Leinster v Sharks Sat 8th Oct 17.05pm RTE/Premier Sports

[cormac]

Anyone who has properly watched the incident knows that Abrahams didn't have time to react to Baird's late leap, even if he had seen it - which he didn't because he was fixed on the ball.

That's true but it's also not how those incidents have been reffed in the last few years.

The penalty against Keenan away to Glasgow last year comes to mind. He made contact with the head of a Glasgow player in the act of jumping and catching the ball. Glasgow fans went mad calling it a flying double elbow to the head.

Guess who reffed that game?

[Dexter]

The jumping player/s do so at the last second and it's by no means a given that anybody has to jump. Abrahams isn't somehow obliged to jump, he obviously calculated he would reach it at ground level. Everyone's watching the ball, everyone converges and Baird in the air ends up tipping over.

It's very different to your classic box kick scenario where a high ball is hung up over the head of the three quarter. The three quarter takes his/her fully-expected running jump up to claim the ball and an opposition player on the kickchase just ploughs though the clearly visible jumping player for having mistimed their catch attempt. That's foul play all day. The Baird incident was just three guys going for the same ball. Sure one guy chose not to jump last second but it's not like the laws oblige him to if he's 100% going for the ball.

Anyway, to each their own interpretation.

He's not obliged to jump.

He is obliged if he doesn't jump to have a duty of care for the person in the air and not do anything reckless.

It is the same as a box kick scenario. If you don't jump you can't just crash into someone who has jumped.

I've given the Lowe example above. Remember Jared Payne against Sarries also?

There was also one of the Leinster backs in Scarlet's a while back (Daly?) who got red carded when an opposition player jumped, he didn't, and the other player landed on him. No Leinster fans complained. So, the precedent was probably more red card then not, the problem is consistency and lack of clarity.

[Dexter]

Do you not think LRIP that had Baird caught the ball that it would almost certainly been red/yellow based on what we see week in and what we've seen in the past? In that scenario it doesn't differ greatly from Lowe V Munster or Payne V Sarries etc.

In my first post about this I said I was surprised it wasn’t a card, but my entire point is that I think these are just rugby incidents so shouldn’t be. The reason Baird couldn’t catch it is because the guy who took him out was in a legitimate position to catch the ball so I don’t think it matters about saying what would have happened if he had caught it. If he’d caught it it would probably be because the fullback arrived slightly later and therefore the situation changes.

Personally I didn’t think Lowe deserved a red for that incident and I don’t think the Payne one should be used as an example because that was the catalyst for these situations being reffed differently.

I just see everything that Abrahams did as being perfectly reasonable as a genuine attempt to catch the ball and wouldn’t want him punished for it. I really don’t see what else he could do there. Bundee used that excuse for his red card recently and that was nonsense because there was plenty he could have done differently and one of the options was just to let the jackaler have the ball, but I don’t see that as being reasonable in this case.

As far as I’m concerned it’s just the game. One guy will think he can sprint and catch the ball if he goes full tilt, another will think he’ll get it if he jumps, and at times they’re both right.

I would agree in that I don't think any of the other mentioned incidents should have been red cards either, but they were, so this should have been too.

[Dave Cahill]

There was also one of the Leinster backs in Scarlet's a while back (Daly?) who got red carded when an opposition player jumped, he didn't, and the other player landed on him. No Leinster fans complained.

Not quite, someone (not you btw) was very annoyed saying

Yet another stupid casualty of this stupid rule. You look at the ball all the way until the last second and yet someone jumping in the air in front of you can get you sent off. Pure nonsense.

and

The man in the air he wouldn't have known was there because he was looking at the ball until a millisecond before. Players jumping in the air directly in front of incoming players know the risks.

[Oldschoolsocks]

There was also one of the Leinster backs in Scarlet's a while back (Daly?) who got red carded when an opposition player jumped, he didn't, and the other player landed on him. No Leinster fans complained.

Not quite, someone (not you btw) was very annoyed saying

Yet another stupid casualty of this stupid rule. You look at the ball all the way until the last second and yet someone jumping in the air in front of you can get you sent off. Pure nonsense.

and

The man in the air he wouldn't have known was there because he was looking at the ball until a millisecond before. Players jumping in the air directly in front of incoming players know the risks.

Janey Mack Dave, you went back to November 2016 to find those quotes. Respect...

[paddyor]

That's true but it's also not how those incidents have been reffed in the last few years.

The penalty against Keenan away to Glasgow last year comes to mind. He made contact with the head of a Glasgow player in the act of jumping and catching the ball. Glasgow fans went mad calling it a flying double elbow to the head.

Guess who reffed that game?

I thought it was a bullshit decision at the time. The definition of a "rugby incident" IMO and I wonder did it color his judgement this time out(rightly or wrongly)

I'm not sure it was a card FWIW. Iif he jumped he'd have cleaned out his own player and probably Baird too. As I see it he's looking to cover any possible drop by his own player and then Baird jumps and it's too late to do anything

[leinsterforever]

Russell showed up well, which is a big positive in light of how few quality options there are at wing atm.

Sexton's picking of passes and timing are sublime. How is he still this good at 37? He's genuinely playing some of the best rugby of his career.

[FLIP]

There was also one of the Leinster backs in Scarlet's a while back (Daly?) who got red carded when an opposition player jumped, he didn't, and the other player landed on him. No Leinster fans complained.

Not quite, someone (not you btw) was very annoyed saying

Yet another stupid casualty of this stupid rule. You look at the ball all the way until the last second and yet someone jumping in the air in front of you can get you sent off. Pure nonsense.

and

The man in the air he wouldn't have known was there because he was looking at the ball until a millisecond before. Players jumping in the air directly in front of incoming players know the risks.

2016 was a long time ago and the emergence and seriousness of the consequences of head injuries (Cattigan, Thompson etc) has changed my mind on the issue.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

There was also one of the Leinster backs in Scarlet's a while back (Daly?) who got red carded when an opposition player jumped, he didn't, and the other player landed on him. No Leinster fans complained.

Not quite, someone (not you btw) was very annoyed saying

Yet another stupid casualty of this stupid rule. You look at the ball all the way until the last second and yet someone jumping in the air in front of you can get you sent off. Pure nonsense.

and

The man in the air he wouldn't have known was there because he was looking at the ball until a millisecond before. Players jumping in the air directly in front of incoming players know the risks.

That has to be me is it?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Russell showed up well, which is a big positive in light of how few quality options there are at wing atm.

Sexton's picking of passes and timing are sublime. How is he still this good at 37? He's genuinely playing some of the best rugby of his career.

He really was excellent, did notice he looked very tired towards the end though. Early in the season but I don’t ever remember seeing it before.

[Dave Cahill]

That has to be me is it?

Nope!

[wixfjord]

That has to be me is it?

Nope!

Had to have a look see. At least I'm consistent!

https://www.leinsterfans.com/forum/view ... 54#p676754

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That has to be me is it?

Nope!

Oh that’s hilarious, thanks.

[Dexter]

There was also one of the Leinster backs in Scarlet's a while back (Daly?) who got red carded when an opposition player jumped, he didn't, and the other player landed on him. No Leinster fans complained.

Not quite, someone (not you btw) was very annoyed saying

Yet another stupid casualty of this stupid rule. You look at the ball all the way until the last second and yet someone jumping in the air in front of you can get you sent off. Pure nonsense.

and

The man in the air he wouldn't have known was there because he was looking at the ball until a millisecond before. Players jumping in the air directly in front of incoming players know the risks.

Haha fair play Dave. I thought no-one would go and check my bold claim that NO complaints were made! Rumbled....

[the spoofer]

Did anyone see how long the Sharks lad got for the red? I missed the decision

[Xanthippe]

Did anyone see how long the Sharks lad got for the red? I missed the decision

It appears he got 4 weeks but I can't find anything official from the URC - that's from an article on News24 Sport

https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/unit ... d-20221014

[the spoofer]

Did anyone see how long the Sharks lad got for the red? I missed the decision

It appears he got 4 weeks but I can't find anything official from the URC - that's from an article on News24 Sport

https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/unit ... d-20221014

Thanks Xan. I thought I had lost it trying to find the decision on URC site.

[brotheroffrank]

Ferocious game. One of the best I have ever seen at the RDS.

We know who our next coach will be as well. Noel McNamara has that Sharks attack cutting teams to shreds.

And now we get to do it all again in Lansdowne Rd.....