Comerford is gone already. Andrew Smith played for the Leinster side vs Chile in November, he's a slightly different scenario.Morf wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 5:14 amIs it just a matter of time before Comerford and Smith are released from the academy?mildlyinterested wrote: ↑January 16th, 2023, 2:24 pm IRELAND MEN’S SEVENS Squad (HSBC New Zealand Sevens, FMG Stadium Waikato, January 21-22, 2023):
Niall Comerford (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers RFC)
Billy Dardis (Terenure College)(capt)
William Goddard (IQ Rugby)
Ed Kelly (Dublin University FC)
Jack Kelly (Dublin University FC)
Terry Kennedy (St Mary’s College)
Liam McNamara (IQ Rugby)
Harry McNulty (UCD RFC)
Bryan Mollen (UCD RFC)
Chay Mullins (Connacht/IQ Rugby)
Aaron O’Sullivan (UCD RFC)
Mark Roche (Lansdowne FC)
Andrew Smith (Clontarf FC/Leinster)
It feels like an accounting trick to have them there when the focus seems to be on 7s and haven't seemed near a Leinster or even A squad in a couple of years.
Leinster Academy 22-23
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
I'd say Smith will go down the full-time 7's route.
Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
I hope I'm wrong Hugo and fair enough for calling me on an inaccurate generalisation.
It irks me when 7s is talked about as a route to 15s when it seems it has more often been the route out of 15s for academy players to either only play 7s or leave the academy with little impact in Leinster XV squads.
It irks me when 7s is talked about as a route to 15s when it seems it has more often been the route out of 15s for academy players to either only play 7s or leave the academy with little impact in Leinster XV squads.
Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
Thought Comerford had already been released? He's not in the list of academy players on the Leinster website.
Look out Itchy, he's Irish
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
Some players use 7's to develop and come back to 15s: JOB, Keenan, Turner.Morf wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 9:02 am I hope I'm wrong Hugo and fair enough for calling me on an inaccurate generalisation.
It irks me when 7s is talked about as a route to 15s when it seems it has more often been the route out of 15s for academy players to either only play 7s or leave the academy with little impact in Leinster XV squads.
Others are more suited to 7's and don't come back: Dardis, Kelly, Comerford.
Last edited by mildlyinterested on January 17th, 2023, 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
It might come sooner than you think — I don't think Comerford is in our academy anymore.
Smith is still in there, but he hasn't featured in a game for us since March 2021. Smith started against Connacht two years ago in Jan 2021, and featured off the bench against Ospreys in March. We lost both those games at home in two of our worst performances of that season.
Edit: I missed an entire page of replies
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
Given the back three players being added this season and coming out of school, there is going to be pressure on.
Sub Academy
Hugh Cooney(U20/Blackrock/Clontarf)
Andrew Osborne(U20/Naas/Naas)
Henry McElrean(U20/St. Michaels/Terenure)
James Nicholson(U20/St. Michaels/UCD)
David Colbert(U19/Gonzaga/DUFC)
Ruben Moloney(U19/Blackrock/UCD)
Coming out of school this year:
Jules Fenelon(U19/St. Michaels)
Hugo McLaughlin(U19/Gonzaga)
Finn Treacy(U19/Pres Bray)
Paidi Farrell(U18/Tullamore RFC)
Sub Academy
Hugh Cooney(U20/Blackrock/Clontarf)
Andrew Osborne(U20/Naas/Naas)
Henry McElrean(U20/St. Michaels/Terenure)
James Nicholson(U20/St. Michaels/UCD)
David Colbert(U19/Gonzaga/DUFC)
Ruben Moloney(U19/Blackrock/UCD)
Coming out of school this year:
Jules Fenelon(U19/St. Michaels)
Hugo McLaughlin(U19/Gonzaga)
Finn Treacy(U19/Pres Bray)
Paidi Farrell(U18/Tullamore RFC)
Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
Any idea who the top picks of that bunch might be? I think back three definitely feels like an area where we lack real talent coming through.
Max O'Reilly has had some decent outings, Russell is having a bit of a break out season this season with 7 tries in 6 starts, but I'm not sure how good that pair really are, and they are probably the best of what we've got (obviously this is based off a handful of games at best).
I guess it's interesting that we also have the least amount of back three players on the books of all the provinces, and that includes Tommy O'Brien who has been injured all season. We've had to field Turner at wing at times this season (vs Connacht).
Max O'Reilly has had some decent outings, Russell is having a bit of a break out season this season with 7 tries in 6 starts, but I'm not sure how good that pair really are, and they are probably the best of what we've got (obviously this is based off a handful of games at best).
I guess it's interesting that we also have the least amount of back three players on the books of all the provinces, and that includes Tommy O'Brien who has been injured all season. We've had to field Turner at wing at times this season (vs Connacht).
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
Osborne and McElrean are real attacking talents, i'd expect both to make academy and impress for the 20s. Cooney too.Serb wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 2:13 pm Any idea who the top picks of that bunch might be? I think back three definitely feels like an area where we lack real talent coming through.
Max O'Reilly has had some decent outings, Russell is having a bit of a break out season this season with 7 tries in 6 starts, but I'm not sure how good that pair really are, and they are probably the best of what we've got (obviously this is based off a handful of games at best).
I guess it's interesting that we also have the least amount of back three players on the books of all the provinces, and that includes Tommy O'Brien who has been injured all season. We've had to field Turner at wing at times this season (vs Connacht).
McElrean starts this break: https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1 ... F5Z8qxOCFg
Moloney has had injury issues this season but he could be someone to watch next year for the 20s as a power winger. Moloney: https://twitter.com/GifsLeinster/status ... F5Z8qxOCFg
McLaughlin was electric last year in schools rugby and is certainly one to watch. McLaughlin: https://twitter.com/GifsLeinster/status ... F5Z8qxOCFg
Farrell is very young but was electric for the irish u18 clubs side. Farrell: https://twitter.com/GifsLeinster/status ... F5Z8qxOCFg
Lots of talent there, the most in years IMO, without mentioning Colbert and Fenelon who both missed last seasons SCT due to injury.
Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
What about Cosgrove?, better than Max no?Serb wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 2:13 pm Any idea who the top picks of that bunch might be? I think back three definitely feels like an area where we lack real talent coming through.
Max O'Reilly has had some decent outings, Russell is having a bit of a break out season this season with 7 tries in 6 starts, but I'm not sure how good that pair really are, and they are probably the best of what we've got (obviously this is based off a handful of games at best).
I guess it's interesting that we also have the least amount of back three players on the books of all the provinces, and that includes Tommy O'Brien who has been injured all season. We've had to field Turner at wing at times this season (vs Connacht).
Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
7s has two important roles.Morf wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 9:02 am I hope I'm wrong Hugo and fair enough for calling me on an inaccurate generalisation.
It irks me when 7s is talked about as a route to 15s when it seems it has more often been the route out of 15s for academy players to either only play 7s or leave the academy with little impact in Leinster XV squads.
1. Development to an extent.
2. Its a backup career for players who don't make it as a professional xvs player.
Theres 180 ish professional non academy contracts in the provinces and an additional 20 sevens contracts.
If a player doesn't make it as a professional rugby player its a nice back up plan.
Comerford is gone. He left the academy at the end of his second year and took a sevens contract. He now has 55 caps as a sevens player.
- brotheroffrank
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
he was certainly a different scenario in that Match anyhow...had a shocker that day...hopefully got a years worth of handling mistakes out of his system...could be great on the 7's circuit if he cuts out the errors shown that day...hugonaut wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 6:49 amComerford is gone already. Andrew Smith played for the Leinster side vs Chile in November, he's a slightly different scenario.Morf wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 5:14 amIs it just a matter of time before Comerford and Smith are released from the academy?mildlyinterested wrote: ↑January 16th, 2023, 2:24 pm IRELAND MEN’S SEVENS Squad (HSBC New Zealand Sevens, FMG Stadium Waikato, January 21-22, 2023):
Niall Comerford (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers RFC)
Billy Dardis (Terenure College)(capt)
William Goddard (IQ Rugby)
Ed Kelly (Dublin University FC)
Jack Kelly (Dublin University FC)
Terry Kennedy (St Mary’s College)
Liam McNamara (IQ Rugby)
Harry McNulty (UCD RFC)
Bryan Mollen (UCD RFC)
Chay Mullins (Connacht/IQ Rugby)
Aaron O’Sullivan (UCD RFC)
Mark Roche (Lansdowne FC)
Andrew Smith (Clontarf FC/Leinster)
It feels like an accounting trick to have them there when the focus seems to be on 7s and haven't seemed near a Leinster or even A squad in a couple of years.
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
Ireland U20s Squad
Prop
George Morris (Gonzaga/Lansdowne/Leinster)
George Hadden (Gorey RFC/Clontarf/Leinster)
Ronan Foxe (Tullamore RFC/Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Fiachna Barrett (Corinthians/Connacht)
Paddy McCarthy (Blackrock/DUFC/Leinster)
Hooker
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock/UCD/Leinster)(captain)
Conall Henchy (DUFC/Munster)
Danny Sheahan (UCC/Munster)
Lock
Conor O’Tighearnaigh (St. Michaels/UCD/Leinster)
Charlie Irvine (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Evan O’Connell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Joe Hopes (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Backrow
Jacob Sheahan (UCC/Munster)
Diarmuid Mangan (Newbridge/UCD/Leinster)
Ruadhán Quinn (Old Crescent/Munster)
James McNabney (Ballymena/Ulster)
Brian Gleeson (Garryowen/Munster)
Scrumhalf
Jack Oliver (Garryowen/Munster)
Oscar Cawley (Naas/Naas/Leinster)
Fintan Gunne (St. Michaels/Terenure/Leinster)
Outhalf
Sam Prendergast (Newbridge/Lansdowne/Leinster)
Matthew Lynch (Terenure/DUFC/Leinster)
Harry West (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Centre
Sam Berman (St. Michaels/DUFC/Leinster)
Hugh Gavin (Galwegians/Connacht)
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock/Clontarf/Leinster)
John Devine (Corinthians/Connacht)
Back Three
Ike Anagu (La Rochelle/IQ Rugby)
James Nicholson (St. Michaels/UCD/Leinster)
Rory Telfer (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Henry McErlean (St. Michaels/Terenure/Leinster)
Noah Sheridan (Wicklow RFC/Clontarf/Leinster)
Prop
George Morris (Gonzaga/Lansdowne/Leinster)
George Hadden (Gorey RFC/Clontarf/Leinster)
Ronan Foxe (Tullamore RFC/Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Fiachna Barrett (Corinthians/Connacht)
Paddy McCarthy (Blackrock/DUFC/Leinster)
Hooker
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock/UCD/Leinster)(captain)
Conall Henchy (DUFC/Munster)
Danny Sheahan (UCC/Munster)
Lock
Conor O’Tighearnaigh (St. Michaels/UCD/Leinster)
Charlie Irvine (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Evan O’Connell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Joe Hopes (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Backrow
Jacob Sheahan (UCC/Munster)
Diarmuid Mangan (Newbridge/UCD/Leinster)
Ruadhán Quinn (Old Crescent/Munster)
James McNabney (Ballymena/Ulster)
Brian Gleeson (Garryowen/Munster)
Scrumhalf
Jack Oliver (Garryowen/Munster)
Oscar Cawley (Naas/Naas/Leinster)
Fintan Gunne (St. Michaels/Terenure/Leinster)
Outhalf
Sam Prendergast (Newbridge/Lansdowne/Leinster)
Matthew Lynch (Terenure/DUFC/Leinster)
Harry West (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Centre
Sam Berman (St. Michaels/DUFC/Leinster)
Hugh Gavin (Galwegians/Connacht)
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock/Clontarf/Leinster)
John Devine (Corinthians/Connacht)
Back Three
Ike Anagu (La Rochelle/IQ Rugby)
James Nicholson (St. Michaels/UCD/Leinster)
Rory Telfer (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Henry McErlean (St. Michaels/Terenure/Leinster)
Noah Sheridan (Wicklow RFC/Clontarf/Leinster)
Last edited by mildlyinterested on January 18th, 2023, 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
No Liam Molony or Andrew Osborne due to injury, other than that pretty much everyone made it that you would expect.
Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
This report is GAA focused, but well worth a read on youth development in rugby.
https://killarneyadvertiser.ie/sport/ar ... ng-talent/
Key finding is that coaches and scouts make decisions based on current physical attributes rather than future potential, and so overemphasise bigger, more physically mature players in underage teams and undervalue slower maturing players.
It also makes the point that early maturing players can often develop bad habits at underage level where they're so much further ahead than counterparts. I think we probably see this in rugby in some guys who are incredible at schools level and then find it harder to translate into men's rugby or need to round out their game.
https://killarneyadvertiser.ie/sport/ar ... ng-talent/
Key finding is that coaches and scouts make decisions based on current physical attributes rather than future potential, and so overemphasise bigger, more physically mature players in underage teams and undervalue slower maturing players.
It also makes the point that early maturing players can often develop bad habits at underage level where they're so much further ahead than counterparts. I think we probably see this in rugby in some guys who are incredible at schools level and then find it harder to translate into men's rugby or need to round out their game.
- Flash Gordon
- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
4 players from Ulster. There really should be accountability to the IRFU on that level of production given players numbers up there. It's really really poor.mildlyinterested wrote: ↑January 18th, 2023, 10:43 am Ireland U20s Squad
Prop
George Morris (Gonzaga/Lansdowne/Leinster)
George Hadden (Gorey RFC/Clontarf/Leinster)
Ronan Foxe (Tullamore RFC/Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Fiachna Barrett (Corinthians/Connacht)
Paddy McCarthy (Blackrock/DUFC/Leinster)
Hooker
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock/UCD/Leinster)(captain)
Conall Henchy (DUFC/Munster)
Danny Sheahan (UCC/Munster)
Lock
Conor O’Tighearnaigh (St. Michaels/DUFC/Leinster)
Charlie Irvine (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Evan O’Connell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Joe Hopes (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Backrow
Jacob Sheahan (UCC/Munster)
Diarmuid Mangan (Newbridge/UCD/Leinster)
Ruadhán Quinn (Old Crescent/Munster)
James McNabney (Ballymena/Ulster)
Brian Gleeson (Garryowen/Munster)
Scrumhalf
Jack Oliver (Garryowen/Munster)
Oscar Cawley (Naas/Naas/Leinster)
Fintan Gunne (St. Michaels/Terenure/Leinster)
Outhalf
Sam Prendergast (Newbridge/Lansdowne/Leinster)
Matthew Lynch (Terenure/DUFC/Leinster)
Harry West (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Centre
Sam Berman (St. Michaels/DUFC/Leinster)
Hugh Gavin (Galwegians/Connacht)
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock/Clontarf/Leinster)
John Devine (Corinthians/Connacht)
Back Three
Ike Anagu (La Rochelle/IQ Rugby)
James Nicholson (St. Michaels/UCD/Leinster)
Rory Telfer (Queen’s University/Ulster)
Henry McErlean (St. Michaels/Terenure/Leinster)
Noah Sheridan (Wicklow RFC/Clontarf/Leinster)
Flash ahhhh ahhh, he'll save every one of us
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
Possible Academy next season?
Prop
Jack Boyle (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 3
Temi Lasisi (Enniscorthy RFC/Lansdowne) - Year 3
Rory McGuire (Blackrock College/UCD) - Year 2
Paddy McCarthy (Blackrock/DUFC) - Year 1
Hooker
Lee Barron (St. Michaels/DUFC) - Year 3
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock/UCD) - Year 1
Lock
Conor O'Tighnearnaigh (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 1
Backrow
Diarmuid Mangan (Newbridge/UCD) - Year 2
Liam Molony (Blackrock/DUFC) - Year 1
Scrumhalf
Ben Murphy (Pres Bray/Clontarf) - Year 3
Fintan Gunne (St. Michaels/Terenure) - Year 1
Outhalf
Charlie Tector (Kilkenny/Lansdowne) - Year 2
Sam Prendergast (Newbridge/Lansdowne) - Year 2
Centre
Ben Brownlee (Blackrock/UCD) - Year 2
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock/Clontarf) - Year 1
Back Three
Chris Cosgrave (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 3
Aitzol King (Balbriggan RFC/Clontarf) - Year 2
Henry McErlean (St. Michaels/Terenure) - Year 1
Andrew Osborne (Naas RFC/Naas) - Year 1
Prop
Jack Boyle (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 3
Temi Lasisi (Enniscorthy RFC/Lansdowne) - Year 3
Rory McGuire (Blackrock College/UCD) - Year 2
Paddy McCarthy (Blackrock/DUFC) - Year 1
Hooker
Lee Barron (St. Michaels/DUFC) - Year 3
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock/UCD) - Year 1
Lock
Conor O'Tighnearnaigh (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 1
Backrow
Diarmuid Mangan (Newbridge/UCD) - Year 2
Liam Molony (Blackrock/DUFC) - Year 1
Scrumhalf
Ben Murphy (Pres Bray/Clontarf) - Year 3
Fintan Gunne (St. Michaels/Terenure) - Year 1
Outhalf
Charlie Tector (Kilkenny/Lansdowne) - Year 2
Sam Prendergast (Newbridge/Lansdowne) - Year 2
Centre
Ben Brownlee (Blackrock/UCD) - Year 2
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock/Clontarf) - Year 1
Back Three
Chris Cosgrave (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 3
Aitzol King (Balbriggan RFC/Clontarf) - Year 2
Henry McErlean (St. Michaels/Terenure) - Year 1
Andrew Osborne (Naas RFC/Naas) - Year 1
Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
I think Spicer might go straight into the academy from school. My understanding is that he's in sixth year this year.mildlyinterested wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 8:18 pm Possible Academy next season?
Prop
Jack Boyle (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 3
Temi Lasisi (Enniscorthy RFC/Lansdowne) - Year 3
Rory McGuire (Blackrock College/UCD) - Year 2
Paddy McCarthy (Blackrock/DUFC) - Year 1
Hooker
Lee Barron (St. Michaels/DUFC) - Year 3
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock/UCD) - Year 1
Lock
Conor O'Tighnearnaigh (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 1
Backrow
Diarmuid Mangan (Newbridge/UCD) - Year 2
Liam Molony (Blackrock/DUFC) - Year 1
Scrumhalf
Ben Murphy (Pres Bray/Clontarf) - Year 3
Fintan Gunne (St. Michaels/Terenure) - Year 1
Outhalf
Charlie Tector (Kilkenny/Lansdowne) - Year 2
Sam Prendergast (Newbridge/Lansdowne) - Year 2
Centre
Ben Brownlee (Blackrock/UCD) - Year 2
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock/Clontarf) - Year 1
Back Three
Chris Cosgrave (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 3
Aitzol King (Balbriggan RFC/Clontarf) - Year 2
Henry McErlean (St. Michaels/Terenure) - Year 1
Andrew Osborne (Naas RFC/Naas) - Year 1
It's rare but it still happens occasionally; I think Sam Prendergast did it. Spicer is obviously going to be a pro second row at that size, seems like a waste of time checking his bona fides in the sub academy.
Ryan Baird played in the Senior Cup in Feb 2018 [2017-18 season] and debuted for Leinster 14 months later in April 2019 [2018-19 season]. Obviously 2019 was his U20 year, so he was U19 in his final year in school, but it's the same route from school straight into academy.
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- Leo Cullen
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Re: Leinster Academy 22-23
Prendergast didnt do it.hugonaut wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 10:25 pmI think Spicer might go straight into the academy from school. My understanding is that he's in sixth year this year.mildlyinterested wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 8:18 pm Possible Academy next season?
Prop
Jack Boyle (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 3
Temi Lasisi (Enniscorthy RFC/Lansdowne) - Year 3
Rory McGuire (Blackrock College/UCD) - Year 2
Paddy McCarthy (Blackrock/DUFC) - Year 1
Hooker
Lee Barron (St. Michaels/DUFC) - Year 3
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock/UCD) - Year 1
Lock
Conor O'Tighnearnaigh (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 1
Backrow
Diarmuid Mangan (Newbridge/UCD) - Year 2
Liam Molony (Blackrock/DUFC) - Year 1
Scrumhalf
Ben Murphy (Pres Bray/Clontarf) - Year 3
Fintan Gunne (St. Michaels/Terenure) - Year 1
Outhalf
Charlie Tector (Kilkenny/Lansdowne) - Year 2
Sam Prendergast (Newbridge/Lansdowne) - Year 2
Centre
Ben Brownlee (Blackrock/UCD) - Year 2
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock/Clontarf) - Year 1
Back Three
Chris Cosgrave (St. Michaels/UCD) - Year 3
Aitzol King (Balbriggan RFC/Clontarf) - Year 2
Henry McErlean (St. Michaels/Terenure) - Year 1
Andrew Osborne (Naas RFC/Naas) - Year 1
It's rare but it still happens occasionally; I think Sam Prendergast did it. Spicer is obviously going to be a pro second row at that size, seems like a waste of time checking his bona fides in the sub academy.
Ryan Baird played in the Senior Cup in Feb 2018 [2017-18 season] and debuted for Leinster 14 months later in April 2019 [2018-19 season]. Obviously 2019 was his U20 year, so he was U19 in his final year in school, but it's the same route from school straight into academy.
Id be surprised if he did, but not shocked as he is obviously going to join at some stage but given he is only turns 18 this year they may not want to rush him.