Lancaster set to leave

[wixfjord]

Interesting point here from Leo on how you quantify success.

“Do we always define success as winning trophies or do we look to other things? Do we look at seeing X amount of Leinster guys going on to represent Ireland and play in New Zealand or play in Six Nations games or whatever, or go on an Emerging Ireland tour? What does success actually look like?

“I suppose we were on a decent run when you think, what, five trophies in the previous four years, none last year, so it depends what way you look at it. Five over five years? How far do you go back to suit a narrative for yourself?

“But ultimately there’s the day-to-day piece which is the foundation of what everything is built on. If you just focus purely on the trophy part, then certain poor behaviours would probably be accepted beneath it which will eventually erode the whole culture of the organisation anyway.”

The last line is a good one. As fans we measure success in trophies, but as players/coaches, they have to trust the process and hope the outcome will look after itself.

i'd be interested to see If Sexton agrees.

You're missing the point I think.

What I read from what Leo says is winning trophies is clearly very important, but it's also not always within your control. It's not the case of 'finish a season with a trophy = success, finish without a trophy = failure'.

If you focus only on winning trophies in a setup like Leinster, you'll create short term gain for long term pain (MOC) and you'll also create enemies in your ultimate employer, IRFU.

That isn't to say winning isn't a goal, but you focus first on the building blocks rather than just measuring yourself on whether you have silverware.

This would be a fairly common sports psychology approach in many great teams.

[Ruckedtobits]

I wonder would Plumtree fancy a return to Ireland.

Goodman's there for backs/attack, you've got Cullen essentially in a DOR role, and McBryde or AN Other as scrum coach, so you're really looking for someone to coach lineout, maul and defence. Plumtree was lineout and maul coach for Ireland, and I believe he was Hurricanes' defence coach when they won the Super Rugby title. The aggressive linespeed he coached was new in New Zealand at the time and opponents struggled to get to grips with it, as I recall.

He might be a good fit if personalities fit between him and existing coaches and if he's good at player development.

Not a signing I would welcome if trophies are the objective.

[OTT]

We had won 4 leagues in a row and lost in the semi final of the last one.

We have got to the big show in 3 of the last 5 European finals.

Being devastated and disappointed about losing a big match, that’s normal, getting tied up about how we could have done things better, also normal if unhelpful because it won’t change the result after the fact. But to not realise we are a privileged group of fans that our teams gets to all these finals and winning all these competitions in reflection is just burying the head in the sand and people should reset their expectation levels. Toulouse have won 5 European Cups and we laud them, we are next best on 4 and we underachieve. Get real.

I sat and watched the Liverpool European Cup final after we had lost to La Rochelle, I support United and my friend supported Liverpool. In the end he had a very hard day with both Leinster and Liverpool losing yet I was jealous of him because Liverpool were there and I was sat watching a game knowing my team were miles off that level.

Lancaster has been a hugely successful coach with Leinster and he will be a massive void to fill (if he goes). He’s been a breath of fresh air.

[Flash Gordon]

We had won 4 leagues in a row and lost in the semi final of the last one.

We have got to the big show in 3 of the last 5 European finals.

Being devastated and disappointed about losing a big match, that’s normal, getting tied up about how we could have done things better, also normal if unhelpful because it won’t change the result after the fact. But to not realise we are a privileged group of fans that our teams gets to all these finals and winning all these competitions in reflection is just burying the head in the sand and people should reset their expectation levels. Toulouse have won 5 European Cups and we laud them, we are next best on 4 and we underachieve. Get real.

I sat and watched the Liverpool European Cup final after we had lost to La Rochelle, I support United and my friend supported Liverpool. In the end he had a very hard day with both Leinster and Liverpool losing yet I was jealous of him because Liverpool were there and I was sat watching a game knowing my team were miles off that level.

Lancaster has been a hugely successful coach with Leinster and he will be a massive void to fill (if he goes). He’s been a breath of fresh air.

Absolutely. We have no right to win anything and we've won an awful lot during the Lancaster era and we got very close to winning everything. Importantly we've also developed a way of playing that is very much the Leinster way (as opposed to the MOC way) which is fantastic to watch and which has ultimately benefited Ireland. I find this "under achievement" conversation baffling. Yes we had resources but who created and coached those resources?

[naraic]

Apparently a done deal.

4 year contract

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 12481.html

[CiaranIrl]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnny go with him to be a a skills/attack assistant coach in Paris.

[D4surfer]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnny go with him to be a a skills/attack assistant coach in Paris.

Johnny has stated on several occasions that he has no desire to go into coaching as he wants to spend his weekends with his family.

[RoboProp]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnny go with him to be a a skills/attack assistant coach in Paris.

Johnny has stated on several occasions that he has no desire to go into coaching as he wants to spend his weekends with his family.

This is very understandable; huge loss to Irish rugby as he has one of the best rugby brains out there, bar none, but if we've learned anything from the Fast and Furious movie franchise, and I like to think that we all have is that it's all about family

[blockhead]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Johnny go with him to be a a skills/attack assistant coach in Paris.

Johnny has stated on several occasions that he has no desire to go into coaching as he wants to spend his weekends with his family.

This is very understandable; huge loss to Irish rugby as he has one of the best rugby brains out there, bar none, but if we've learned anything from the Fast and Furious movie franchise, and I like to think that we all have is that it's all about family

Getting the right coach at the right time requires some amount of luck. We've struck gold 3 out of the last 4 times. Can we do it again?

[leinsterforever]

I wonder would Plumtree fancy a return to Ireland.

Goodman's there for backs/attack, you've got Cullen essentially in a DOR role, and McBryde or AN Other as scrum coach, so you're really looking for someone to coach lineout, maul and defence. Plumtree was lineout and maul coach for Ireland, and I believe he was Hurricanes' defence coach when they won the Super Rugby title. The aggressive linespeed he coached was new in New Zealand at the time and opponents struggled to get to grips with it, as I recall.

He might be a good fit if personalities fit between him and existing coaches and if he's good at player development.

Not a signing I would welcome if trophies are the objective.

Based on what? I'm genuinely curious.

The lineout and maul were excellent when he was Ireland's forwards coach. And the Hurricanes' defence was good under him.

You think he isn't head coach/senior coach material?

[jezzer]

Don't imagine John Mitchell would fit 100% the profile Leinster are looking for, but with the Wasps situation he's likely to be available. Seems to have been happy to defer to a head coach in Wasps. Who knows?

[naraic]

I wonder if there will be a direct replacement for Lancaster.

Leo Cullen is the head coach.
Goodman is the backs coach.
Sean O'Brien is the contact skills coach which is essentially half the role of a defence coach. Maybe he will step up to be defense coach next season.
McBryde is the forwards and scrum coach.

While Lancaster has done good work with Leinster maybe he doesn't need to be directly replaced. There could be a full complement of coaches in situ.

That said there might be a replacement. Leo might decide that there needs to be more ideas coming in.

[Theleinsterlad]

I wonder if there will be a direct replacement for Lancaster.

Leo Cullen is the head coach.
Goodman is the backs coach.
Sean O'Brien is the contact skills coach which is essentially half the role of a defence coach. Maybe he will step up to be defense coach next season.
McBryde is the forwards and scrum coach.

While Lancaster has done good work with Leinster maybe he doesn't need to be directly replaced. There could be a full complement of coaches in situ.

That said there might be a replacement. Leo might decide that there needs to be more ideas coming in.

Leinster need structure, our players are training at the top end of performance each week and expect no less, you need a stu role to structure that with the other coaches adding in. It would be a mistake not to bring in someone

[Blue Man]

I’d like to see Leo as DOR and think we need two new coaches; a head coach and a defence coach

[Dave Cahill]

Apparently Stu is on Press Duty today, so we may find out something, everything, or nothing

[Purist98]

Confirmed leaving at the end of the season to Racing

[blockhead]

From an English paper of note

Timing kind to attract Lancaster's successor

If the Leinster coach does leave then there are candidates out there to take over
Another season back at the RDS and this time with added attractions for Leinster fans. Before Friday night's victory over Benetton, season ticket holders got to hear the thoughts of Johnny Sexton, James Lowe and Tadhg Furlong in the impressive new fan zone at the Simmonscourt Road end. On the pitch, the excellence of new signing Jason Jenkins was overshadowed only by Dan Sheehan's four-try blitz.
Yet these were mere distractions from the main talking point of the week the departure to Racing 92 of Stuart Lancaster, who sat as usual with his colleagues in the Leinster coaches' box, albeit at a polite distance.
One frustration for supporters is the lack of clarity over the whys and wherefores of Lancaster leaving. Largely, this has been caused by the stark difference between the way that French and Irish clubs interact with their respective mainstream media.
In France, the relationship can seem remarkably free and easy, as information is leaked well in advance of official statements. The rationale is that by keeping media colleagues in the know, you ensure generous coverage and therefore sell more tickets. The ensuing good will means that the media will occasionally turn blind eyes to an unsavoury story. So the theory goes, anyway.
Hence the story of Lancaster signing a four-year deal being reported as fact in France, even though Leinster are saying that they haven't yet received definitive word from him. This, they say, is why they have not issued a statement beyond Leo Cullen's comments on Wednesday, when he dismissed press reports as "speculation".
The problem with the information gap is that it leaves players and fans guessing the reasons for Lancaster's departure. Has it anything to do with the fact that Leinster went without a trophy last season, for the first time in five years? Have Leinster been slow to react to news of Racing's interest, which was first reported in France as far back as July? This is a Leinster appointment, so the IRFU can't be blamed for any heel-dragging.
Our understanding is that Leinster haven't made any counter-offer, even though Lancaster is already in the final year of his deal. This makes it sound like they are unwilling to compete with a Top 14-sized contract. They may also have decided that after seven seasons, they will need a fresh voice.
If this feels like an awkward split, maybe it's worth remembering that it was an unconventional hook-up in the first place, largely brokered by a player Sexton who had just returned from the same Racing 92.
By sacking Matt O'Connor towards the end of the 2014/15 season without a ready-made successor, one of Europe's top clubs found themselves with a caretaker coach in Cullen, who had only recently retired.
It was through an unlikely set of coincidences that Lancaster ended up commuting to Dublin from Leeds, initially as defence coach. He has ended up in an unusual position
the dominant figure when it comes to team preparation, yet subordinate to Cullen, who carries the title of head coach while doing more of a directorof-rugby role.
There is some speculation that Leinster will struggle to attract another high-pedigree coach to a position that does not offer real autonomy, given Cullen's position as overseer, and also given the preeminence of the national team within the Irish system.
But this is a good time to be going to the market place. Lots of Test quality coaches will be out of contract at the end of the World Cup and lots of them will be happy to take a tracksuit role at a club that enjoys a steady stream of top-quality local talent. Leinster may not be able to match Jacky Lorenzetti's numbers but they will pay well and the new chief executive Shane Nolan who starts his role in November will surely want to land a big fish.

[hugonaut]

From an English paper of note

Timing kind to attract Lancaster's successor

If the Leinster coach does leave then there are candidates out there to take over
Another season back at the RDS and this time with added attractions for Leinster fans. Before Friday night's victory over Benetton, season ticket holders got to hear the thoughts of Johnny Sexton, James Lowe and Tadhg Furlong in the impressive new fan zone at the Simmonscourt Road end. On the pitch, the excellence of new signing Jason Jenkins was overshadowed only by Dan Sheehan's four-try blitz.
Yet these were mere distractions from the main talking point of the week the departure to Racing 92 of Stuart Lancaster, who sat as usual with his colleagues in the Leinster coaches' box, albeit at a polite distance.
One frustration for supporters is the lack of clarity over the whys and wherefores of Lancaster leaving. Largely, this has been caused by the stark difference between the way that French and Irish clubs interact with their respective mainstream media.
In France, the relationship can seem remarkably free and easy, as information is leaked well in advance of official statements. The rationale is that by keeping media colleagues in the know, you ensure generous coverage and therefore sell more tickets. The ensuing good will means that the media will occasionally turn blind eyes to an unsavoury story. So the theory goes, anyway.
Hence the story of Lancaster signing a four-year deal being reported as fact in France, even though Leinster are saying that they haven't yet received definitive word from him. This, they say, is why they have not issued a statement beyond Leo Cullen's comments on Wednesday, when he dismissed press reports as "speculation".
The problem with the information gap is that it leaves players and fans guessing the reasons for Lancaster's departure. Has it anything to do with the fact that Leinster went without a trophy last season, for the first time in five years? Have Leinster been slow to react to news of Racing's interest, which was first reported in France as far back as July? This is a Leinster appointment, so the IRFU can't be blamed for any heel-dragging.
Our understanding is that Leinster haven't made any counter-offer, even though Lancaster is already in the final year of his deal. This makes it sound like they are unwilling to compete with a Top 14-sized contract. They may also have decided that after seven seasons, they will need a fresh voice.
If this feels like an awkward split, maybe it's worth remembering that it was an unconventional hook-up in the first place, largely brokered by a player Sexton who had just returned from the same Racing 92.
By sacking Matt O'Connor towards the end of the 2014/15 season without a ready-made successor, one of Europe's top clubs found themselves with a caretaker coach in Cullen, who had only recently retired.
It was through an unlikely set of coincidences that Lancaster ended up commuting to Dublin from Leeds, initially as defence coach. He has ended up in an unusual position
the dominant figure when it comes to team preparation, yet subordinate to Cullen, who carries the title of head coach while doing more of a directorof-rugby role.
There is some speculation that Leinster will struggle to attract another high-pedigree coach to a position that does not offer real autonomy, given Cullen's position as overseer, and also given the preeminence of the national team within the Irish system.
But this is a good time to be going to the market place. Lots of Test quality coaches will be out of contract at the end of the World Cup and lots of them will be happy to take a tracksuit role at a club that enjoys a steady stream of top-quality local talent. Leinster may not be able to match Jacky Lorenzetti's numbers but they will pay well and the new chief executive Shane Nolan who starts his role in November will surely want to land a big fish.

Who wrote that and where is it from?

[Oldschoolsocks]

From an English paper of note

Timing kind to attract Lancaster's successor

If the Leinster coach does leave then there are candidates out there to take over
Another season back at the RDS and this time with added attractions for Leinster fans. Before Friday night's victory over Benetton, season ticket holders got to hear the thoughts of Johnny Sexton, James Lowe and Tadhg Furlong in the impressive new fan zone at the Simmonscourt Road end. On the pitch, the excellence of new signing Jason Jenkins was overshadowed only by Dan Sheehan's four-try blitz.
Yet these were mere distractions from the main talking point of the week the departure to Racing 92 of Stuart Lancaster, who sat as usual with his colleagues in the Leinster coaches' box, albeit at a polite distance.
One frustration for supporters is the lack of clarity over the whys and wherefores of Lancaster leaving. Largely, this has been caused by the stark difference between the way that French and Irish clubs interact with their respective mainstream media.
In France, the relationship can seem remarkably free and easy, as information is leaked well in advance of official statements. The rationale is that by keeping media colleagues in the know, you ensure generous coverage and therefore sell more tickets. The ensuing good will means that the media will occasionally turn blind eyes to an unsavoury story. So the theory goes, anyway.
Hence the story of Lancaster signing a four-year deal being reported as fact in France, even though Leinster are saying that they haven't yet received definitive word from him. This, they say, is why they have not issued a statement beyond Leo Cullen's comments on Wednesday, when he dismissed press reports as "speculation".
The problem with the information gap is that it leaves players and fans guessing the reasons for Lancaster's departure. Has it anything to do with the fact that Leinster went without a trophy last season, for the first time in five years? Have Leinster been slow to react to news of Racing's interest, which was first reported in France as far back as July? This is a Leinster appointment, so the IRFU can't be blamed for any heel-dragging.
Our understanding is that Leinster haven't made any counter-offer, even though Lancaster is already in the final year of his deal. This makes it sound like they are unwilling to compete with a Top 14-sized contract. They may also have decided that after seven seasons, they will need a fresh voice.
If this feels like an awkward split, maybe it's worth remembering that it was an unconventional hook-up in the first place, largely brokered by a player Sexton who had just returned from the same Racing 92.
By sacking Matt O'Connor towards the end of the 2014/15 season without a ready-made successor, one of Europe's top clubs found themselves with a caretaker coach in Cullen, who had only recently retired.
It was through an unlikely set of coincidences that Lancaster ended up commuting to Dublin from Leeds, initially as defence coach. He has ended up in an unusual position
the dominant figure when it comes to team preparation, yet subordinate to Cullen, who carries the title of head coach while doing more of a directorof-rugby role.
There is some speculation that Leinster will struggle to attract another high-pedigree coach to a position that does not offer real autonomy, given Cullen's position as overseer, and also given the preeminence of the national team within the Irish system.
But this is a good time to be going to the market place. Lots of Test quality coaches will be out of contract at the end of the World Cup and lots of them will be happy to take a tracksuit role at a club that enjoys a steady stream of top-quality local talent. Leinster may not be able to match Jacky Lorenzetti's numbers but they will pay well and the new chief executive Shane Nolan who starts his role in November will surely want to land a big fish.

One frustration for supporters is the lack of clarity over the whys and wherefores of Lancaster leaving. Largely, this has been caused by the stark difference between the way that French and Irish clubs interact with their respective mainstream media.
I don't think there's any frustration tbh, I think most of us understand that coaches move on, I mean when Stu came on board our coaching team was Leo Cullen, Stu Lancaster, Girve Dempsey, John Fogarty and Richie Murphy of that 5, two remain. Dr Phil came in to replace Girve and in turn he has moved on to be replaced by Andrew Goodman, John Fogarty moved on to be replaced by Robin McBryde, Richie Murphy moved on to be replaced by Emmet Farrell and we picked up Denis Leamy as a contact skills coach who has also moved on to be replaced by Sean O'Brien.

there is nothing in there to suggest to a fan that Stu Lancaster would be staying on forever - in fact he's in what his 7th season now which seems a lot longer than most have.

The problem with the information gap is that it leaves players and fans guessing the reasons for Lancaster's departure. Has it anything to do with the fact that Leinster went without a trophy last season, for the first time in five years? Have Leinster been slow to react to news of Racing's interest, which was first reported in France as far back as July?

I don't think anyone is actually guessing the reason for Lancaster's departure - it's probably four or five reasons. Where he is in his family life with the kids now in college, a chance to live in Paris which is a great city, probably a pretty big cheque book to sign players and a chance to try to implement his vision on a team of galactic. You then have to factor in the dumptruck full of cash they also reversed up and emptied onto his driveway.

But this is a good time to be going to the market place. Lots of Test quality coaches will be out of contract at the end of the World Cup and lots of them will be happy to take a tracksuit role at a club that enjoys a steady stream of top-quality local talent.

if the past is anything to go by Leinster Rugby will most likely be looking at a good quality assistant coach who is looking to develop their career in one of the best shop windows in European or world rugby.

[blockhead]

From an English paper of note

Timing kind to attract Lancaster's successor

If the Leinster coach does leave then there are candidates out there to take over
Another season back at the RDS and this time with added attractions for Leinster fans. Before Friday night's victory over Benetton, season ticket holders got to hear the thoughts of Johnny Sexton, James Lowe and Tadhg Furlong in the impressive new fan zone at the Simmonscourt Road end. On the pitch, the excellence of new signing Jason Jenkins was overshadowed only by Dan Sheehan's four-try blitz.
Yet these were mere distractions from the main talking point of the week the departure to Racing 92 of Stuart Lancaster, who sat as usual with his colleagues in the Leinster coaches' box, albeit at a polite distance.
One frustration for supporters is the lack of clarity over the whys and wherefores of Lancaster leaving. Largely, this has been caused by the stark difference between the way that French and Irish clubs interact with their respective mainstream media.
In France, the relationship can seem remarkably free and easy, as information is leaked well in advance of official statements. The rationale is that by keeping media colleagues in the know, you ensure generous coverage and therefore sell more tickets. The ensuing good will means that the media will occasionally turn blind eyes to an unsavoury story. So the theory goes, anyway.
Hence the story of Lancaster signing a four-year deal being reported as fact in France, even though Leinster are saying that they haven't yet received definitive word from him. This, they say, is why they have not issued a statement beyond Leo Cullen's comments on Wednesday, when he dismissed press reports as "speculation".
The problem with the information gap is that it leaves players and fans guessing the reasons for Lancaster's departure. Has it anything to do with the fact that Leinster went without a trophy last season, for the first time in five years? Have Leinster been slow to react to news of Racing's interest, which was first reported in France as far back as July? This is a Leinster appointment, so the IRFU can't be blamed for any heel-dragging.
Our understanding is that Leinster haven't made any counter-offer, even though Lancaster is already in the final year of his deal. This makes it sound like they are unwilling to compete with a Top 14-sized contract. They may also have decided that after seven seasons, they will need a fresh voice.
If this feels like an awkward split, maybe it's worth remembering that it was an unconventional hook-up in the first place, largely brokered by a player Sexton who had just returned from the same Racing 92.
By sacking Matt O'Connor towards the end of the 2014/15 season without a ready-made successor, one of Europe's top clubs found themselves with a caretaker coach in Cullen, who had only recently retired.
It was through an unlikely set of coincidences that Lancaster ended up commuting to Dublin from Leeds, initially as defence coach. He has ended up in an unusual position
the dominant figure when it comes to team preparation, yet subordinate to Cullen, who carries the title of head coach while doing more of a directorof-rugby role.
There is some speculation that Leinster will struggle to attract another high-pedigree coach to a position that does not offer real autonomy, given Cullen's position as overseer, and also given the preeminence of the national team within the Irish system.
But this is a good time to be going to the market place. Lots of Test quality coaches will be out of contract at the end of the World Cup and lots of them will be happy to take a tracksuit role at a club that enjoys a steady stream of top-quality local talent. Leinster may not be able to match Jacky Lorenzetti's numbers but they will pay well and the new chief executive Shane Nolan who starts his role in November will surely want to land a big fish.

Who wrote that and where is it from?

POR in ST