Leinster v Bulls Friday RDS 19:35 TG4

[Oldschoolsocks]

Luke Mcgrath hasn’t adapted well to eithe
1)the new game plan
B)becoming No. 2
iii)passing the ball from the base of a ruck
A bit nervous of him being the guy to come on and close out/win a game.

Suggested edit above in red

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don’t feel like we were blown away at all. Definitely a more physical game than we’re used to but we’d ample chance to score and fluffed it in the corner. Granted we were rebuffed 2-3 minutes in but I thought that was just dumb.

There first try was a lucky bounce. Second was a lovely sleight of hand. We did actually force them back several times on the goal line particularly in the start of the second half. Almost rucked them off their own ball under the posts.

Felt like we started chasing the game after they went 17-10 up.

Power certainly wasn’t the only reason but I think you’re massively underpaying it there. First try wasn’t just a lucky bounce, they had us under the pump and we couldn’t stop them. The tap penalty wasn’t just about deception, it was about us knowing that they had us physically so we overcommitted to the pod which opened up the space in the first place. They also had the knock on over the line. We might have driven them back a few times but the vast majority of collisions were either lost or neutral, we just couldn’t halt their momentum enough.

Against La Rochelle I thought we did do just about enough up front to win the game but the backs were terrible, didn’t feel that way tonight though.

[Laighin Break]

Also to whoever said our pack was 30kg lighter, they must be an automated forum trolling bot.

That was me questioning Wixfjord saying that the Bulls pack was 30kg lighter as I thought it was the other way around. How is that trolling?

[riocard911]

We have to be able to dig out wins, when things aren't going our way, we haven't got our flow going etc. Blowing weaker teams away before half time is no prep for k.o. matches in the URC or the Heino - be it home or away. Competing against the Saffers in our league will make us better long term vs English and French opposition. Tonight we were taught a lesson. Hopefully we'll learn from it.

[paddyor]

I don’t feel like we were blown away at all. Definitely a more physical game than we’re used to but we’d ample chance to score and fluffed it in the corner. Granted we were rebuffed 2-3 minutes in but I thought that was just dumb.

There first try was a lucky bounce. Second was a lovely sleight of hand. We did actually force them back several times on the goal line particularly in the start of the second half. Almost rucked them off their own ball under the posts.

Felt like we started chasing the game after they went 17-10 up.

Blown away might be the wrong word, but theres been a definite and obvious trend to how we have lost since 2018.

If we aren't honest with ourselves and tackle it head on, we'll just end up like Munster and convince ourselves we are just the bounce of a ball away from the big win etc etc.

Yes, and that trend is the set piece. If you can keep us to 80% in the lineout and mess up our ball even when we keep it you’re in a good position. It was part of how Cardiff beat us earlier in the season.

If you’ve the heart to watch it back, check the bulls lineout. Lots of movement and footwork to hide the call. We were static by comparison.

[paddyor]

We have to be able to dig out wins, when things aren't going our way, we haven't got our flow going etc. Blowing weaker teams away before half time is no prep for k.o. matches in the URC or the Heino - be it home or away. Competing against the Saffers in our league will make us better long term vs English and French opposition. Tonight we were taught a lesson. Hopefully we'll learn from it.

This is another thing. Don’t think we’ve ever been behind for as long in a match and didn’t react well at all.

[ronk]

Also to whoever said our pack was 30kg lighter, they must be an automated forum trolling bot.

That was me questioning Wixfjord saying that the Bulls pack was 30kg lighter as I thought it was the other way around. How is that trolling?

Forum is fast moving after a game. Pretty sure people just misunderstood each other.

[paddyor]

I don’t feel like we were blown away at all. Definitely a more physical game than we’re used to but we’d ample chance to score and fluffed it in the corner. Granted we were rebuffed 2-3 minutes in but I thought that was just dumb.

There first try was a lucky bounce. Second was a lovely sleight of hand. We did actually force them back several times on the goal line particularly in the start of the second half. Almost rucked them off their own ball under the posts.

Felt like we started chasing the game after they went 17-10 up.

Power certainly wasn’t the only reason but I think you’re massively underpaying it there. First try wasn’t just a lucky bounce, they had us under the pump and we couldn’t stop them. The tap penalty wasn’t just about deception, it was about us knowing that they had us physically so we overcommitted to the pod which opened up the space in the first place. They also had the knock on over the line. We might have driven them back a few times but the vast majority of collisions were either lost or neutral, we just couldn’t halt their momentum enough.

Against La Rochelle I thought we did do just about enough up front to win the game but the backs were terrible, didn’t feel that way tonight though.

It was a lucky bounce and cute from the SH. He went in almost unopposed. That’s fair on the 2nd try though. We stopped them on the gainline more often than not. Sure they’re a big physical side and they made yards and put us under the pump at times but we did don’t get “blown away by Powah”.

And if your(and not aiming this at you) solution is more powah then we don’t really have a solution do we?

We had ample field position and possession to score but got stuffed at the lineout. Even leaving aside the locks to the corner, we never seemed to get clean ball. Cardiff aren’t more powerful than us and they tripped us up the same way.

[Ruckedtobits]

In knock-out rugby in most competitions you have to pose problems or at least questions of the opposition. Even including the NZ teams, it is rarely enough to just play your normal style, you must surprise or un-nerve your opponents.

Listening to Jake White being interviewed / questioned on Premier Sports coverage, he was very frank about their desire to pressure Leinster, particularly at breakdown and at the front of line-outs. He was also very clear that they tried to avoid giving us line-outs and then trying to impose their physicality on us in carries & tackles.

Our fundamental game is based on trying to put players into space and constantly trying to maintain tempo in possession. Both of those objectives are the antithesis of trying to impose our physicality on teams. Accordingly we don't see it as a strength, nor do we practice it. We can't practice for it either because we just don't have physical specimens who can impose physicality on our starting XV in training.

For many Leinster fans, it appears that the concept of physicality as an asset is just alien, almost illegal. Unfortunately it remains a vital component of winning many games of rugby, often for teams that are less skillful. As a Club, this season should teach us that we must improve our physicality, possibly through the introduction of players like Jenkins, but also by a different form of preparation of players like Porter, Furlong, Kelleher, Sheehan, Ryan and Doris. JVdF has shown that real improvement in particular aspects is both possible and very valuable. Others may have to be pointed in the right direction.

It may sound like heresy but Porter, Furlong and Ryan, as the most notable examples, may have to work extra hard on their physicality in attack and defence even if it means they reduce the time spent on their ball skills. Physicality isn't purely a matter of size, it's also a function of how you apply the body-weight you have. Robbie Henshaw has physicality in every game he plays. Not every Leinster player exhibits the same traits.

[hugonaut]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the team and management for the journey they've taken us on this season. There have been lots of great and elevating moments for us to to enjoy thanks to them all.

100%. Always tempting to be too high when we're up and too low when we're down. This has been a really enjoyable season with a kick-in-the-balls loss in the European Cup final, and a surprising and humbling home semi-final loss in the league.

We're not as good as some [including me] thought we were, but I'm a big fan of the rugby we played this season and have a lot of belief in the players and coaching staff. We need to add a couple of extra pieces to our game - a bigger jackal threat, a bit more of an abrasive edge – but there's a hell of a lot of pieces in place.

The average age of that pack out there was under 26; the median age was 25.5 We've got three international forwards to come back into the mix in Kelleher [24], Connors [26] and Baird [22]. Jenkins [26] is going to be a useful player for us. Joe McCarthy [21] is already a player and is only going to get better. I think having SOB in the set-up will bring a lot of fire to that pack and light some fuses as well ... looking forward to having him back involved.

[nc6000]

We make some really strange decisions in big games. Why the f%~k were we chasing tries via a malfunctioning lineout instead of taking easy points when we were only ten points down with loads of time left? The coaches and the leaders in the team messed that up big time. I actually think the players were so riled up that they wanted to put the Bulls in their place and lost sight of the job at hand.

I found it a strange choice to go to the corner when Ryan was in the bin - we should have kicked that penalty.

[ronk]

In knock-out rugby in most competitions you have to pose problems or at least questions of the opposition. Even including the NZ teams, it is rarely enough to just play your normal style, you must surprise or un-nerve your opponents.

Listening to Jake White being interviewed / questioned on Premier Sports coverage, he was very frank about their desire to pressure Leinster, particularly at breakdown and at the front of line-outs. He was also very clear that they tried to avoid giving us line-outs and then trying to impose their physicality on us in carries & tackles.

Our fundamental game is based on trying to put players into space and constantly trying to maintain tempo in possession. Both of those objectives are the antithesis of trying to impose our physicality on teams. Accordingly we don't see it as a strength, nor do we practice it. We can't practice for it either because we just don't have physical specimens who can impose physicality on our starting XV in training.

For many Leinster fans, it appears that the concept of physicality as an asset is just alien, almost illegal. Unfortunately it remains a vital component of winning many games of rugby, often for teams that are less skillful. As a Club, this season should teach us that we must improve our physicality, possibly through the introduction of players like Jenkins, but also by a different form of preparation of players like Porter, Furlong, Kelleher, Sheehan, Ryan and Doris. JVdF has shown that real improvement in particular aspects is both possible and very valuable. Others may have to be pointed in the right direction.

It may sound like heresy but Porter, Furlong and Ryan, as the most notable examples, may have to work extra hard on their physicality in attack and defence even if it means they reduce the time spent on their ball skills. Physicality isn't purely a matter of size, it's also a function of how you apply the body-weight you have. Robbie Henshaw has physicality in every game he plays. Not every Leinster player exhibits the same traits.

Interesting. I’ll think on it but I’m not convinced. The central idea for Leinster is about footwork and contact skills. We make good carries because we are hard to hit solidly. It’s the age old battle between a pass rushing DE/LB and the left tackle. Plant for contact and they go around, stay on your toes and they go through you. Only the best can do both, all the time. We made great headway today in contact when we were doing well, we punched huge holes and left defenders hitting air.

I don’t think we can afford to lose that. We have a system built to isolate defenders 1 on 1 and maybe we didn’t always bring that. I thought we didn’t get Larmour in the right positions to really test the Bulls. Their back 3 players made some really good open field tackles on him, we didn’t setup the mismatches. But they also got away with offsides when retreating through phases. A different ref would have gone through them and they wouldn’t have had an answer.

Ryan has good footwork but doesn’t go through people. McCarthy has brilliant timing to take the ball so flat that footwork isn’t really relevant (it’s still relevant, it’s just always brace because there’s no room to evade). Leinster scored a pick and go try, we can do it. We caused them trouble on the maul but couldn’t set up many because of a misfiring line out. They had a few good mauls when they rolled so much they could have been pinged. But we stopped them dead too.

We’re a team built on developing young talent, that’s how we’ll win if we win. Next season Boyle (really an extra year), McCarthy, Soroka, Penny and Osbourne look like the young players who might bolt. That’s 1/3 of a starting team. If anyone one of them doesn’t make 50 Ireland caps it’ll be bad luck.

[paddyor]

In knock-out rugby in most competitions you have to pose problems or at least questions of the opposition. Even including the NZ teams, it is rarely enough to just play your normal style, you must surprise or un-nerve your opponents.

Listening to Jake White being interviewed / questioned on Premier Sports coverage, he was very frank about their desire to pressure Leinster, particularly at breakdown and at the front of line-outs. He was also very clear that they tried to avoid giving us line-outs and then trying to impose their physicality on us in carries & tackles.

Our fundamental game is based on trying to put players into space and constantly trying to maintain tempo in possession. Both of those objectives are the antithesis of trying to impose our physicality on teams. Accordingly we don't see it as a strength, nor do we practice it. We can't practice for it either because we just don't have physical specimens who can impose physicality on our starting XV in training.

For many Leinster fans, it appears that the concept of physicality as an asset is just alien, almost illegal. Unfortunately it remains a vital component of winning many games of rugby, often for teams that are less skillful. As a Club, this season should teach us that we must improve our physicality, possibly through the introduction of players like Jenkins, but also by a different form of preparation of players like Porter, Furlong, Kelleher, Sheehan, Ryan and Doris. JVdF has shown that real improvement in particular aspects is both possible and very valuable. Others may have to be pointed in the right direction.

It may sound like heresy but Porter, Furlong and Ryan, as the most notable examples, may have to work extra hard on their physicality in attack and defence even if it means they reduce the time spent on their ball skills. Physicality isn't purely a matter of size, it's also a function of how you apply the body-weight you have. Robbie Henshaw has physicality in every game he plays. Not every Leinster player exhibits the same traits.

I don't agree at all with the bolded. More than happy to watch Sheehan drive a guy back 5ms on the line like he did vs Toulouse. More than happy to watch Doris take an inital hit and score on a secondary drive like he did vs Argentina for Ireland. But I do think the focus on handling and lines of running might be hurting on our work in the tight particualrly for Porter, Furlong etc.

[ronk]

Meant to also say that skills let us down. We dropped a lot of balls and failed to find mismatches in defence. It could be said that we did enough in direct contact but failed in skills.

[ronk]

In knock-out rugby in most competitions you have to pose problems or at least questions of the opposition. Even including the NZ teams, it is rarely enough to just play your normal style, you must surprise or un-nerve your opponents.

Listening to Jake White being interviewed / questioned on Premier Sports coverage, he was very frank about their desire to pressure Leinster, particularly at breakdown and at the front of line-outs. He was also very clear that they tried to avoid giving us line-outs and then trying to impose their physicality on us in carries & tackles.

Our fundamental game is based on trying to put players into space and constantly trying to maintain tempo in possession. Both of those objectives are the antithesis of trying to impose our physicality on teams. Accordingly we don't see it as a strength, nor do we practice it. We can't practice for it either because we just don't have physical specimens who can impose physicality on our starting XV in training.

For many Leinster fans, it appears that the concept of physicality as an asset is just alien, almost illegal. Unfortunately it remains a vital component of winning many games of rugby, often for teams that are less skillful. As a Club, this season should teach us that we must improve our physicality, possibly through the introduction of players like Jenkins, but also by a different form of preparation of players like Porter, Furlong, Kelleher, Sheehan, Ryan and Doris. JVdF has shown that real improvement in particular aspects is both possible and very valuable. Others may have to be pointed in the right direction.

It may sound like heresy but Porter, Furlong and Ryan, as the most notable examples, may have to work extra hard on their physicality in attack and defence even if it means they reduce the time spent on their ball skills. Physicality isn't purely a matter of size, it's also a function of how you apply the body-weight you have. Robbie Henshaw has physicality in every game he plays. Not every Leinster player exhibits the same traits.

I don't agree at all with the bolded. More than happy to watch Sheehan drive a guy back 5ms on the line like he did vs Toulouse. More than happy to watch Doris take an inital hit and score on a secondary drive like he did vs Argentina for Ireland. But I do think the focus on handling and lines of running might be hurting on our work in the tight particualrly for Porter, Furlong etc.

I don’t agree. Furlongs ability to run through players isn’t what makes him special. His ability to make a defender respect that he might put them on their arse while being aware of the tip on pass and the pull back option is the difference maker. There are no shortcuts to defend him, you just have to execute correctly all the time.

[sunshiner1]

by paddyor

Luke Mcgrath hasn’t adapted well to eithe
1)the new game plan
B)becoming No. 2

A bit nervous of him being the guy to come on and close out/win a game.

Our inability to produce another scrumhalf to compete with him is a problem. I think next year we need to be more ruthless make a hard sell for Blade or Casey and explain competing with JPG will mean more success and most likely more International experience because right now we have the worst back-up scrumhalf in all the Provinces.

[the spoofer]

Does anyone know why Sean Cronin wasn’t brought on at the death? He deserved the send off.

[artaneboy]

Lack of size or power did not lose us that match. Okay the Bulls were both: big and strong, but we matched them most of the time, and occasionally bested them.

With the one notable exception of the penalty try; which award was a bit harsh, what lost it for us was (irony of irony) technique in non power situations: Line out fumbles, knock ons, isolated runners being turned over.

Yes, we could have done with more size and power ourselves, but also with more dog and aggression in contact. Sexton definitely made a difference to that when he came on. With the exception of the penalty we gifted them to close us out, we dominated the last 30 minutes- even when down a man. I actually loved his, and Porter’s refusal to turn the other cheek in the face of Bulls taunting and attempted intimidation. We raised our intensity, if not our accuracy after those incidents.

Having said it’s not why we lost, we do need to invest in power and size if we are to have a prosaic Plan B. So, either we raise them through the academy, (opportunistic, and not easy), or import them, not cheap or something the IRFU likes, from us anyway. Joe McCarthy played great and matched the Bulls in all physical aspects. So of course, did Furlong, and Porter was good for most of those things too. If we had a Hines beside him for 40, that would have changed things.

Above all, this was a game made for Dan Leavy at open side. He had the package.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hippo]

Above all, this was a game made for Dan Leavy at open side. He had the package.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Marky de Sad of this forum was saying this to me yesterday about the LAR game. Dan has been a huge loss.

This game was won and lost at the lineout, I don't recall us ever being targeted as successfully before. We scored late on with a strike move launched off what seemed like the only clean lineout ball of the night which just shows the value of the Bulls' approach.

The ref gave them huge latitude when retreating from offside positions but as was pointed out above that didn't force us to knock on repeatedly. Much as I love watching this team there is a clear issue when things are going against them and they're behind on the scoreboard.

[Oldschool]

Looking at the distraught looks and upset on the faces of the players last night was sad to see.
Leinster unfortunately hit a dip in form at just the wrong time.
Probably being favourites in everyone's opinion didn't help neither did the win against Glasgow.
We've a young squad basically so these experiences will stand to us in the coming seasons.