Lancaster set to leave

[Dexter]

From an English paper of note

Timing kind to attract Lancaster's successor

If the Leinster coach does leave then there are candidates out there to take over
Another season back at the RDS and this time with added attractions for Leinster fans. Before Friday night's victory over Benetton, season ticket holders got to hear the thoughts of Johnny Sexton, James Lowe and Tadhg Furlong in the impressive new fan zone at the Simmonscourt Road end. On the pitch, the excellence of new signing Jason Jenkins was overshadowed only by Dan Sheehan's four-try blitz.
Yet these were mere distractions from the main talking point of the week the departure to Racing 92 of Stuart Lancaster, who sat as usual with his colleagues in the Leinster coaches' box, albeit at a polite distance.
One frustration for supporters is the lack of clarity over the whys and wherefores of Lancaster leaving. Largely, this has been caused by the stark difference between the way that French and Irish clubs interact with their respective mainstream media.
In France, the relationship can seem remarkably free and easy, as information is leaked well in advance of official statements. The rationale is that by keeping media colleagues in the know, you ensure generous coverage and therefore sell more tickets. The ensuing good will means that the media will occasionally turn blind eyes to an unsavoury story. So the theory goes, anyway.
Hence the story of Lancaster signing a four-year deal being reported as fact in France, even though Leinster are saying that they haven't yet received definitive word from him. This, they say, is why they have not issued a statement beyond Leo Cullen's comments on Wednesday, when he dismissed press reports as "speculation".
The problem with the information gap is that it leaves players and fans guessing the reasons for Lancaster's departure. Has it anything to do with the fact that Leinster went without a trophy last season, for the first time in five years? Have Leinster been slow to react to news of Racing's interest, which was first reported in France as far back as July? This is a Leinster appointment, so the IRFU can't be blamed for any heel-dragging.
Our understanding is that Leinster haven't made any counter-offer, even though Lancaster is already in the final year of his deal. This makes it sound like they are unwilling to compete with a Top 14-sized contract. They may also have decided that after seven seasons, they will need a fresh voice.
If this feels like an awkward split, maybe it's worth remembering that it was an unconventional hook-up in the first place, largely brokered by a player Sexton who had just returned from the same Racing 92.
By sacking Matt O'Connor towards the end of the 2014/15 season without a ready-made successor, one of Europe's top clubs found themselves with a caretaker coach in Cullen, who had only recently retired.
It was through an unlikely set of coincidences that Lancaster ended up commuting to Dublin from Leeds, initially as defence coach. He has ended up in an unusual position
the dominant figure when it comes to team preparation, yet subordinate to Cullen, who carries the title of head coach while doing more of a directorof-rugby role.
There is some speculation that Leinster will struggle to attract another high-pedigree coach to a position that does not offer real autonomy, given Cullen's position as overseer, and also given the preeminence of the national team within the Irish system.
But this is a good time to be going to the market place. Lots of Test quality coaches will be out of contract at the end of the World Cup and lots of them will be happy to take a tracksuit role at a club that enjoys a steady stream of top-quality local talent. Leinster may not be able to match Jacky Lorenzetti's numbers but they will pay well and the new chief executive Shane Nolan who starts his role in November will surely want to land a big fish.

One frustration for supporters is the lack of clarity over the whys and wherefores of Lancaster leaving. Largely, this has been caused by the stark difference between the way that French and Irish clubs interact with their respective mainstream media.
I don't think there's any frustration tbh, I think most of us understand that coaches move on, I mean when Stu came on board our coaching team was Leo Cullen, Stu Lancaster, Girve Dempsey, John Fogarty and Richie Murphy of that 5, two remain. Dr Phil came in to replace Girve and in turn he has moved on to be replaced by Andrew Goodman, John Fogarty moved on to be replaced by Robin McBryde, Richie Murphy moved on to be replaced by Emmet Farrell and we picked up Denis Leamy as a contact skills coach who has also moved on to be replaced by Sean O'Brien.

there is nothing in there to suggest to a fan that Stu Lancaster would be staying on forever - in fact he's in what his 7th season now which seems a lot longer than most have.

The problem with the information gap is that it leaves players and fans guessing the reasons for Lancaster's departure. Has it anything to do with the fact that Leinster went without a trophy last season, for the first time in five years? Have Leinster been slow to react to news of Racing's interest, which was first reported in France as far back as July?

I don't think anyone is actually guessing the reason for Lancaster's departure - it's probably four or five reasons. Where he is in his family life with the kids now in college, a chance to live in Paris which is a great city, probably a pretty big cheque book to sign players and a chance to try to implement his vision on a team of galactic. You then have to factor in the dumptruck full of cash they also reversed up and emptied onto his driveway.

But this is a good time to be going to the market place. Lots of Test quality coaches will be out of contract at the end of the World Cup and lots of them will be happy to take a tracksuit role at a club that enjoys a steady stream of top-quality local talent.

if the past is anything to go by Leinster Rugby will most likely be looking at a good quality assistant coach who is looking to develop their career in one of the best shop windows in European or world rugby.

For "supporters", "players" and "fans", just substitute the word "journalist" and it'll give a more accurate take to the article and to the words "frustration" and "problem".

[wixfjord]

Couple of names that have been randomly mentioned by media and fans in recent days -

Tony Brown
Wayne Smith
Scott Wisemantel
Noel McNamara
Shaun Edwards (!)

[RoboProp]

Couple of names that have been randomly mentioned by media and fans in recent days -

Tony Brown
Wayne Smith
Scott Wisemantel
Noel McNamara
Shaun Edwards (!)

Tony Brown for me from that list. Scott Robertson would be on my wish list, who doesn't want to see him breakdancing in front of the Angelsea Stand

[joooooe]

Couple of names that have been randomly mentioned by media and fans in recent days -

Tony Brown
Wayne Smith
Scott Wisemantel
Noel McNamara
Shaun Edwards (!)

Tony Brown for me from that list. Scott Robertson would be on my wish list, who doesn't want to see him breakdancing in front of the Angelsea Stand

Mentioned by both the42 Rugby Weekly and Second Captains this week.

[Ruckedtobits]

There's a lot of useful / useless speculation about Stuart Lancaster's departure at the end of the season. Why is he going? Who will replace him? Who will decide who replaces him? Have Leinster lost too many key faces at the same time?

At some point Mick Dawson, or his successor Shane Nolan, will make a Statement about the process and it will probably be after the Leinster Branch Executive meeting in October.

Mick, or Shane Nolan, will point out that the Branch has a Professional Game Board (committee) which meets very regularly and includes the Head Coach -Leo Cullen - the Chief Executive - Mick Dawson, the Manager of the Senior Team - Guy Easterby, a Leinster Executive Committee nominated Chairman and a couple of experienced independent former players. That group will determine a process for the selection of the next coaching team.

As in the case of Michael Cheika, Stuart Lancaster's (early) decision provides the Professional Game Board with a significant lead time to determine a suitable process and an opportunity to establish the criteria under which they will commence their search. Arguably, the role which will become vacant next summer, is now even more sought after than in the summer of 2010, when Leinster had one star on their jersey and Joe Schmidt was a lesser known NZ assistant coach to Vern Cotter in Clermont.

It is reasonable to speculate that Leinster and, in particular, Leo Cullen, got far more than they expected from Stuart Lancaster. He has made an extraordinary impact in Leinster Rugby, both in pure coaching and in overall management. He came with a wealth of international experience and an open mind and Leinster's rugby management has benefitted from both the experience and the outlook.

There has been some, IMO stupid, commentary as to whether his period with Leinster should have resulted in more European Cup victories in order to validate his contribution. However, the persistent excellence of the team performances are sufficient evidence of Lancaster's qualities as Head Coach. To have prepared a Squad / Team to be consistently in the top 2 or top 4, year on year for seven seasons, is a measure of excellence that only the best rugby coaches in the world have attained since the game went professional. I would speculate that there may be no more than four / five coaches in this category To have done so whilst also coaching more that 50% of a National Squad which progressed to No 1 ranked team in the world, may well be a unique achievement, at least for a NH Coach.

He will not easily be replaced. His departure may necessitate a rethink by Leinster as to how they should undertake the Squad Coaching and development in his wake. It will be interesting to watch and wonder.

[wixfjord]

Couple of names that have been randomly mentioned by media and fans in recent days -

Tony Brown
Wayne Smith
Scott Wisemantel
Noel McNamara
Shaun Edwards (!)

Tony Brown for me from that list. Scott Robertson would be on my wish list, who doesn't want to see him breakdancing in front of the Angelsea Stand

Yes Robertson has been mentioned a few times also.

[ronk]

He will not easily be replaced. His departure may necessitate a rethink by Leinster as to how they should undertake the Squad Coaching and development in his wake. It will be interesting to watch and wonder.

The secret to replacing the irreplaceable is to do something different. Leinster will restructure, the last time we didn't MOC tried to wear the same hats as Joe.

[Oldschoolsocks]

He will not easily be replaced. His departure may necessitate a rethink by Leinster as to how they should undertake the Squad Coaching and development in his wake. It will be interesting to watch and wonder.

The secret to replacing the irreplaceable is to do something different. Leinster will restructure, the last time we didn't MOC tried to wear the same hats as Joe.

MOC's problem was not the hats he was trying to wear, it was what was under the hats

[RoboProp]

He will not easily be replaced. His departure may necessitate a rethink by Leinster as to how they should undertake the Squad Coaching and development in his wake. It will be interesting to watch and wonder.

The secret to replacing the irreplaceable is to do something different. Leinster will restructure, the last time we didn't MOC tried to wear the same hats as Joe.

MOC's problem was not the hats he was trying to wear, it was what was under the hats

One of MOC's biggest problems was he was trying to be best buds with the players and be one of the boys. That sh1t don't fly anymore

[leinsterforever]

Couple of names that have been randomly mentioned by media and fans in recent days -

Tony Brown
Wayne Smith
Scott Wisemantel
Noel McNamara
Shaun Edwards (!)

Most of them would primarily be backs/attack coaches, which is a position already occupied by Goodman.

Would somebody like Gibbes or Plumtree not fit the vacancy better?

[naraic]

Most of them would primarily be backs/attack coaches, which is a position already occupied by Goodman.

Would somebody like Gibbes or Plumtree not fit the vacancy better?

It depends. Its hard to tell where coaches areas of responsibility start and end.

The media seems to go 50/50 on if McBryde is our forwards and scrum coach or just a scrum coach.

If he is forwards and scrum coach then Lancaster is essentially a defense coach probably. If McBryde is a scrum coach primarily then Lancaster is probably covering forwards and defence.

I believe that McBryde is forwards and scrum.

Whats needed more than anything is for Leo to define what we are looking for and then with the professional game board he can go and look for it.

There is an argument that Lancaster doesn't need to be replaced. If he is mainly a defence coach who works with Leo and shoulders some of the head coach burden too then the internal option would be for contact skills (SOB) to become defence and Leo to take more responsibility as head coach.

If we are looking for a forwards coach Plumtree would be an amazing appointment (and he is available at the moment last I heard he was coaching NPC rugby free of charge).

Its worth noting that McBryde is in his last year of his contract and leo is on a rolling year to year contract so a decision about their contracts could be necessary in reviewing the coaching set up as a whole.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Couple of names that have been randomly mentioned by media and fans in recent days -

Tony Brown
Wayne Smith
Scott Wisemantel
Noel McNamara
Shaun Edwards (!)

Would it be a shock for Goodman to take the step up?

Successful unit coach to a hugely successful team?

[leinsterforever]

Most of them would primarily be backs/attack coaches, which is a position already occupied by Goodman.

Would somebody like Gibbes or Plumtree not fit the vacancy better?

It depends. Its hard to tell where coaches areas of responsibility start and end.

The media seems to go 50/50 on if McBryde is our forwards and scrum coach or just a scrum coach.

If he is forwards and scrum coach then Lancaster is essentially a defense coach probably. If McBryde is a scrum coach primarily then Lancaster is probably covering forwards and defence.

I believe that McBryde is forwards and scrum.

Whats needed more than anything is for Leo to define what we are looking for and then with the professional game board he can go and look for it.

There is an argument that Lancaster doesn't need to be replaced. If he is mainly a defence coach who works with Leo and shoulders some of the head coach burden too then the internal option would be for contact skills (SOB) to become defence and Leo to take more responsibility as head coach.

If we are looking for a forwards coach Plumtree would be an amazing appointment (and he is available at the moment last I heard he was coaching NPC rugby free of charge).

Its worth noting that McBryde is in his last year of his contract and leo is on a rolling year to year contract so a decision about their contracts could be necessary in reviewing the coaching set up as a whole.

Well, it depends who's available too. If there's a really good forwards coach out there and a less good defence coach, it would be worth considering switching McBryde to coaching defence and bringing in the forwards coach.

I would have reservations about O'Brien taking on a bigger role this early in his coaching career.

I'd say what's possibly most likely is that Goodman or McBryde will fill the role of "senior coach", and a new assistant will be brought in to coach defence or forwards.

[munster#1]

Firstly I would like to say how jealous I am that Leinster had/have Lancaster as a coach.
He definitely appears to have been the catalyst for Leinster reaching the heights that they have since his arrival, both in terms of on field results and player development.

When you read comments from players, it definitely appears that he leads many of the coaching sessions and drives the standard.
Imo he will be as big a loss for Ireland as he will for Leinster.

Looking at some of the names been thrown around, you’d have to think that a reshuffle is required prior to getting some of these.
I don’t think a coach like Robertson will come is as senior coach, but may as head coach.
For this Leo would have to officially move to DOR, which he may not be willing to do.

[Oldschool]

What's Andy Farrell doing after the RWC?, especially if we repeat our usual QF exit.
Could we wait a year (I think) when he becomes available,.

[riocard911]

'When you get a Stuart Lancaster, you get a Klopp, a Guardiola, the best coach in world rugby'

Leinster made an inspired choice when they appointed Stuart Lancaster in 2016 – they now face an even harder task to find his replacement.

by Garry Doyle

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-l ... 3-Oct2022/

[curates_egg]

Couple of names that have been randomly mentioned by media and fans in recent days -

Tony Brown
Wayne Smith
Scott Wisemantel
Noel McNamara
Shaun Edwards (!)

Geordie Murphy also mentioned...by BOD

By my count, this is at least the third time that Tony Brown has been mentioned as the potential next Leinster coach.

[Morf]

'When you get a Stuart Lancaster, you get a Klopp, a Guardiola, the best coach in world rugby'

Leinster made an inspired choice when they appointed Stuart Lancaster in 2016 – they now face an even harder task to find his replacement.

by Garry Doyle

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-l ... 3-Oct2022/

How many times does Garry mention Munster?

[suisse]

Every time a vacancy appears at an Irish province, people get really excited to see their team linked with the best coaches at the most high profile jobs. Leinster are not going to hire Scott Robertson, Tony Brown or Jamie Joseph. I doubt any of them would be interested. They're just big names. The managerial situation is so unclear in NZ post 2023 RWC, I'd just stay clear of any of those big hitters.

Leinster are likely to recruit within, or approach a coach a little under the radar in France or a kiwi coach not intnhe running for a top job there even when there's some major reshuffles, like Goodman. Baxter, Borthwick, Shaun Edwards are also out.

I'd be very confident of Leinster doing a really good job identifying potential targets and getting the right man. That coach will need to be made aware though that this isn't a club. He can't sign who he wants, minutes per international are dictated and he might lose young stars for nonsensical tours.

[elephantman]

Couple of names that have been randomly mentioned by media and fans in recent days -

Tony Brown
Wayne Smith
Scott Wisemantel
Noel McNamara
Shaun Edwards (!)

Geordie Murphy also mentioned...by BOD

By my count, this is at least the third time that Tony Brown has been mentioned as the potential next Leinster coach.

I couldn’t believe my ears when BOD threw Geordan Murphy’s name into the mix. Absolutely bonkers.