with Leinster as 1/10 favourites. Glasgow are 17/2.

[wixfjord]

Bookies have this as a 16 point game with Leinster as 1/10 favourites. Glasgow are 17/2.

Wow that seems quite big given they'll have their Scottish guys back and we won't have 99% of our Irish guys available.

Having said that, it's probably based on the last time they came over...

[Blue Man]

Bookies have this as a 16 point game with Leinster as 1/10 favourites. Glasgow are 17/2.

Wow that seems quite big given they'll have their Scottish guys back and we won't have 99% of our Irish guys available.

Having said that, it's probably based on the last time they came over...

Relatively few Glasgow players in the Scottish team so one would expect a tough challenge given the impact of internationals and injuries that Leinster have to manage

[D4surfer]

Bookies have this as a 16 point game with Leinster as 1/10 favourites. Glasgow are 17/2.

Wow that seems quite big given they'll have their Scottish guys back and we won't have 99% of our Irish guys available.

Having said that, it's probably based on the last time they came over...

Relatively few Glasgow players in the Scottish team so one would expect a tough challenge given the impact of internationals and injuries that Leinster have to manage

The odds usually move once the teams have been announced. That will be interesting to watch.

[D4surfer]

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15.Jamie Osborne (21)
14. Rob Russell (10)
13. Liam Turner (8)
12. Charlie Ngatai (6)
11. Dave Kearney (177)
10. Ross Byrne (135)
9. Luke McGrath (181)
1. Ed Byrne (90)
2. Rónan Kelleher (38)
3. Thomas Clarkson (20)
4. Ross Molony (146)
5. Joe McCarthy (13)
6. Rhys Ruddock (213) CAPTAIN
7. Scott Penny (44)
8. Max Deegan (87)

16. John McKee (8)
17. Michael Milne (19)
18. Vakh Abdaladze (21)
19. Jason Jenkins (6)
20. Ryan Baird (41)
21. Cormac Foley (8)
22. Harry Byrne (36)
23. Chris Cosgrave (3)

Referee: Marius van der Westhuizen

[riocard911]

Strong looking team. Great to see RK and HB back!!!

[D4surfer]

Glasgow


1. Oli Kebble (82)
2. Fraser Brown (128)
3. Murphy Walker (8)
4. Sintu Manjezi (6)
5. Alex Samuel (1)
6. Gregor Brown (9)
7. Sione Vailanu (2)
8. Jack Dempsey (25)

9. George Horne (84)
10. Tom Jordan (6)
11. Rufus McLean (23)
12. Stafford McDowall (40)
13. Kyle Steyn (C) (52)
14. Sebastian Cancelliere (14)
15. Josh McKay (18)

Replacements

16. Johnny Matthews (32)
17. Jamie Bhatti (72)
18. Simon Berghan (15)
19. JP du Preez (5)
20. Lewis Bean (20)
21. Euan Ferrie (1)
22. Jamie Dobie (37)
23. Ross Thompson (38

[wixfjord]

Jamie 'not seen by Leinster coaches as a 15' again playing 15!

We've obviously decided to give Irish guys another week off bar McCarthy/Baird who had a very light Autumn.

Love the look of the pack, great balance there.

Clarkson is clearly ahead of Vakh.

Foley also seemingly ahead of McCarthy too?