Sean O'Brien to retire at the end of the season

[LeinsterLeader]

A true Rugby Legend

https://twitter.com/SeanOBrien1987/stat ... 09/photo/2

[RoboProp]

Best of luck to Seán in all his future endeavours. He always gave his all in Blue, Green, and Red. On his day he was a world beater.

I know Seánie has a few more miles on the clock than Dan, but the number of caps he had for the length of his career isn't that many, and he too worked so hard to overcome so many injuries, it just goes to show how attritional the position of Openside is.

[Degz]

An absolute legend of Leinster. A phenomenal player.

Only Cian and Johnny left, next season, from the '09 winning squad. Makes me feel ancient.

[ronk]

Super super player. A real inspiration who grew the game outside Dublin, in Leinster rugby, in Ireland and for the Lions.

Played hard and fast and gave maximum effort. There were so many good days and he left a lovely message. All the best. Sounds like he has plans.

[riocard911]

Here yiz go - the showreel with lots of wonderful moments/memories:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsVBibU7SsA

Only thing missing, is the dig in the gut he sent Pape to the floor with at RWC2015. The red card was "worth it", IMO, as Seanie, was getting revenge for the disgraceful knee in the back Pape in another game had inflicted on Jamie Heaslip.

[Degz]

Here yiz go - the showreel with lots of wonderful moments/memories:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsVBibU7SsA

Only thing missing, is the dig in the gut he sent Pape to the floor with at RWC2015. The red card was "worth it", IMO, as Seanie, was getting revenge for the disgraceful knee in the back Pape in another game had inflicted on Jamie Heaslip.

He didn't get the red, but was the cited and banned for the RG game in quarter. Given what happened in that, I'd say no, it wasn't worth it.

[Twist]

Here yiz go - the showreel with lots of wonderful moments/memories:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsVBibU7SsA

Only thing missing, is the dig in the gut he sent Pape to the floor with at RWC2015. The red card was "worth it", IMO, as Seanie, was getting revenge for the disgraceful knee in the back Pape in another game had inflicted on Jamie Heaslip.

I thought it was because Pape was grabbing his arse? Where did you read that quote?

But yeah, what a talent. We were blessed to have him. And as was said above, he missed out on a lot of caps due to injury. Hope he’s leaving the game with his body in decent nick

[riocard911]

I apologise, Twist. The misunderstanding is my fault. I was referencing the advertising slogan not SO'B. I remember the mention of arse touching too at the time. I always assumed Seanie was - at least in part - getting one back for his mate, Jamie.

[wixfjord]

Really really good conversation with Seanie and Berch on the42 podcast live from Tullow. Well worth a listen to the full thing if you're a subscriber.

Here's a 10 min free clip -

https://soundcloud.com/user-200743868/r ... ing-career

One of the things I found very interesting is that all of him, Leo and Stu are all in the office each morning before 6AM with the first meeting kicking off at 9AM.

The amount of effort and planning that goes in behind the scenes to making the side the best it can be is incredible.

He also said that Leinster are now actively trying to bring in guys who may not have an orthodox schools background but are athletically gifted.

Some funny stories around Xmas parties and training ground rows too.

Also mentioned how quiet and shy about speaking in a group some of the schools academy guys are and how guys from the youths background tend to talk more. That's very interesting as it's something Lancaster has hinted at too.

[Flash Gordon]

Really really good conversation with Seanie and Berch on the42 podcast live from Tullow. Well worth a listen to the full thing if you're a subscriber.

Here's a 10 min free clip -

https://soundcloud.com/user-200743868/r ... ing-career

One of the things I found very interesting is that all of him, Leo and Stu are all in the office each morning before 6AM with the first meeting kicking off at 9AM.

The amount of effort and planning that goes in behind the scenes to making the side the best it can be is incredible.

He also said that Leinster are now actively trying to bring in guys who may not have an orthodox schools background but are athletically gifted.

Some funny stories around Xmas parties and training ground rows too.

Also mentioned how quiet and shy about speaking in a group some of the schools academy guys are and how guys from the youths background tend to talk more. That's very interesting as it's something Lancaster has hinted at too.

Broadening the pool and depth is critical to our success now and in the future and Leinster have done a lot to enable that over the years. It's something that the club believes is right from a player development and cultural perspective. On speaking, I'm not so convinced on that. Speaking is a complicated one, it's not just about making noise it's about saying the right thing in the right moment, speaking intelligently, listening and speaking with empathy. People talk a lot about Sexton's speech at half time in the 2011 final in Cardiff. The other decisive intervention was a quiet technical conversation between Greg Feek and Mike Ross which course corrected the scrummaging issue that was killing us.

[wixfjord]

Really really good conversation with Seanie and Berch on the42 podcast live from Tullow. Well worth a listen to the full thing if you're a subscriber.

Here's a 10 min free clip -

https://soundcloud.com/user-200743868/r ... ing-career

One of the things I found very interesting is that all of him, Leo and Stu are all in the office each morning before 6AM with the first meeting kicking off at 9AM.

The amount of effort and planning that goes in behind the scenes to making the side the best it can be is incredible.

He also said that Leinster are now actively trying to bring in guys who may not have an orthodox schools background but are athletically gifted.

Some funny stories around Xmas parties and training ground rows too.

Also mentioned how quiet and shy about speaking in a group some of the schools academy guys are and how guys from the youths background tend to talk more. That's very interesting as it's something Lancaster has hinted at too.

Broadening the pool and depth is critical to our success now and in the future and Leinster have done a lot to enable that over the years. It's something that the club believes is right from a player development and cultural perspective. On speaking, I'm not so convinced on that. Speaking is a complicated one, it's not just about making noise it's about saying the right thing in the right moment, speaking intelligently, listening and speaking with empathy. People talk a lot about Sexton's speech at half time in the 2011 final in Cardiff. The other decisive intervention was a quiet technical conversation between Greg Feek and Mike Ross which course corrected the scrummaging issue that was killing us.

Both Stu and SOB have said it publicly now, so it's clearly an issue they've identified.

[Flash Gordon]

Really really good conversation with Seanie and Berch on the42 podcast live from Tullow. Well worth a listen to the full thing if you're a subscriber.

Here's a 10 min free clip -

https://soundcloud.com/user-200743868/r ... ing-career

One of the things I found very interesting is that all of him, Leo and Stu are all in the office each morning before 6AM with the first meeting kicking off at 9AM.

The amount of effort and planning that goes in behind the scenes to making the side the best it can be is incredible.

He also said that Leinster are now actively trying to bring in guys who may not have an orthodox schools background but are athletically gifted.

Some funny stories around Xmas parties and training ground rows too.

Also mentioned how quiet and shy about speaking in a group some of the schools academy guys are and how guys from the youths background tend to talk more. That's very interesting as it's something Lancaster has hinted at too.

Broadening the pool and depth is critical to our success now and in the future and Leinster have done a lot to enable that over the years. It's something that the club believes is right from a player development and cultural perspective. On speaking, I'm not so convinced on that. Speaking is a complicated one, it's not just about making noise it's about saying the right thing in the right moment, speaking intelligently, listening and speaking with empathy. People talk a lot about Sexton's speech at half time in the 2011 final in Cardiff. The other decisive intervention was a quiet technical conversation between Greg Feek and Mike Ross which course corrected the scrummaging issue that was killing us.

Both Stu and SOB have said it publicly now, so it's clearly an issue they've identified.

Not sure Lancaster's comments were meant the way they were reported. The media love having a pop at private school and perceived privilege and do pretty much anything to pursue that agenda. Sexton, O'Driscoll, Ruddock, Ringrose, Kearney who have all been big leadership figures for us are all privately educated. You absolutely do need to to create a culture where people speak and communicate but it's not as simple as "private school lads are shy and state school lads talk".

[wixfjord]

Broadening the pool and depth is critical to our success now and in the future and Leinster have done a lot to enable that over the years. It's something that the club believes is right from a player development and cultural perspective. On speaking, I'm not so convinced on that. Speaking is a complicated one, it's not just about making noise it's about saying the right thing in the right moment, speaking intelligently, listening and speaking with empathy. People talk a lot about Sexton's speech at half time in the 2011 final in Cardiff. The other decisive intervention was a quiet technical conversation between Greg Feek and Mike Ross which course corrected the scrummaging issue that was killing us.

Both Stu and SOB have said it publicly now, so it's clearly an issue they've identified.

Not sure Lancaster's comments were meant the way they were reported. The media love having a pop at private school and perceived privilege and do pretty much anything to pursue that agenda. Sexton, O'Driscoll, Ruddock, Ringrose, Kearney who have all been big leadership figures for us are all privately educated. You absolutely do need to to create a culture where people speak and communicate but it's not as simple as "private school lads are shy and state school lads talk".

You're taking it up as media having a 'pop at private schools' for some reason.

In fact it's two of our current coaching staff saying that the backgrounds of many of our players lends itself to quieter, more introverted players.

Here's Lancaster. It's pretty clear what he's saying - https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-i ... 4-Nov2019/

And SOB literally said in that podcast that his experience is youth players are far more likely to be louder and more confident in speaking than guys from a schools background. Have a listen.

[hugonaut]

Both Stu and SOB have said it publicly now, so it's clearly an issue they've identified.

Not sure Lancaster's comments were meant the way they were reported. The media love having a pop at private school and perceived privilege and do pretty much anything to pursue that agenda. Sexton, O'Driscoll, Ruddock, Ringrose, Kearney who have all been big leadership figures for us are all privately educated. You absolutely do need to to create a culture where people speak and communicate but it's not as simple as "private school lads are shy and state school lads talk".

You're taking it up as media having a 'pop at private schools' for some reason.

In fact it's two of our current coaching staff saying that the backgrounds of many of our players lends itself to quieter, more introverted players.

Here's Lancaster. It's pretty clear what he's saying - https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-i ... 4-Nov2019/

And SOB literally said in that podcast that his experience is youth players are far more likely to be louder and more confident in speaking than guys from a schools background. Have a listen.

It's an interesting point. I reckon a large part of it is down to schools players being trained by their teachers and the training, preparation, playing, everything around it etc. taking place in the school environment. It is essentially part of school. Heirarchy and especially discipline is a huge deal in school.

On the other side, the youths lads are training down at their rugby club in the evenings with coaches who are club members. It's totally separate from school. You're not going to see your coach at 9am next morning in Geography or at lunch-break for lineouts.

The difference between training with a senior cup panel in school and then the following year with an U19 team in the club is the closest I have experienced myself. Bear in mind that this is neither today nor yesterday! You're training with most of the same lads, but it's a completely different atmosphere between the two. There's less pressure, there's more crack, but on the other side of the equation, there's no positive peer pressure, nobody is doing extras before or after training, very little time under tension, little unity of focus apart from matches etc.

[ormond lad]

Not sure Lancaster's comments were meant the way they were reported. The media love having a pop at private school and perceived privilege and do pretty much anything to pursue that agenda. Sexton, O'Driscoll, Ruddock, Ringrose, Kearney who have all been big leadership figures for us are all privately educated. You absolutely do need to to create a culture where people speak and communicate but it's not as simple as "private school lads are shy and state school lads talk".

You're taking it up as media having a 'pop at private schools' for some reason.

In fact it's two of our current coaching staff saying that the backgrounds of many of our players lends itself to quieter, more introverted players.

Here's Lancaster. It's pretty clear what he's saying - https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-i ... 4-Nov2019/

And SOB literally said in that podcast that his experience is youth players are far more likely to be louder and more confident in speaking than guys from a schools background. Have a listen.

It's an interesting point. I reckon a large part of it is down to schools players being trained by their teachers and the training, preparation, playing, everything around it etc. taking place in the school environment. It is essentially part of school. Heirarchy and especially discipline is a huge deal in school.

On the other side, the youths lads are training down at their rugby club in the evenings with coaches who are club members. It's totally separate from school. You're not going to see your coach at 9am next morning in Geography or at lunch-break for lineouts.

The difference between training with a senior cup panel in school and then the following year with an U19 team in the club is the closest I have experienced myself. Bear in mind that this is neither today nor yesterday! You're training with most of the same lads, but it's a completely different atmosphere between the two. There's less pressure, there's more crack, but on the other side of the equation, there's no positive peer pressure, nobody is doing extras before or after training, very little time under tension, little unity of focus apart from matches etc.

Are the top players in schools coached by their teachers though? Players who go on to make academy and pro rugby generally play 2 years junior schools cup and 2/3 senior and those sides are overwhelmingly coached by non teachers/outsiders to the school. are they not?
But rest of it is right. I think there was something about Michaels and how many they had progress to pro rugby in such a relative short time where Andy Skehan spoke about how they train and build towards games with players used to early mornings, the reviews, the medicals that the step up to professional is far easier than other places.

Its where Leinster and other provinces are going in different ways. The top club players will get some of what the schools players do through far more provincially coached sessions on top of the 2 sessions a week they do in their club. Munster have a provincial squad team compete in the pre christmas schools cup group stage. this is on top of the work done with provincial squads in the summer time. players get extra training etc and games while playing for club and then after christmas when the club competition steps up to munster wide they have got extra training and can just focus on that.

[hugonaut]

It's an interesting point. I reckon a large part of it is down to schools players being trained by their teachers and the training, preparation, playing, everything around it etc. taking place in the school environment. It is essentially part of school. Heirarchy and especially discipline is a huge deal in school.

On the other side, the youths lads are training down at their rugby club in the evenings with coaches who are club members. It's totally separate from school. You're not going to see your coach at 9am next morning in Geography or at lunch-break for lineouts.

The difference between training with a senior cup panel in school and then the following year with an U19 team in the club is the closest I have experienced myself. Bear in mind that this is neither today nor yesterday! You're training with most of the same lads, but it's a completely different atmosphere between the two. There's less pressure, there's more crack, but on the other side of the equation, there's no positive peer pressure, nobody is doing extras before or after training, very little time under tension, little unity of focus apart from matches etc.

Are the top players in schools coached by their teachers though? Players who go on to make academy and pro rugby generally play 2 years junior schools cup and 2/3 senior and those sides are overwhelmingly coached by non teachers/outsiders to the school. are they not?
But rest of it is right. I think there was something about Michaels and how many they had progress to pro rugby in such a relative short time where Andy Skehan spoke about how they train and build towards games with players used to early mornings, the reviews, the medicals that the step up to professional is far easier than other places.

Its where Leinster and other provinces are going in different ways. The top club players will get some of what the schools players do through far more provincially coached sessions on top of the 2 sessions a week they do in their club. Munster have a provincial squad team compete in the pre christmas schools cup group stage. this is on top of the work done with provincial squads in the summer time. players get extra training etc and games while playing for club and then after christmas when the club competition steps up to munster wide they have got extra training and can just focus on that.

I don't know the story across the board, OL. Different schools have different set-ups and some of the time things evolve to suit the personalities involved.

For example, I don't know if Johne Murphy has any involvement in academics in Newbridge College. I'm not saying he does or not, I literally don't know. I know that Sean Skehan is on the faculty in Terenure and takes classes as well as coaching. No doubt that some of the guys who coach cup teams are coaches first and teachers second, but they're still teachers. They're employed by the school, they're qualified teachers, they teach classes, they're there all the time. Greg McWilliams was a teacher in St Michaels when he was coaching them. Andy Skehan was a teacher in Michaels as well as being DOR – I think he is still DOR, but not teaching anymore and doing more consultancy work for other teams.

There are a couple of general points I'd like to make on the subject. Firstly, coaching is teaching ... a lot of the time a good coach makes a good teacher. Secondly, teaching offers a very stable base with regards to salary, holidays, pensions etc., something that being a freelance rugby coach badly lacks. That's one of the reasons it's not unusual for guys to sort of move sideways into academic teaching when they are primarily interested in coaching. There has been a long history of that!

[ormond lad]

It's an interesting point. I reckon a large part of it is down to schools players being trained by their teachers and the training, preparation, playing, everything around it etc. taking place in the school environment. It is essentially part of school. Heirarchy and especially discipline is a huge deal in school.

On the other side, the youths lads are training down at their rugby club in the evenings with coaches who are club members. It's totally separate from school. You're not going to see your coach at 9am next morning in Geography or at lunch-break for lineouts.

The difference between training with a senior cup panel in school and then the following year with an U19 team in the club is the closest I have experienced myself. Bear in mind that this is neither today nor yesterday! You're training with most of the same lads, but it's a completely different atmosphere between the two. There's less pressure, there's more crack, but on the other side of the equation, there's no positive peer pressure, nobody is doing extras before or after training, very little time under tension, little unity of focus apart from matches etc.

Are the top players in schools coached by their teachers though? Players who go on to make academy and pro rugby generally play 2 years junior schools cup and 2/3 senior and those sides are overwhelmingly coached by non teachers/outsiders to the school. are they not?
But rest of it is right. I think there was something about Michaels and how many they had progress to pro rugby in such a relative short time where Andy Skehan spoke about how they train and build towards games with players used to early mornings, the reviews, the medicals that the step up to professional is far easier than other places.

Its where Leinster and other provinces are going in different ways. The top club players will get some of what the schools players do through far more provincially coached sessions on top of the 2 sessions a week they do in their club. Munster have a provincial squad team compete in the pre christmas schools cup group stage. this is on top of the work done with provincial squads in the summer time. players get extra training etc and games while playing for club and then after christmas when the club competition steps up to munster wide they have got extra training and can just focus on that.

I don't know the story across the board, OL. Different schools have different set-ups and some of the time things evolve to suit the personalities involved.

For example, I don't know if Johne Murphy has any involvement in academics in Newbridge College. I'm not saying he does or not, I literally don't know. I know that Sean Skehan is on the faculty in Terenure and takes classes as well as coaching. No doubt that some of the guys who coach cup teams are coaches first and teachers second, but they're still teachers. They're employed by the school, they're qualified teachers, they teach classes, they're there all the time. Greg McWilliams was a teacher in St Michaels when he was coaching them. Andy Skehan was a teacher in Michaels as well as being DOR – I think he is still DOR, but not teaching anymore and doing more consultancy work for other teams.

There are a couple of general points I'd like to make on the subject. Firstly, coaching is teaching ... a lot of the time a good coach makes a good teacher. Secondly, teaching offers a very stable base with regards to salary, holidays, pensions etc., something that being a freelance rugby coach badly lacks. That's one of the reasons it's not unusual for guys to sort of move sideways into academic teaching when they are primarily interested in coaching. There has been a long history of that!

Thats very fair and schools across the board will be quite different but from my experience of reffing schools games. In Leinster yes in many schools teachers will be involved but mainly it will be teams down the social levels, assisted by recent past pupils in some cases.
Totally agree coaching is teaching and long history of players moving in that field is right
Trevor Hogan was going that way before getting the Leinster talent coach role and getting into Leinster set up.

[Dave Cahill]

A teacher employed by the school has to be in charge, nominally at least, for safeguarding reasons

[Flash Gordon]

Both Stu and SOB have said it publicly now, so it's clearly an issue they've identified.

Not sure Lancaster's comments were meant the way they were reported. The media love having a pop at private school and perceived privilege and do pretty much anything to pursue that agenda. Sexton, O'Driscoll, Ruddock, Ringrose, Kearney who have all been big leadership figures for us are all privately educated. You absolutely do need to to create a culture where people speak and communicate but it's not as simple as "private school lads are shy and state school lads talk".

You're taking it up as media having a 'pop at private schools' for some reason.

In fact it's two of our current coaching staff saying that the backgrounds of many of our players lends itself to quieter, more introverted players.

Here's Lancaster. It's pretty clear what he's saying - https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-i ... 4-Nov2019/

And SOB literally said in that podcast that his experience is youth players are far more likely to be louder and more confident in speaking than guys from a schools background. Have a listen.

Pretty much the whole piece is about introverts being comfortable speaking out, that's personality profile which you're born with.

He does refer briefly to the schools and the system between talking about natural extroverted leaders like Johnny (who went to a private school) and more introverted younger players like Robbie Henshaw (who didn't go to private school) to say:

" The strength of the schools system in Leinster is there for everyone to see. It’s amazing what it creates in terms of the competition, the talent pool, but there’s no doubt that part of independent thinking and player ownership and leadership is by doing things on your own, not having coaches to spoon-feed you all the time.

I’m not saying they do that in the schools system."

He mentions getting people to think for themselves whether they go to Leinster or University - college teachers say the same thing, kids have been drilled through a memory test and can struggle to adapt to thinking for themselves.

2 important reasons for people not speaking out or being anxious about public speaking are personality profile and high intelligence (smart people think a lot and sometimes doubt themselves).

Lancaster is right in coaching players to speak more and he talks about creating the conditions for people to feel comfortable doing that. It's the same in any high performance organisation, diversity isn't just black or white, gay or straight, male or female it's also personality profile.

The narrative going around now amongst certain journalists is that Leinster are a bit soft or are weak leadership wise because many went to private school which is just not true. I'd be interested in the view of the French players after last weekend on their Leinster based international counterparts.

The central point is that we need more diversity, we need more leadership and that the system needs to develop both and coach both, which most people would agree with. That's really the focus of what he says and what the coaches want.

[D4surfer]

Not sure Lancaster's comments were meant the way they were reported. The media love having a pop at private school and perceived privilege and do pretty much anything to pursue that agenda. Sexton, O'Driscoll, Ruddock, Ringrose, Kearney who have all been big leadership figures for us are all privately educated. You absolutely do need to to create a culture where people speak and communicate but it's not as simple as "private school lads are shy and state school lads talk".

You're taking it up as media having a 'pop at private schools' for some reason.

In fact it's two of our current coaching staff saying that the backgrounds of many of our players lends itself to quieter, more introverted players.

Here's Lancaster. It's pretty clear what he's saying - https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-i ... 4-Nov2019/

And SOB literally said in that podcast that his experience is youth players are far more likely to be louder and more confident in speaking than guys from a schools background. Have a listen.

Pretty much the whole piece is about introverts being comfortable speaking out, that's personality profile which you're born with.

He does refer briefly to the schools and the system between talking about natural extroverted leaders like Johnny (who went to a private school) and more introverted younger players like Robbie Henshaw (who didn't go to private school) to say:

" The strength of the schools system in Leinster is there for everyone to see. It’s amazing what it creates in terms of the competition, the talent pool, but there’s no doubt that part of independent thinking and player ownership and leadership is by doing things on your own, not having coaches to spoon-feed you all the time.

I’m not saying they do that in the schools system."

He mentions getting people to think for themselves whether they go to Leinster or University - college teachers say the same thing, kids have been drilled through a memory test and can struggle to adapt to thinking for themselves.

2 important reasons for people not speaking out or being anxious about public speaking are personality profile and high intelligence (smart people think a lot and sometimes doubt themselves).

Lancaster is right in coaching players to speak more and he talks about creating the conditions for people to feel comfortable doing that. It's the same in any high performance organisation, diversity isn't just black or white, gay or straight, male or female it's also personality profile.

The narrative going around now amongst certain journalists is that Leinster are a bit soft or are weak leadership wise because many went to private school which is just not true. I'd be interested in the view of the French players after last weekend on their Leinster based international counterparts.

The central point is that we need more diversity, we need more leadership and that the system needs to develop both and coach both, which most people would agree with. That's really the focus of what he says and what the coaches want.

Apparently, the fear of public speaking is greater than the fear of death. If that’s the case, then most people would prefer to be in the coffin dead, than standing beside it, giving the eulogy.