Leinster Squad 22-23

[Serb]

There’s no way we would retain Vakh as another NIQ tighthead prop, he has to be on his way out. Wouldn’t surprise me really as he hasn’t really kicked on to the level we would expect at this point, I know hampered by injury quite a bit but still.

Well done to him all the same, big honour being capped internationally, hope he goes well.

[ronk]

The NIQ rules lapsed some time ago. It's flexible (in both directions).

Abdaladze doesn't affect the ability of Leinster to develop Irish players. So a negative response doesn't sent that signal. Instead it sends a signal that discourages players with tier 2 eligibility from coming here and makes enemies in tier 2 unions.

[hugonaut]

The NIQ rules lapsed some time ago. It's flexible (in both directions).

Abdaladze doesn't affect the ability of Leinster to develop Irish players. So a negative response doesn't sent that signal. Instead it sends a signal that discourages players with tier 2 eligibility from coming here and makes enemies in tier 2 unions.

Yes, we went back to "an Irish solution to an Irish problem", i.e. pragmatism and Nucifora dealing with issues on a case-by-case basis a number of years ago. See for example Ulster signing Rory Sutherland recently, which brings up their NIQ/NIE contracts to four [Carter, Toomaga-Allen, Vermeulen, Sutherland].

Vakh is an unusual circumstance, seeing as he was born in Georgia to Georgian parents but has lived here since he was six [i.e. for 20 years] and represented Ireland U20s.

I don't think that there is any chance that Leinster wouldn't be allowed to contract him, or told that they would be precluded from signing another foreign player on the basis that Vakh has been called up by Georgia. I think everybody would agree that that'd be unfair on the player and quite backward from a basic social viewpoint. Sport plays a very big part in successfully integrating newcomers to the country, and it should. Vakh spent three years in the sub-academy on zero money and battled his way back from a career-threatening back injury ... he has got to where he has the hard way. He's a success story.

[blockhead]

Jackman on the The42 Rugby Weekly Extra says Mckee must move to Munster.

“I think McKee should be going to Munster. Munster need a hooker badly and I don’t think they’re going to be allowed to get a foreign player next year.

“Leinster will obviously want to keep him but I think he’s good enough to be getting more regular game time in a province and maybe good enough to be a first-choice player. He has a different profile to what Munster have at the moment.

“He’s excellent, he’s really good. He’s an Ulsterman but Ulster don’t need him at the moment, you look at the depth they have at hooker.

“I don’t think Munster would be able to get Sheehan or Kelleher, it’s going to be hard to get one of those down, but I think McKee would be someone who starts for Munster and makes them better.”

I think Sheehan & Kelleher already told Munster to sling der hook when they came a sniffin. Hopefully McKee does the same.

[naraic]

Jackman on the The42 Rugby Weekly Extra says Mckee must move to Munster.

“I think McKee should be going to Munster. Munster need a hooker badly and I don’t think they’re going to be allowed to get a foreign player next year.

“Leinster will obviously want to keep him but I think he’s good enough to be getting more regular game time in a province and maybe good enough to be a first-choice player. He has a different profile to what Munster have at the moment.

“He’s excellent, he’s really good. He’s an Ulsterman but Ulster don’t need him at the moment, you look at the depth they have at hooker.

“I don’t think Munster would be able to get Sheehan or Kelleher, it’s going to be hard to get one of those down, but I think McKee would be someone who starts for Munster and makes them better.”

I think Sheehan & Kelleher already told Munster to sling der hook when they came a sniffin. Hopefully McKee does the same.

Jackman is certainly right that Munster need a hooker. They have none in their academy and 3 of their "senior" hookers are 24 or younger so they are reliant on a signing or players coming good.

I'd certainly be placing an offer if any of 5 Leinster hookers become available if I was in charge of Munster recruitment.

That said I dont think they want another very young Hooker.

Yes, we went back to "an Irish solution to an Irish problem", i.e. pragmatism and Nucifora dealing with issues on a case-by-case basis a number of years ago. See for example Ulster signing Rory Sutherland recently, which brings up their NIQ/NIE contracts to four [Carter, Toomaga-Allen, Vermeulen, Sutherland].

Vakh is an unusual circumstance, seeing as he was born in Georgia to Georgian parents but has lived here since he was six [i.e. for 20 years] and represented Ireland U20s.

I don't think that there is any chance that Leinster wouldn't be allowed to contract him, or told that they would be precluded from signing another foreign player on the basis that Vakh has been called up by Georgia. I think everybody would agree that that'd be unfair on the player and quite backward from a basic social viewpoint. Sport plays a very big part in successfully integrating newcomers to the country, and it should. Vakh spent three years in the sub-academy on zero money and battled his way back from a career-threatening back injury ... he has got to where he has the hard way. He's a success story.

Do we really think that Vakh signing a new contract with Leinster would be in Leinsters best interest even if he was IQ. I'm not sure but to me 26 year old 4th choice tight head prop is a player you move on. That was Munster's problem for a long time. Clubmen stayed in depth spots blocked young talent.

That said if big Mike is gone neither Vakh or Clarkson are imo suitable at the moment be 2nd choice tighthead atm. I think Clarkson could be in a couple of years.

That would mean that there would need to be a signing. Theres no way in hell that the IRFU would support Leinster having a 2nd and 4th choice NIE tighthead.

[blockhead]

Jackman is certainly right that Munster need a hooker. They have none in their academy and 3 of their "senior" hookers are 24 or younger so they are reliant on a signing or players coming good.

We have 3 of our hookers under 24 or younger too.
Mansion might like a few years down in Mordor. They have big houses down their as well.

[FLIP]

Jackman is certainly right that Munster need a hooker. They have none in their academy and 3 of their "senior" hookers are 24 or younger so they are reliant on a signing or players coming good.

We have 3 of our hookers under 24 or younger too.
Mansion might like a few years down in Mordor. They have big houses down their as well.

Will his wife want to live down amongst the bogs and turnip fields though?

[Oldschoolsocks]

Jackman is certainly right that Munster need a hooker. They have none in their academy and 3 of their "senior" hookers are 24 or younger so they are reliant on a signing or players coming good.

We have 3 of our hookers under 24 or younger too.
Mansion might like a few years down in Mordor. They have big houses down their as well.

they've given that man so much abuse down there for being capped before Scannell, the entire place would go into meltdown.

PLUS given that they're booing refs off the pitch now I'm not sure any player would want to go down there

[ronk]

Getting a media campaign to sign for Munster is a rite of passage for rising Leinster players who weren't already tapped up coming out of school.

Congrats John, this is how the rugby media/public recognise that you've made it. Don't actually move though, that's obviously a bad idea.

[blockhead]

Getting a media campaign to sign for Munster is a rite of passage for rising Leinster players who weren't already tapped up coming out of school.

Congrats John, this is how the rugby media/public recognise that you've made it. Don't actually move though, that's obviously a bad idea.

Brilliant

[Ruckedtobits]

Jackman on the The42 Rugby Weekly Extra says Mckee must move to Munster.

“I think McKee should be going to Munster. Munster need a hooker badly and I don’t think they’re going to be allowed to get a foreign player next year.

“Leinster will obviously want to keep him but I think he’s good enough to be getting more regular game time in a province and maybe good enough to be a first-choice player. He has a different profile to what Munster have at the moment.

“He’s excellent, he’s really good. He’s an Ulsterman but Ulster don’t need him at the moment, you look at the depth they have at hooker.

“I don’t think Munster would be able to get Sheehan or Kelleher, it’s going to be hard to get one of those down, but I think McKee would be someone who starts for Munster and makes them better.”

I think Sheehan & Kelleher already told Munster to sling der hook when they came a sniffin. Hopefully McKee does the same.

Unless McKee, right now, considers he is better than Sheehan or Kelleher, he should stay exactly where he is and take the benefit of their National absences to get game time and top class development and exposure among a group of players who will carry Leinster through URC & Heineken campaigns. His competition will be Tracy who is returning from injury but no longer on an upward curve.

In Leinster, McKee will have a strong front five and excellent line-out operations to serve his career advancement. In Munster he would have a decent line-out to serve but not so much a strong front-five.

Hookers are rated from line-out throwing, scrumming & maul work and, increasingly, broken field carrying. McKee and his agent, can easily figure out where he can best get opportunities to demonstrate these skills.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

It’s a terrible suggestion, he’s barely played for us and we have had a plan for his development ever since we agreed with him that he’s a hooker and not a prop, who knows if he’d even still be playing if that hadn’t happened? Have we not learned lessons from moving players out of a great environment just for the sake of game time?

In time it could be an option for sure but he’ll get so many games with the Ireland lads being away or even just Kelleher’s injury record. He could move to Munster and they might not even be in the champions cup next season FFS.

[naraic]

The key question for McKee when assessing his future is Tracey. Is he ahead or does he have a reasonable chance of getting ahead of Tracey.

There's a big difference between being 3rd choice and 4th choice for Leinster imo.

Tracey leaving might make more sense. Or Munster might sign McElroy when his short term deal with Leinster is over.

[riocard911]

The key question for McKee when assessing his future is Tracey. Is he ahead or does he have a reasonable chance of getting ahead of Tracey.

There's a big difference between being 3rd choice and 4th choice for Leinster imo.

Tracey leaving might make more sense. Or Munster might sign McElroy when his short term deal with Leinster is over.

IMO our Nordie/Campbell recruit has more than a reasonable chance of overtaking Tracey, what with youth being on his side. Good suggestion re McIlroy. After Leinster getting his professional career going again, he could be a perfect fit for Munster.

[cormac]

Larmour has another 3-4 weeks of recovery from the injury he picked up against the Sharks according to an article on 42.ie

[cormac]

Wonder what Leinster will do with Jenkins for our game v Glasgow on the 26th. South Africa are playing England that day but it’s outside the international window.

[paddyor]

Wonder what Leinster will do with Jenkins for our game v Glasgow on the 26th. South Africa are playing England that day but it’s outside the international window.

We'll likely need him too

[ronk]

Wonder what Leinster will do with Jenkins for our game v Glasgow on the 26th. South Africa are playing England that day but it’s outside the international window.

We'll likely need him too

Not as much as he needs a cap. He doubled up playing Super Rugby and in Japan to help break in. We could hold those rules over him, but all it would do is guarantee that his next contract is for a SA team.

It wouldn’t be worth it to us.

[Ruckedtobits]

Wonder what Leinster will do with Jenkins for our game v Glasgow on the 26th. South Africa are playing England that day but it’s outside the international window.

We'll likely need him too

Not as much as he needs a cap. He doubled up playing Super Rugby and in Japan to help break in. We could hold those rules over him, but all it would do is guarantee that his next contract is for a SA team.

It wouldn’t be worth it to us.

I very much doubt we'll block him in any way. He's what we need, but particularly when the season gets tasty. Selecting a player who doesn't want to be there is sheer folly. We want to select a player who's competing for a World Cup slot and will only get it if he's playing well.

[blaker]

Interesting that JGP is fit enough to play for Ireland this week